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Re: chip carving

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  • ragnarironhead
    Charlie, Check out http://www.chipcarving.com - my Dad s a woodcarver and I ve seen this guy s articles in some magazines. Looks like a good starting point.
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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      Charlie,

      Check out http://www.chipcarving.com - my Dad's a woodcarver and I've
      seen this guy's articles in some magazines. Looks like a good
      starting point.

      Bob
    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      so... Who s going to Pennsic? Do we want to get together and put faces and names together...? Charles, you have the most central camp, would you like be tha
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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        so...

        Who's going to Pennsic?

        Do we want to get together and
        put faces and names together...?


        Charles, you have the most central
        camp, would you like be tha meting place?


        Conal


        __________________________________________________
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      • Ted Kocot
        ... Me! Avery
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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          > Who's going to Pennsic?

          Me!

          Avery
        • vinlandar
          Conal, I am not sure if I am the Charles you were addressing in this post, but while i would thuroughly enjoy meeting you folks, I will not be going to
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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            Conal,

            I am not sure if I am the Charles you were addressing in this
            post, but while i would thuroughly enjoy meeting you folks, I will
            not be going to Pennsic.

            I did just finish a wood chest though, a modification of the six
            board chest inspired by the mastermyr chest. I didn't do the tongue
            and groove joint on the ends of the bottom board to the sides, but I
            did angle the sides inward toward the top at 5 degrees, and the top I
            made out of 2x6 which I rounded heavily at the edges. I fastened the
            boards together using screws which I countersunk and filled the screw
            holes with wood plugs. I ended up using leather hinges, due to time
            constraints. This chest was pine, as it was a learning piece. The
            next one I would like to make out of a nice hardwood. I was
            pleasantly surprised, that 5 degree angle on the ends makes it very
            tip-resistant when one is sitting near an end.

            -Charlie



            --- In medievalsawdust@y..., Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@y...>
            wrote:
            > so...
            >
            > Who's going to Pennsic?
            >
            > Do we want to get together and
            > put faces and names together...?
            >
            >
            > Charles, you have the most central
            > camp, would you like be tha meting place?
            >
            >
            > Conal
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
            > http://health.yahoo.com
          • vinlandar
            Thanks Bob, I have done so, and that s a great site! I am going to look around to check out his books and videos. They look like what I need. Thanks again!
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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              Thanks Bob, I have done so, and that's a great site! I am going to
              look around to check out his books and videos. They look like what I
              need.

              Thanks again!

              -Charlie


              --- In medievalsawdust@y..., "ragnarironhead" <ragnarironhead@y...>
              wrote:
              > Charlie,
              >
              > Check out http://www.chipcarving.com - my Dad's a woodcarver and
              I've
              > seen this guy's articles in some magazines. Looks like a good
              > starting point.
              >
              > Bob
            • Dan Baker
              I will be there, twice in fact. ... -- YIS, Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer Privateer to the Midrealm Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw ...Take time to dance in
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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                I will be there, twice in fact.

                >
                >so...
                >
                >Who's going to Pennsic?
                >
                > Do we want to get together and
                >put faces and names together...?
                >
                >
                >Charles, you have the most central
                >camp, would you like be tha meting place?
                >
                >
                > Conal
                >
                >
                >__________________________________________________
                >Do You Yahoo!?
                >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
                >http://health.yahoo.com


                --
                YIS,

                Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
                Privateer to the Midrealm

                Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
                ...Take time to dance in the rain...

                _________________________________________________________________
                MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
                http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
              • James Winkler
                I am... oops... YOU already knew that... Anyway... my pavillion could serve as the meeting place. When would folks like to get together? Chas. ... From:
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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                  I am...  oops... YOU already knew that... 
                   
                  Anyway...  my pavillion could serve as the meeting place.  When would folks like to get together?  
                   
                  Chas.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                  Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:42 AM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Re: chip carving
                   
                  so...

                  Who's going to Pennsic?

                     Do we want to get together and
                  put faces and names together...?


                  Charles, you have the most central
                  camp, would you like be tha meting place?


                                    Conal


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                • Beth and Bob Matney
                  What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly reference on the history...
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 4, 2007
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                    What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
                    that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
                    reference on the history...

