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Re: chip carving

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  • vinlandar
    Conal, I am not sure if I am the Charles you were addressing in this post, but while i would thuroughly enjoy meeting you folks, I will not be going to
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
      Conal,

      I am not sure if I am the Charles you were addressing in this
      post, but while i would thuroughly enjoy meeting you folks, I will
      not be going to Pennsic.

      I did just finish a wood chest though, a modification of the six
      board chest inspired by the mastermyr chest. I didn't do the tongue
      and groove joint on the ends of the bottom board to the sides, but I
      did angle the sides inward toward the top at 5 degrees, and the top I
      made out of 2x6 which I rounded heavily at the edges. I fastened the
      boards together using screws which I countersunk and filled the screw
      holes with wood plugs. I ended up using leather hinges, due to time
      constraints. This chest was pine, as it was a learning piece. The
      next one I would like to make out of a nice hardwood. I was
      pleasantly surprised, that 5 degree angle on the ends makes it very
      tip-resistant when one is sitting near an end.

      -Charlie



      --- In medievalsawdust@y..., Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@y...>
      wrote:
      > so...
      >
      > Who's going to Pennsic?
      >
      > Do we want to get together and
      > put faces and names together...?
      >
      >
      > Charles, you have the most central
      > camp, would you like be tha meting place?
      >
      >
      > Conal
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
      > http://health.yahoo.com
    • vinlandar
      Thanks Bob, I have done so, and that s a great site! I am going to look around to check out his books and videos. They look like what I need. Thanks again!
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
        Thanks Bob, I have done so, and that's a great site! I am going to
        look around to check out his books and videos. They look like what I
        need.

        Thanks again!

        -Charlie


        --- In medievalsawdust@y..., "ragnarironhead" <ragnarironhead@y...>
        wrote:
        > Charlie,
        >
        > Check out http://www.chipcarving.com - my Dad's a woodcarver and
        I've
        > seen this guy's articles in some magazines. Looks like a good
        > starting point.
        >
        > Bob
      • Dan Baker
        I will be there, twice in fact. ... -- YIS, Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer Privateer to the Midrealm Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw ...Take time to dance in
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
          I will be there, twice in fact.

          >
          >so...
          >
          >Who's going to Pennsic?
          >
          > Do we want to get together and
          >put faces and names together...?
          >
          >
          >Charles, you have the most central
          >camp, would you like be tha meting place?
          >
          >
          > Conal
          >
          >
          >__________________________________________________
          >Do You Yahoo!?
          >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
          >http://health.yahoo.com


          --
          YIS,

          Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
          Privateer to the Midrealm

          Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
          ...Take time to dance in the rain...

          _________________________________________________________________
          MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
          http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
        • James Winkler
          I am... oops... YOU already knew that... Anyway... my pavillion could serve as the meeting place. When would folks like to get together? Chas. ... From:
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
            I am...  oops... YOU already knew that... 
             
            Anyway...  my pavillion could serve as the meeting place.  When would folks like to get together?  
             
            Chas.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:42 AM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Re: chip carving
             
            so...

            Who's going to Pennsic?

               Do we want to get together and
            put faces and names together...?


            Charles, you have the most central
            camp, would you like be tha meting place?


                              Conal


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          • Beth and Bob Matney
            What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly reference on the history...
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 4, 2007
              What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
              that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
              reference on the history...

              Thanks,
              Beth

              On page 22 of
              Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
              Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
              [England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600

              "The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
              Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
              well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
              derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
              decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
              widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
              by Germanic troops in the Roman army."

              footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
              Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
              [London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130
            • Tracy Swanson
              Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar, a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just been washed. A wooden
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 4, 2007
                Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar, a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the wet clothing, then the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the roller. The mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By present her with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your intentions through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of the love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest dates.
                 
                In Magical Service,
                Malaki
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00 PM
                To: woodworking
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving

                What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
                that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
                reference on the history...

