Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Research project...

Expand Messages
  • James Winkler
    Ok... so, like, I get this email from a fella in Calontir who has a need to find out some info on trestle tables... with a specific request for 13th/14th c.
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Ok... so, like, I get this email from a fella' in Calontir who has a need to find out some info on trestle tables...  with a specific request for 13th/14th c. models.
       
      I have *some* info... mostly from illuminations...
       
      What I'm asking this list is... if you have any good examples or sources of info, could ya' pass em' along?  I'd like to be able to give this fella' a bit more that the wee bit I've scrapped up in my own library.  [Darn... I wish those 13th/14th c. folks took better care of their stuff so we had some physical examples...]
       
      Thanks -
      Chas.
    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      I ve got a photo of a trestle table that I saw at Hampton Court ( and somewhere esle also, but I don t remember where the second one was. ) So it s not hard
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        I've got a photo of a trestle table that I saw at Hampton Court ( and somewhere esle also, but I don't remember where the second one was. ) So it's not hard core documentation....but in my book it's acceptable.

        It was a basic table, but the neat part was the way the legs attached to the table top.

        Sliding dove tailed joints on the top of the leg...

        you can kinda see it on this photo.

        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/photos/view/8f9d?b=8

        the leg decoration is my design ( not based on any specific item )

        there are a couple more pictures of my table in in the group's photo area ( they are a litle blurry, but you should be able to get the idea.

        I cheated a little and build a framework under the table top that made the dovetailed joint,
        A 3/4" table top with a 2x4 framework to both form the dovtaild and give the top a thicker beefier look.
         
        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

        Aude Aliquid Dignum
        ' Dare Something Worthy '


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: James Winkler <jrwinkler@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 11:54:48 AM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Research project...

        Ok... so, like, I get this email from a fella' in Calontir who has a need to find out some info on trestle tables...  with a specific request for 13th/14th c. models.
         
        I have *some* info... mostly from illuminations. ..
         
        What I'm asking this list is... if you have any good examples or sources of info, could ya' pass em' along?  I'd like to be able to give this fella' a bit more that the wee bit I've scrapped up in my own library.  [Darn... I wish those 13th/14th c. folks took better care of their stuff so we had some physical examples...]
         
        Thanks -
        Chas.


        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Bruce S. R. Lee
        They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in Before the Mast - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own ;-) ). Through
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
          Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
          ;-) ). Through mortices to attach the legs. So that's early 1500's.

          regards
          Brusi of Orkney
          Rowany/Lochac

          At 03:54 AM 1/01/2007, you wrote:

          >Ok... so, like, I get this email from a fella' in Calontir who has a
          >need to find out some info on trestle tables... with a specific
          >request for 13th/14th c. models.
          >
          >I have *some* info... mostly from illuminations...
          >
          >What I'm asking this list is... if you have any good examples or
          >sources of info, could ya' pass em' along? I'd like to be able to
          >give this fella' a bit more that the wee bit I've scrapped up in my
          >own library. [Darn... I wish those 13th/14th c. folks took better
          >care of their stuff so we had some physical examples...]
          >
          >Thanks -
          >Chas.
        • Haraldr Bassi (yahoogroups)
          James Winkler wrote: {snip} ... Dude... those people were forward looking conservators compared to the 9th/10thC vikings... the Viking s way of preserving
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            James Winkler wrote:
            {snip}

            > bit more that the wee bit I've scrapped up in my own library. [Darn... I
            > wish those 13th/14th c. folks took better care of their stuff so we had some
            > physical examples...]

            Dude... those people were forward looking conservators compared to the 9th/10thC
            vikings... the Viking's way of preserving stuff for us was usually to burn it at
            sea as an offering to the gods, figuring the gods would tell us in the future
            what things looked like if we needed to know, or something like that... People
            doing 13/14C don't routinely make clothing from rags/scraps of cloth that were
            pulled out of the strakes of a buried ship, the rags having been soaked in tar
            and used as caulking. We extrapolate so much from so little because compared to
            the plethora of info available later. Granted, 13/14C isn't as easy as the late
            1500s, where you can practically pull a patent office filing for some things.

            Haraldr
          • AlbionWood
            I m positive the 13th and 14th century people took perfectly good care of their stuff - it was those damn barbarians of the 16th and 17th centuries that
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm positive the 13th and 14th century people took perfectly good care
              of their stuff - it was those damn barbarians of the 16th and 17th
              centuries that wrecked it all.

