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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Building and towing a cart

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  • Helen Schultz
    Sadly, Charles, I rarely have any of my apprentices at war . And, they never seem to camp with me when they do come. Alas, the problems of a Laurel
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 28, 2006
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      Sadly, Charles, I rarely have any of my apprentices at war <sigh>.  And, they never seem to camp with me when they do come.  Alas, the problems of a Laurel with wayward children <giggle>.  However, your idea about allowing other campmates use the wagon for ice runs sounds pretty good... heck, if I make the wagon nice enough looking, and easy to take apart, I might just make one or two extra ones for them.  Some of them I get to see ONLY at Pennsic, because they reside in the upper northeastern portions of the East Kingdom and I am in the central portion of the Middle.
       
      ~~ Katarina Helene
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:47 PM
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Building and towing a cart

      >> About the other comments on the list about a harness... not sure a 5'2" tall woman in 14th c clothing would look too feminine with a harness while shopping around Pennsic <wry grin>.  <<
       
      Perhaps, m'Lady... but she would be a Lady none the less...  and, perhaps... she might find an apprentice or two to aid to both the burden and the ambiance???   (One thing I've discovered about having a cart... camp mates are often easy to enlist for the purpose of toting and fetching IF they have access to the convenience of a conveyance for their own purposes from time to time...  bargains can be made...  deals struck...  compacts formed!!!!  The bargain being fair and square on the principle of "you fly... I'll buy"... or, in this case... "I'll provide the labour saving device if thou provideth the labour"... hee-hee...)
       
      Winking smiley emoticon
       
      Chas.

    • Dan Baker
      Thanks for the complements guys. Actually the cart I made doesn t put much weight on the hands, I have had more then 600 pounds in it and it push easily (once
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 28, 2006
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        Thanks for the complements guys.

        Actually the cart I made doesn't put much weight on the hands, I have had more then 600 pounds in it and it push easily (once you got the weight moving of course.)  It's very well balanced and can be held up with a couple of fingers.

        You might try cutting the size by 25-50% and using the same plans.  That would take the mass down and still keep the balance.

        ( http://home.i1.net/~avery/cart/cart.html ) however the site
        doesn't appear to be up.
         .....................Nope Master Avery's site is gone, but he gave me pernission to put his plans on my site.  They are towards the bottom of the page.

        -Rhys

        On 8/28/06, Helen Schultz <helen.schultz@...> wrote:

        Sadly, Fearghus, I have looked at Lord Rhys' excellent cart plans, and found the finished product would probably hurt my back more than help... I need to be able to have something a bit lighter to pull behind me, as pushing would put too much stress on my lower spine (where I have a bone out of place), even if I scaled it down a little. <sigh>
         
        No, I'm looking for something more like the one Historic Enterprises sells for $250, but with solid sides or a way to keep books and fabric from spilling out onto the ground as I pull the cart behind me on the uneven ground of Pennsic.  You can see their cart at:  http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=463


        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            
      • Avery Austringer
        ... I think you d be surprised at how easily the carts the Rhys and I have built are to pull, but base on your list of planned cargo they are about 4 time the
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 28, 2006
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          > but with solid sides or a way to keep books and
          > fabric from spilling out onto the ground as I pull the cart behind me
          > on the uneven ground of Pennsic.

          I think you'd be surprised at how easily the carts the Rhys and I have
          built are to pull, but base on your list of planned cargo they are
          about 4 time the vehicle you need.

          Things to consider/remember - the size of the wheel is directly
          proportional to the ease of pulling. Particularly on uneven ground. I
          have only found one example of a cart with an axel set below the base
          of it's deck (like mine) and that was in an illustration which may have
          no bearing on reality. Why the difference? I wanted to get my spoke
          disks out of one 4x4 piece of plywood. They were dealing with roads
          that made the worst parts of Pennsic look like broom finished cement.

          A large basket would make stake sides work for you. Or cut out the
          middle man and weave willow wands into the stakes themselves.

          I don't think there is any particular reason for the small wheel in
          front.

          Harbor freight sells "decorative" wagon wheels. Whether or not
          decorative = "would last about 30 seconds under lightest possible use"
          is unknown to me. Here's a link:
          http://da.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=wooden+wagon+wheels

          Avery
        • leaking pen
          no, harbor frieght wheels will NOT last. ... -- That which yields isn t always weak.
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 28, 2006
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            no, harbor frieght wheels will NOT last.