                Thanks,
                Beth

                On page 22 of
                Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
                Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
                [England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600

                "The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
                well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
                derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
                decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
                widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
                by Germanic troops in the Roman army."

                footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
                Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
                [London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130

              • Beth and Bob Matney
                I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples.. (lots of post 1600 though). I m looking for really early examples of chip carving..
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
                  I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                  (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                  chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                  Thanks
                  Beth

                  At 11:24 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:
                  >Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar,
                  >a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just
                  >been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the wet clothing, then
                  >the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the roller. The
                  >mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By present her
                  >with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your intentions
                  >through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of the
                  >love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest dates.
                  >
                  >In Magical Service,
                  >Malaki
                  >
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  >[mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                  >Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00 PM
                  >To: woodworking
                  >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving
                  >
                  >What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
                  >that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
                  >reference on the history...
                  >
                  >Thanks,
                  >Beth
                  >
                  >On page 22 of
                  >Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
                  >Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
                  >[England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600
                  >
                  >"The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                  >Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
                  >well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
                  >derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
                  >decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
                  >widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
                  >by Germanic troops in the Roman army."
                  >
                  >footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
                  >Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
                  >[London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130
                  >
                  >
                • Rebekah d'Avignon
                  That s going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might check Wayne Barton s books, I ve seen some pix of early work in there - nothing before
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
                    That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in there - nothing before 1300, I believe.

                    Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                    I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                    (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                    chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                    Thanks
                    Beth
                    .




                    The quantity of "civilization" possessed by a society is not found in its sciences, technology, or "quality of life". Rather it is found in the manner in which its citizens treat each other - in which case we are just "high tech barbarians".


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                  • Beth and Bob Matney
                    We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving (such as on early
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
                      We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                      decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                      (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                      was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                      I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                      of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                      have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...

                      BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                      from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.

                      Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                      Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                      Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00

                      Thanks,
                      Beth

                      At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                      >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                      >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                      >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                      >
                      >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                      >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                      >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                      >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                      >
                      >Thanks
                      >Beth
                    • Dale Compton
                      Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 7, 2007
                        Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving where on furniture. I will see if I can find some examples for you.
                         
                        Innis


                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                        Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:14 AM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving

                        I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                        (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                        chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                        Thanks
                        Beth

                        At 11:24 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:

                        >Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case
                        you are unfamiliar,
                        >a mangle board was used to press water out of
                        clothing that had just
                        >been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the
                        wet clothing, then
                        >the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the
                        roller. The
                        >mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By
                        present her
                        >with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your
                        intentions
                        >through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of
                        the
                        >love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest
                        dates.
                        >
                        >In Magical
                        Service,
                        >Malaki
                        >
                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From:
                        href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                        >[mailto:
                        href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                        >Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00
                        PM
                        >To: woodworking
                        >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip
                        carving
                        >
                        >What are the earliest examples of chip carving in
                        wood/bone/ivory
                        >that you know of? Would really like to find a good
                        scholarly
                        >reference on the
                        history...
                        >
                        >Thanks,
                        >Beth
                        >
                        >On page 22
                        of
                        >Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art
                        and
                        >Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud,
                        Gloucestershire
                        >[England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623
                        9780750904629 OCLC:35360600
                        >
                        >"The first manifestations of
                        Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                        >Vermand style, after a cemetery in
                        France in which examples of it are
                        >well represented (81). The style
                        employs chip-carving - a technique
                        >derived from woodworking, originally
                        developed, like so many Germanic
                        >decorative techniques, around the head
                        of the Black Sea. This became
                        >widespread along the Roman frontier in
                        Germany, where it was taken up
                        >by Germanic troops in the Roman
                        army."
                        >
                        >footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general
                        discussion."
                        >Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the
                        Thames.
                        >[London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965.
                        OCLC:1354130
                        >
                        >

                      • Rebekah d'Avignon
                        You may be talking about An Introduction to the History of the Woodcut (Vols I & II). I got mine from eBay. Dale Compton wrote:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 7, 2007
                          You may be talking about An Introduction to the History of the Woodcut (Vols I & II). I got mine from eBay.