              As for a 13th/14th c. trestle table - good luck. Painters and
              illuminators were apparently a lot more impressed by cloth draperies
              than by the furniture under them... I do have a closeup of a painting
              from the Musee des Arts decoratifs that I think might be very late 14th,
              in which you can see the front of a tripod trestle. The
              trestle-to-table connection is, of course, obscured by drapery. If you
              find anything better let me know, I've been searching for years.

              Colin
            • Haraldr Bassi (yahoogroups)
              First you have to define which kind of trestle table you are looking for. The same name is used to refer to tables with connected pillar understructure like
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 1, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                First you have to define which kind of trestle table you are looking for. The
                same name is used to refer to tables with connected pillar understructure like
                the link that was posted in response to your note as well as to refer to the
                style best described as a three legged saw horse.

                The 13th/14th seems to be more likely to be the 3 legged horse with planks for a
                table, while the more traditional style of a connected understructure seems to
                be more likely 15th/16th. In addition to those basic styles, there are tables
                that are large slabs with four legs, one in each corner. That basic table seems
                to have found life almost through all of period.

                If we look at the 3 legged trestle, we can further divide the styles by the
                arrangement of the three legs. One style, a distinctively later (13/14/15thC)
                period style features a tall trapezoidal end board cut to make a pair of legs
                attached to a cross bar, often with some form of sliding joint for disassembly,
                and a solitary leg square and perpendicular from the far end of the cross bar.

                The earlier style three legged trestle will feature three individual legs. Two
                attached to the ends of the cross bar, splayed outwards on the same side of the
                cross bar with an opposing leg angled out from the center of the cross bar.

                The advantage of this style is that they are easier to setup on slightly uneven
                ground than a four legged trestle. The other advantage is there are less legs to
                interfere with the people using the table. Our camp uses the three separate leg
                style trestles at both indoor events as well as camping events. We will block up
                the legs with scrap wood to make the tops of the trestles level and and add
                additional blocks on top of the cross bars to make the tops parallel with each
                other.

                For table tops we have used 3 planks of 2x10s, 1/2" 2'x4' plywood, a 2'x4'
                plywood solid core hardwood door and for dining, the same trestles have been
                used with a 2'x6.5' solid core door. The point is whatever slab we have
                available to use, we use depending on whether we plan to be setup for two weeks
                or for a few hours. The lesser time periods, we use easier to transport slabs.
                If the table is being used as a work bench, we use the 2x10 slabs.

                Our legs are simple closet rod tapered with a drawknife and fit into round
                tapered holes we made in cedar 4x4x24" long cross bars made using a tapered bit
                in a hand brace. Having done it that way, I'd say it would be easier to make the
                ends of the legs round using a drawknife or doweling bit in a brace and make a
                regular round hole in the cross bars. My original prototype featured a basic
                square mortise and even though the prototype was simple 1x3 for the legs and
                5/4x3 for the cross bar and the mortise was only 1/2" x1" it still was able to
                hold my 340lb (at the time) body up.

                The later, more gothic style, end trapezoid style three legged trestle is really
                not well suited to outdoor use. The only time we've had a table come down was
                that style of trestle as they just tended to slide down the hills at Pennsic and
                collapse.

                If you are looking for later styles, the fixed style connected pedestal style
                trestle table was done in many ways by many cultures over many years.

                Haraldr

                James Winkler wrote:
                > Ok... so, like, I get this email from a fella' in Calontir who has a need to
                > find out some info on trestle tables... with a specific request for
                > 13th/14th c. models.
                >
                > I have *some* info... mostly from illuminations...
                >
                > What I'm asking this list is... if you have any good examples or sources of
                > info, could ya' pass em' along? I'd like to be able to give this fella' a
                > bit more that the wee bit I've scrapped up in my own library. [Darn... I
                > wish those 13th/14th c. folks took better care of their stuff so we had some
                > physical examples...]
                >
                > Thanks - Chas.
              • msgilliandurham
                ... A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn t get it for me because it
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                  <bsrlee2@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
                  > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
                  > ;-) ).

                  A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
                  book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
                  me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
                  supply it.

                  If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
                  that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.

                  Thanks,

                  Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham
                • JBRMM266@aol.com
                  The Mary Rose . . . I saw many of the artifacts on display in a museum in Portsmouth, VA. Fascinating. Also a bit scary, some of them. There was an
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The Mary Rose . . .
                     
                    I saw many of the artifacts on display in a museum in Portsmouth, VA.  Fascinating.
                     
                    Also a bit scary, some of them. There was an antipersonnel gun with a rectangular bore, that they found loaded - with cube-shaped shot.  It was called a "hailshot piece" and must have been prone to disintegration . . .
                     
