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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Capstan Table

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  • kjworz@comcast.net
    I THINK the reference is to.... The paradigm sticklers have argued that the most feely available hardwood available in North America, Red Oak, has no real
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 12, 2006
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      I THINK the reference is to....

      The paradigm sticklers have argued that the most feely available hardwood available in North America, Red Oak, has no real European conterpart, so using it in period furniture in insufficiently authentic. North American White Oak is much closer to European counterparts as to be nigh indistinguishable and thus preferable.

      The counter argument is that it is a relatively inexpensive decent hardwood, available at Home Depot if your are desperate, and mind your own business Period Fascist!.... Oh, wait, you are an A&S judge? Apologies, M'Lord, and might I add you look very handsome in that hat. Cow Horns on a helmet is so stylish and suave. Of COURSE I used the term 'Fascist' in the warmest and most cuddly way. Can I fetch you an Ale?

      I am lukewarm to both sides and always figured a medieval craftsman used the locally available wood whose properties best matched his requirements and pocketbook. Red Oak doesn't offend me, but the same project in White Oak impresses me. The same project in a English Brown Oak, taken from salvage barn beams that are 400 years old or older REALLY impresses me, but how often is that the tie-breaker, all other things being equal?

      --
      -Chris Schwartz
      Silver Spring, MD


      -------------- Original message ----------------------
      From: "gunwaldt" <gunwaldt@...>
      > > Steve Vaught wrote:
      > > As long as it is not red oak
      >
      > > It appears that I'm on the outside of an inside joke . . . .
      >
      > I'm standing there with ya, scratchin' me head.
      >
      > Gunwaldt
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • AlbionWood
      Yes, it s an inside joke. And, like all jokes, it isn t funny when you explain it. My personal objection to RO isn t so much that it s less authentic (a weak
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 12, 2006
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        Yes, it's an inside joke. And, like all jokes, it isn't funny when you
        explain it.

        My personal objection to RO isn't so much that it's less authentic (a
        weak argument) as that it isn't a good choice for most projects. The
        working properties of RO are more like Douglas Fir than anything else:
        it is coarse-grained and splintery, difficult to carve well, doesn't
        take details, moves a lot in service (more than WO), etc. Its only
        redeeming features on my view are wide availability and price. With a
        little more effort and not much more money, you can get White Oak which,
        to my eye, is a lot prettier and a lot better to work with. (Still
        tough to carve, though. After this throne project is done, I hope I
        never have to chisel kiln-dried WO again.) If you are going to the
        trouble to make something nice enough to merit a hardwood, why settle
        for the crappiest hardwood on the rack?

        There. See how funny that is?
        8-)

        Colin


        kjworz@... wrote:
        > I THINK the reference is to....
        >
        > The paradigm sticklers have argued that the most feely available hardwood available in North America, Red Oak, has no real European conterpart, so using it in period furniture in insufficiently authentic. North American White Oak is much closer to European counterparts as to be nigh indistinguishable and thus preferable.
        >
        >
      • JBRMM266@aol.com
        Thank yew ... From: kjworz@comcast.net To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com; medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:04 AM Subject: Re:
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 12, 2006
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           Thank yew
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: kjworz@...
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com; medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:04 AM
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Capstan Table

          I THINK the reference is to....
          
          The paradigm sticklers have argued that the most feely available hardwood 
          available in North America, Red Oak, has no real European conterpart, so using 
          it in period furniture in insufficiently authentic.  North American White Oak is 
          much closer to European counterparts as to be nigh indistinguishable and thus 
          preferable.  
          
          --
          -Chris Schwartz
          Silver Spring, MD
          
          
          
           

          Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
        • Steve Vaught
          Oh I do not mock you. Red Oak for one isn t period, and is a pain to work with. The open grain structure makes it hard to finish and rough to work with. I
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 12, 2006
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            Oh I do not mock you.  Red Oak for one isn't period, and is a pain to work with.  The open grain structure makes it hard to finish and rough to work with.  I just finished a glastonbury with quarter sawn white oak seat and back supports, ash arms and walnut seat and back boards.
             