                          Dale Compton <DComptonjr@...> wrote:
                          Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving where on furniture. I will see if I can find some examples for you.
                           
                          Innis
                          .




                          The quantity of "civilization" possessed by a society is not found in its sciences, technology, or "quality of life". Rather it is found in the manner in which its citizens treat each other - in which case we are just "high tech barbarians".


                          Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
                          Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

                        • Jan-Simon Hoogschagen
                          As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it mentioned in the books, or
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
                            As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval
                            furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it
                            mentioned in the books, or saw pictures of it.
                            As already said in this discussion, it does appear on chests from the
                            13th / 14th century.
                            I will check the book by Florian Westphal this evening (beautiful book
                            by the way), when I am back home to see if I have not missed any chip
                            carvings. Will also go through Barbara Grodde's book on early medieval
                            furniture, just in case.

                            best wishes,
                            Jan-Simon

                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                            <bmatney@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                            > decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                            > (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                            > was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                            > I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                            > of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                            > have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...
                            >
                            > BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                            > from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.
                            >
                            > Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                            > Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                            > Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > Beth
                            >
                            > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                            > >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                            > >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                            > >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                            > >
                            > >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                            > >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                            > >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                            > >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                            > >
                            > >Thanks
                            > >Beth
                            >
                          • kjworz@comcast.net
                            A lot would depend on your definition of chip carving. Does it have to be in wood? What we recognize today as chip carving has roots in the styles that matured
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
                              A lot would depend on your definition of chip carving.

                              Does it have to be in wood?

                              What we recognize today as chip carving has roots in the styles that matured in Switzerland post period.

                              Every treatise I read about Chip Carving always say that "is an ancient method of decoration" but never cites examples. Citations, the lack thereof, is a bane to our research.

                              Links
                              http://www.caithness.org/community/crafts/chipcarving/McIvorandAllen.htm
                              cites especially the geometric carving influence from Islam

                              http://www.fifulls.com/site/837579/page/45030

                              --
                              -Chris Schwartz
                              Silver Spring, MD

                              -------------- Original message ----------------------
                              From: "Jan-Simon Hoogschagen" <jan-simon@...>
                              > As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval
                              > furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it
                              > mentioned in the books, or saw pictures of it.
                              > As already said in this discussion, it does appear on chests from the
                              > 13th / 14th century.
                              > I will check the book by Florian Westphal this evening (beautiful book
                              > by the way), when I am back home to see if I have not missed any chip
                              > carvings. Will also go through Barbara Grodde's book on early medieval
                              > furniture, just in case.
                              >
                              > best wishes,
                              > Jan-Simon
                              >
                              > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                              > <bmatney@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                              > > decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                              > > (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                              > > was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                              > > I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                              > > of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                              > > have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...
                              > >
                              > > BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                              > > from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.
                              > >
                              > > Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                              > > Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                              > > Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00
                              > >
                              > > Thanks,
                              > > Beth
                              > >
                              > > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                              > > >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                              > > >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                              > > >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                              > > >
                              > > >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                              > > >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                              > > >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                              > > >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                              > > >
                              > > >Thanks
                              > > >Beth
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Bruce S. R. Lee
                              In stone, do a search on Jesus Family Tomb - at least one of the ossuaries has chip carved rosettes. Photos are in the May/June 2007 (vol 18 No.3) issue of
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
                                In stone, do a search on 'Jesus Family Tomb' - at least one of the
                                ossuaries has 'chip' carved rosettes. Photos are in the May/June 2007
                                (vol 18 No.3) issue of Minerva, if you local library gets it.

                                There are a lot of 'chip' carved designs in stone from the
                                'Classical' world, just that the amount of surviving wood is very
                                limited. I'll have to do a quick search of my Roman woodworking books
                                to see if anything survived from Herculaneum.


                                regards
                                Brusi of Orkney
                                Rowany/Lochac
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