                    Donal 
                     
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: msgilliandurham@...
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 9:05 AM
                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Before the Mast and ILL question

                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                    <bsrlee2@...> wrote:
                    
                    > > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in' > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own > ;-) ).
                    A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't supply it. If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham

                    Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
                  • Helen Schultz
                    Gillian: I ve not tried to ILL the book, since I bought a copy of it at Pennsic this past year. It VERY worth the $100 for it!! The book is huge and full of
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gillian:
                       
                      I've not tried to ILL the book, since I bought a copy of it at Pennsic this past year.  It VERY worth the $100 for it!!  The book is huge and full of the most interesting bits and pieces <grin>, not only woodworking stuff, but all sorts of information about clothing, accessories, locations of people, etc.
                       
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn, OL
                      Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana)  http://narrental.home.comcast.net
                      Middle Kingdom
                      http://meisterin.katarina.home.comcast.net
                       
                      "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -- Cicero
                       
                      "The danger in life is not that we aim too high and miss.
                      The problem is that we aim too low and hit the mark."  -- Michaelangelo
                       
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                       

                      --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                      <bsrlee2@... > wrote:
                      >
                      > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
                      > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
                      > ;-) ).

                      A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
                      book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
                      me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
                      supply it.

                      If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
                      that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.

                      Thanks,

                      Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham

                    • Beth and Bob Matney
                      Get it from David Brown Books (US) 1-800-791-9354. They are selling it for $80. Currently they have a few slightly damaged copies for around $20 plus shipping.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Get it from David Brown Books (US) 1-800-791-9354. They are selling it for
                        $80. Currently they have a few slightly damaged copies for around $20 plus
                        shipping.
                        http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/36367

                        I paid full price for my copy when it came out and consider it well worth
                        the money.

                        Warning: this book dealer is highly addictive and damaging to your pocket
                        book. (a very satisfied customer).

                        Beth Matney

                        At 08:05 AM 1/2/2007, you wrote:
                        >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                        ><bsrlee2@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
                        > > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
                        > > ;-) ).
                        >
                        >A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
                        >book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
                        >me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
                        >supply it.
                        >
                        >If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
                        >that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.
                        >
                        >Thanks,
                        >
                        >Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham
                      • maf@gleichen.ca
                        I ordered a copy through Blackwell and it was under 40 pounds with shipping. It s a great book worth the money but I tried for 2 months and never did find a
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I ordered a copy through Blackwell and it was under 40 pounds with shipping. It's a great book worth the money but I tried for 2 months and never did find a source to ILL it through.
                           
                          Mark
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:05 AM
                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Before the Mast and ILL question

                          --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                          <bsrlee2@... > wrote:
                          >
                          > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
                          > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
                          > ;-) ).

                          A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
                          book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
                          me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
                          supply it.

                          If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
                          that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.

                          Thanks,

                          Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham

                        • Liedtke Goetz
                          ... DBBC currently has a special for Before the Mast: Life and Death aboard the Mary Rose and Geoff Egan s Material culture in London in an age of
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:

                            > Get it from David Brown Books (US) 1-800-791-9354. They are selling
                            > it for
                            > $80. Currently they have a few slightly damaged copies for around $20
                            > plus
                            > shipping.
                            > http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/36367

                            DBBC currently has a special for "Before the Mast: Life and Death
                            aboard the Mary Rose" and Geoff Egan's "Material culture in London in
                            an age of transition: Tudor and Stuart period finds c. 1450 - c. 1700
                            from Excavations at Riverside sites in Southwark" for a combined total
                            of $100.

                            Goetz Liedtke


                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                          • Bruce S. R. Lee
                            In Australia the major libraries will photocopy the relevant pages of their books if they don t want to let the original out of their possession - I obtained
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In Australia the major libraries will photocopy the relevant pages of
                              their books if they don't want to let the original out of their
                              possession - I obtained an article from the 'Salzburgerjahrbuch'(sp?)
                              on the Hatra ballista this way, but they forgot the photographic
                              plates which took me years to get copies of.

                              If you want the page with the trestle details I can probably wrestle
                              it onto my scanner & e-mail to a safe account. Come to think of it, I
                              should make a set or two to take on my next camping event.

                              regards
                              Brusi of Orkney
                              Rowany/Lochac
                              Sydney/Australia
                              At 01:05 AM 3/01/2007, you wrote:
                              >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                              ><bsrlee2@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
                              > > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
                              > > ;-) ).
                              >
                              >A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
                              >book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
                              >me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
                              >supply it.
                              >
                              >If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
                              >that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.
                              >
                              >Thanks,
                              >
                              >Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.