            On 8/28/06, Avery Austringer <avery1415@...> wrote:
            > > but with solid sides or a way to keep books and
            > > fabric from spilling out onto the ground as I pull the cart behind me
            > > on the uneven ground of Pennsic.
            >
            > I think you'd be surprised at how easily the carts the Rhys and I have
            > built are to pull, but base on your list of planned cargo they are
            > about 4 time the vehicle you need.
            >
            > Things to consider/remember - the size of the wheel is directly
            > proportional to the ease of pulling. Particularly on uneven ground. I
            > have only found one example of a cart with an axel set below the base
            > of it's deck (like mine) and that was in an illustration which may have
            > no bearing on reality. Why the difference? I wanted to get my spoke
            > disks out of one 4x4 piece of plywood. They were dealing with roads
            > that made the worst parts of Pennsic look like broom finished cement.
            >
            > A large basket would make stake sides work for you. Or cut out the
            > middle man and weave willow wands into the stakes themselves.
            >
            > I don't think there is any particular reason for the small wheel in
            > front.
            >
            > Harbor freight sells "decorative" wagon wheels. Whether or not
            > decorative = "would last about 30 seconds under lightest possible use"
            > is unknown to me. Here's a link:
            > http://da.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=wooden+wagon+wheels
            >
            > Avery
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            --
            That which yields isn't always weak.
          • Iain mac an Bhaird
            I do have a friend who has made something similar to that with solid sides that they use for transporting their little one (and other stuff) about Pennsic.
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 28, 2006
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              I do have a friend who has made something similar to that with solid
              sides that they use for transporting their little one (and other
              stuff) about Pennsic. I'm not sure he followed any particular plans,
              but I might be able to get him to write some up for you...

              -Iain


              >No, I'm looking for something more like the one Historic Enterprises
              >sells for $250, but with solid sides or a way to keep books and
              >fabric from spilling out onto the ground as I pull the cart behind
              >me on the uneven ground of Pennsic. You can see their cart
              >at: http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=463
            • Haraldr Bassi (yahoogroups)
              ... Some things to think about... first, every pound of wagon will still need to be started and stopped, requiring your body be able to handle that load. The
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 28, 2006
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                Helen Schultz wrote:

                > I did really well this past war when I only had to carry my basket
                > (read this as analogous to a mundane purse), but when I tried a block
                > of ice and a bag of ice one day, I didn't get past Cooper's store...
                > ended up getting a ride through Disability Point (since my cart
                > wouldn't hold a charge and I had to walk everywhere anyway). I
                > probably could have done two bags of regular ice, but those blocks
                > are darned heavy <sigh>. The bone I have out of place in my back is
                > located in such a place as that any extra weight on the upper half of
                > my body causes it to push against my sciatic nerve, and I can maybe
                > take two or three steps before crumbling in sobs. The heat packs
                > were wonderful this year, I was able to walk everywhere without this
                > nerve getting pinched... I guess it soothed the surrounding area, or
                > something.

                Some things to think about... first, every pound of wagon will still
                need to be started and stopped, requiring your body be able to handle
                that load. The design being looked at is good in that it has four wheels
                on the ground so only the resistance to rolling is required to be
                managed. However, a wagon made in hardwood with a couple bags of ice
                could require that you control 50-75 lbs of weight (or more) going up or
                down those inclines at Pennsic. Not a trivial exercise for someone with
                a spine issue.

                An alternative, in keeping with the medieval spirit, but adapting to
                deal with real world medical conditions might, be to add a pair of
                wheels to a lighter weight pack basket such as what is sold by the
                Basket Man at Pennsic. A handle and wheel set that would allow the
                basket to rest flat on the ground when not moving and would engage a
                pair of wooden wheels when slightly tipped for travel might well
                accomplish the goals you desire. I could envision a frame that straps to
                the basket and supports the bottom runners and has a handle for guidance
                and maneuvering. Think of a lightweight wooden luggage cart for a basket.

                If you have a pack basket like this already, it might be worth
                considering as an alternative. You could even test whether the weight
                would be too much by using one of the collapsible luggage carts with an
                existing basket and see of the motion will aggravate your condition.

                Lastly, regarding the back pain, have you looked into Lido Derm patches?
                They aren't to address the swelling and tissues, but do a nice job of
                addressing chronic pain. At least for the 12 hours you can wear them ;)
                Might be worth a discussion with your healer.

                Best of luck,
                Haraldr
              • Helen Schultz
                Haraldr... Thanks for your advice... I will look into pulling my big back-pack basket with a luggage wheel-thing for a while (I haven t had any problems
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 28, 2006
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                  Haraldr...
                   
                  Thanks for your advice... I will look into pulling my big back-pack basket with a luggage wheel-thing for a while (I haven't had any problems pulling a suitcase on wheels behind me through airports so I will try it with the basket at one or two events), but I was trying to go more period in look <sigh>.  I know, when one has spine problems, one can't always be so choosy <sheepish grin>.  I will ask my doctor about those Lido Derm patches.  The heat ones I've been using are over-the-counter, but still a bit on the expensive side.  I was just so happy to not be so restricted with what I could do when the scooter failed me <grin>.
                   
                  I'm lucky that the hills I usually have to traverse are not as steep as Ruinstone Hill, so hopefully I won't have to worry too much about so much extra weight.  I usually done one or two big book shopping trips to the upper end of the Merchant area, and the fabric I bought this year will probably keep me for a couple more years <wry grin>.  The ice is another matter... and maybe I won't have to do more than a couple runs for it next year.  But, I want to be prepared.
                   