                    Thanks,
                    Beth

                    On page 22 of
                    Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
                    Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
                    [England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600

                    "The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                    Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
                    well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
                    derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
                    decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
                    widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
                    by Germanic troops in the Roman army."

                    footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
                    Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
                    [London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130
                  • Tracy Swanson
                    Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar, a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just been washed. A wooden
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 4, 2007
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                      Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar, a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the wet clothing, then the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the roller. The mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By present her with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your intentions through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of the love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest dates.
                       
                      In Magical Service,
                      Malaki
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                      Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00 PM
                      To: woodworking
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving

                      What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
                      that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
                      reference on the history...

                      Thanks,
                      Beth

                      On page 22 of
                      Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
                      Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
                      [England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600

                      "The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                      Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
                      well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
                      derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
                      decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
                      widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
                      by Germanic troops in the Roman army."

                      footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
                      Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
                      [London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130

                    • Beth and Bob Matney
                      I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples.. (lots of post 1600 though). I m looking for really early examples of chip carving..
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
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                        I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                        (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                        chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                        Thanks
                        Beth

                        At 11:24 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:
                        >Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar,
                        >a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just
                        >been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the wet clothing, then
                        >the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the roller. The
                        >mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By present her
                        >with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your intentions
                        >through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of the
                        >love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest dates.
                        >
                        >In Magical Service,
                        >Malaki
                        >
                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        >[mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                        >Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00 PM
                        >To: woodworking
                        >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving
                        >
                        >What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
                        >that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
                        >reference on the history...
                        >
                        >Thanks,
                        >Beth
                        >
                        >On page 22 of
                        >Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
                        >Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
                        >[England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600
                        >
                        >"The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                        >Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
                        >well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
                        >derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
                        >decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
                        >widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
                        >by Germanic troops in the Roman army."
                        >
                        >footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
                        >Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
                        >[London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130
                        >
                        >
                      • Rebekah d'Avignon
                        That s going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might check Wayne Barton s books, I ve seen some pix of early work in there - nothing before
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
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                          That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in there - nothing before 1300, I believe.

                          Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                          I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                          (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                          chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                          Thanks
                          Beth
                          .




                          The quantity of "civilization" possessed by a society is not found in its sciences, technology, or "quality of life". Rather it is found in the manner in which its citizens treat each other - in which case we are just "high tech barbarians".


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                        • Beth and Bob Matney
                          We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving (such as on early
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
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                            We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                            decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                            (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                            was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                            I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                            of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                            have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...

                            BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                            from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.

                            Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                            Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                            Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00

                            Thanks,
                            Beth

                            At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                            >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                            >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                            >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                            >
                            >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                            >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                            >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                            >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                            >
                            >Thanks
                            >Beth
                          • Dale Compton
                            Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 7, 2007
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                              Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving where on furniture. I will see if I can find some examples for you.
                               
                              Innis


                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                              Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:14 AM
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving

                              I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                              (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                              chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                              Thanks
                              Beth

                              At 11:24 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:

                              >Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case
                              you are unfamiliar,
                              >a mangle board was used to press water out of
                              clothing that had just
                              >been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the
                              wet clothing, then
                              >the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the
                              roller. The
                              >mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By
                              present her
                              >with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your
                              intentions
                              >through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of
                              the
                              >love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest
                              dates.
                              >
                              >In Magical
                              Service,
                              >Malaki
                              >
                              >-----Original Message-----
                              >From:
                              href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                              >[mailto:
                              href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                              >Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00
                              PM
                              >To: woodworking
                              >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip
                              carving
                              >
                              >What are the earliest examples of chip carving in
                              wood/bone/ivory
                              >that you know of? Would really like to find a good
                              scholarly
                              >reference on the
                              history...
                              >
                              >Thanks,
                              >Beth
                              >
                              >On page 22
                              of
                              >Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art
                              and
                              >Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud,
                              Gloucestershire
                              >[England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623
                              9780750904629 OCLC:35360600
                              >
                              >"The first manifestations of
                              Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                              >Vermand style, after a cemetery in
                              France in which examples of it are
                              >well represented (81). The style
                              employs chip-carving - a technique
                              >derived from woodworking, originally
                              developed, like so many Germanic
                              >decorative techniques, around the head
                              of the Black Sea. This became
                              >widespread along the Roman frontier in
                              Germany, where it was taken up
                              >by Germanic troops in the Roman
                              army."
                              >
                              >footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general
                              discussion."
                              >Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the
                              Thames.
                              >[London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965.
                              OCLC:1354130
                              >
                              >

                            • Rebekah d'Avignon
                              You may be talking about An Introduction to the History of the Woodcut (Vols I & II). I got mine from eBay. Dale Compton wrote:
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 7, 2007
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                                You may be talking about An Introduction to the History of the Woodcut (Vols I & II). I got mine from eBay.