            I could easily crank out a bunch in red oak purchased from home depot, reverse the pattern so the top is wider than the seat and sell them at a reasonable price but I just can't bring myself to do it.  I may contemplate making them in maple.
             
            Steve
            President
            Lord Grey's Retinue
            www.lordgreys.com

            AlbionWood <albionwood@...> wrote:
            A kindred spirit!  Or do you mock me, sirrah?  :-D

            Colin


            Steve Vaught wrote:
            As long as it is not red oak
             
            Steve

            Bill McNutt <mcnutt@pobox. com> wrote:
            Not the first thing, I’m afraid.  I ran into it on one of the tech blogs I follow.  Any anything made out of solid oak is appropriate for this forum, right?
            Will




            Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

          • Avery Austringer
            In Medieval Europe they didn t have red oak. (Technically they didn t have American white oak either, but what they had looks so much like American white oak
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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              In Medieval Europe they didn't have red oak. (Technically they didn't
              have American white oak either, but what they had looks so much like
              American white oak as to be pretty trivial.)

              Avery

              > It appears that I'm on the outside of an inside joke . . . .

              >> A kindred spirit! Or do you mock me, sirrah? :-D

              >>> As long as it is not red oak

              >>>> Not the first thing, I´m afraid. I ran into it on one of the tech
              >>>> blogs I follow. Any anything made out of solid oak is appropriate
              >>>> for this forum, right?
            • AlbionWood
              Definitely a kindred spirit, I see. One of my goals for next year is to work with something other than white oak for a change. I m thinking Birch might be
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                Definitely a kindred spirit, I see.

                One of my goals for next year is to work with something other than white
                oak for a change. I'm thinking Birch might be nice.

                Colin


                Steve Vaught wrote:
                > Oh I do not mock you. Red Oak for one isn't period, and is a pain to
                > work with. The open grain structure makes it hard to finish and rough
                > to work with.
              • Eric
                You might want to try Ash too. Nice stuff to work with, though I haven t tried carving it yet, and it s at the lighter end of the hardwood spectrum. Eirikr
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                  You might want to try Ash too. Nice stuff to work with, though I
                  haven't tried carving it yet, and it's at the lighter end of the
                  hardwood spectrum.

                  Eirikr
                  Ashgrove, Barony of Angels, Caid

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Definitely a kindred spirit, I see.
                  >
                  > One of my goals for next year is to work with something other than
                  white
                  > oak for a change. I'm thinking Birch might be nice.
                  >
                  > Colin
                  >
                • AlbionWood
                  I ve used ash quite a lot, especially for beds, where the stiffness-to-weight ratio really counts. I like it a lot. It carves pretty well too. I especially
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                    I've used ash quite a lot, especially for beds, where the
                    stiffness-to-weight ratio really counts. I like it a lot. It carves
                    pretty well too. I especially like the heartwood, which often displays
                    some interesting color variation, but is hard to find as most people
                    want the pure-white stuff (which I find bland). It does take stain
                    quite well.

                    It can be tricky stuff to plane, though. Grain reversals on the faces
                    cause a lot of tearout. Need really sharp tools. (What else is new!)

                    Colin


                    Eric wrote:
                    > You might want to try Ash too. Nice stuff to work with, though I
                    > haven't tried carving it yet, and it's at the lighter end of the
                    > hardwood spectrum.
                    >
                    >
                  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                    I ve made all my crossbow stocks from white ash. It is as hard as oak but rots and stain if it is put on wet ground. James Cunningham
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 13, 2006
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                      I've made all my crossbow stocks from white ash.  It is as hard as oak but rots and stain if it is put on wet ground.
                       
                      James Cunningham
                    • gunwaldt
                      ... But the explaination lets us unworthy rabble feel a little more included. Thank you for taking the time. Gunwaldt
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 18, 2006
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                        Colin wrote:
                        > Yes, it's an inside joke. And, like all jokes,
                        > it isn't funny when you explain it.

                        But the explaination lets us unworthy rabble feel a little more
                        included. Thank you for taking the time.

                        Gunwaldt
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