                  ~~ Katarina Helene
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                   



                  Helen Schultz wrote:

                  > I did really well this past war when I only had to carry my basket
                  > (read this as analogous to a mundane purse), but when I tried a block
                  > of ice and a bag of ice one day, I didn't get past Cooper's store...
                  > ended up getting a ride through Disability Point (since my cart
                  > wouldn't hold a charge and I had to walk everywhere anyway). I
                  > probably could have done two bags of regular ice, but those blocks
                  > are darned heavy <sigh>. The bone I have out of place in my back is
                  > located in such a place as that any extra weight on the upper half of
                  > my body causes it to push against my sciatic nerve, and I can maybe
                  > take two or three steps before crumbling in sobs. The heat packs
                  > were wonderful this year, I was able to walk everywhere without this
                  > nerve getting pinched... I guess it soothed the surrounding area, or
                  > something.

                  Some things to think about... first, every pound of wagon will still
                  need to be started and stopped, requiring your body be able to handle
                  that load. The design being looked at is good in that it has four wheels
                  on the ground so only the resistance to rolling is required to be
                  managed. However, a wagon made in hardwood with a couple bags of ice
                  could require that you control 50-75 lbs of weight (or more) going up or
                  down those inclines at Pennsic. Not a trivial exercise for someone with
                  a spine issue.

                  An alternative, in keeping with the medieval spirit, but adapting to
                  deal with real world medical conditions might, be to add a pair of
                  wheels to a lighter weight pack basket such as what is sold by the
                  Basket Man at Pennsic. A handle and wheel set that would allow the
                  basket to rest flat on the ground when not moving and would engage a
                  pair of wooden wheels when slightly tipped for travel might well
                  accomplish the goals you desire. I could envision a frame that straps to
                  the basket and supports the bottom runners and has a handle for guidance
                  and maneuvering. Think of a lightweight wooden luggage cart for a basket.

                  If you have a pack basket like this already, it might be worth
                  considering as an alternative. You could even test whether the weight
                  would be too much by using one of the collapsible luggage carts with an
                  existing basket and see of the motion will aggravate your condition.

                  Lastly, regarding the back pain, have you looked into Lido Derm patches?
                  They aren't to address the swelling and tissues, but do a nice job of
                  addressing chronic pain. At least for the 12 hours you can wear them ;)
                  Might be worth a discussion with your healer.

                  Best of luck,
                  Haraldr

                • Liedtke Goetz
                  ... So the wheels attached to the pulling harness can turn more. The big wheels support while the small wheels give you some turning radius. For the maximum
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 28, 2006
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                    --- Helen Schultz <helen.schultz@...> wrote:

                    > Thanks so much for the links... The Colonial Trading company even had
                    > another small "pumpkin" wagon I could adapt, that used dowels for the
                    > side rails. Does anyone know why one would need to have different
                    > sized wheels for this type of cart??

                    So the wheels attached to the pulling harness can turn more. The big
                    wheels support while the small wheels give you some turning radius.
                    For the maximum turning radius, you need wheels that fit under the cart
                    bed, but that requires a really built up fifth wheel.

                    Goetz


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                  • Marit
                    The smaller wheels at the front are easier for steering due to having less inertia than the larger rear ones. M Helen Schultz
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 29, 2006
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                      The smaller wheels at the front are easier for steering due to having less inertia than the larger rear ones.
                      M

                      Helen Schultz <helen.schultz@...> wrote:
                      Thanks so much for the links... The Colonial Trading company even had another small "pumpkin" wagon I could adapt, that used dowels for the side rails.  Does anyone know why one would need to have different sized wheels for this type of cart??  I notice that all the examples of actual carts had smaller ones on the front and larger ones on the back.
                       
                      And, I agree, those plastic ones in your last link do look good in their image, but it can't be enlarged further <sigh>.  If it met my purpose, the price IS not bad (considering the other options offered).  I don't know how successfully I could make some of my own, as I don't have a lot of experience making round things, nor do I have many "precision" tools <sheepish grin>.
                       
                      About the other comments on the list about a harness... not sure a 5'2" tall woman in 14th c clothing would look too feminine with a harness while shopping around Pennsic <wry grin>.  I don't have many hills to have to maneuver from where I usually camp, but there is at least one slight one getting into the food court and the other up by Cooper's Store (which is a bit of a down-slope on the way out after getting ice).
                       
                      ~~ Katarina Helene
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:12 PM
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Building and towing a cart

                      I can in part answer my own question. There are places that sell such wheels.
                       
                      Thing is, four of them would cost almost as much as that cart! 
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      Unless you cheat and use the plastic one, that looks pretty good at least in a photo. Wonder what their load-bearing ability is?
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      .



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