                                Dale Compton <DComptonjr@...> wrote:
                                Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving where on furniture. I will see if I can find some examples for you.
                                 
                                Innis
                                .




                                The quantity of "civilization" possessed by a society is not found in its sciences, technology, or "quality of life". Rather it is found in the manner in which its citizens treat each other - in which case we are just "high tech barbarians".


                                Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
                                Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

                              • Jan-Simon Hoogschagen
                                As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it mentioned in the books, or
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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                                  As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval
                                  furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it
                                  mentioned in the books, or saw pictures of it.
                                  As already said in this discussion, it does appear on chests from the
                                  13th / 14th century.
                                  I will check the book by Florian Westphal this evening (beautiful book
                                  by the way), when I am back home to see if I have not missed any chip
                                  carvings. Will also go through Barbara Grodde's book on early medieval
                                  furniture, just in case.

                                  best wishes,
                                  Jan-Simon

                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                                  <bmatney@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                                  > decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                                  > (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                                  > was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                                  > I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                                  > of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                                  > have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...
                                  >
                                  > BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                                  > from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.
                                  >
                                  > Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                                  > Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                                  > Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Beth
                                  >
                                  > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                                  > >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                                  > >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                                  > >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                                  > >
                                  > >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                                  > >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                                  > >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                                  > >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                                  > >
                                  > >Thanks
                                  > >Beth
                                  >
                                • kjworz@comcast.net
                                  A lot would depend on your definition of chip carving. Does it have to be in wood? What we recognize today as chip carving has roots in the styles that matured
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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                                    A lot would depend on your definition of chip carving.

                                    Does it have to be in wood?

                                    What we recognize today as chip carving has roots in the styles that matured in Switzerland post period.

                                    Every treatise I read about Chip Carving always say that "is an ancient method of decoration" but never cites examples. Citations, the lack thereof, is a bane to our research.

                                    Links
                                    http://www.caithness.org/community/crafts/chipcarving/McIvorandAllen.htm
                                    cites especially the geometric carving influence from Islam

                                    http://www.fifulls.com/site/837579/page/45030

                                    --
                                    -Chris Schwartz
                                    Silver Spring, MD

                                    -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                    From: "Jan-Simon Hoogschagen" <jan-simon@...>
                                    > As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval
                                    > furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it
                                    > mentioned in the books, or saw pictures of it.
                                    > As already said in this discussion, it does appear on chests from the
                                    > 13th / 14th century.
                                    > I will check the book by Florian Westphal this evening (beautiful book
                                    > by the way), when I am back home to see if I have not missed any chip
                                    > carvings. Will also go through Barbara Grodde's book on early medieval
                                    > furniture, just in case.
                                    >
                                    > best wishes,
                                    > Jan-Simon
                                    >
                                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                                    > <bmatney@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                                    > > decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                                    > > (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                                    > > was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                                    > > I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                                    > > of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                                    > > have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...
                                    > >
                                    > > BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                                    > > from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.
                                    > >
                                    > > Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                                    > > Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                                    > > Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks,
                                    > > Beth
                                    > >
                                    > > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                                    > > >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                                    > > >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                                    > > >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                                    > > >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                                    > > >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                                    > > >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Thanks
                                    > > >Beth
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Bruce S. R. Lee
                                    In stone, do a search on Jesus Family Tomb - at least one of the ossuaries has chip carved rosettes. Photos are in the May/June 2007 (vol 18 No.3) issue of
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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                                      In stone, do a search on 'Jesus Family Tomb' - at least one of the
                                      ossuaries has 'chip' carved rosettes. Photos are in the May/June 2007
                                      (vol 18 No.3) issue of Minerva, if you local library gets it.

                                      There are a lot of 'chip' carved designs in stone from the
                                      'Classical' world, just that the amount of surviving wood is very
                                      limited. I'll have to do a quick search of my Roman woodworking books
                                      to see if anything survived from Herculaneum.


                                      regards
                                      Brusi of Orkney
                                      Rowany/Lochac
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