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Re: [medievalsawdust] Re: Safety Note

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  • rmhowe
    ... Oh my! That s both sharp and cold! But imagine what he could do with an AXE! Maybe the first sergeant s stripes were only the bent former digits sewn on
    Message 1 of 17 , May 31, 2003
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      Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:
      > --- James Winkler <jrwinkler@...> wrote:
      >
      >>WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT THE FIRST TABLE SAW ACCIDENT???
      >>There weren't no video cameras (or any other kind
      >>for that fact) way back then. and I swear. both of
      >>the 'safety rocks' were in place. HONEST!!!
      >>
      >>Charlie-three-fingers
      >
      > If you had been using handtools like a good
      > woodworking Laurel you could have stopped sawing
      > before you cut your fingers half off......
      > - Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Oh my! That's both sharp and cold!
      But imagine what he could do with an AXE!

      Maybe the first sergeant's stripes were only the bent
      former digits sewn on the sleeve as a warning to recruits.

      No more 'Pluck Yew!' for Charlie Three Fingers I suppose.
      That's what happens when you run out of arrows and can't
      outrun the French. Shoulda worn a kilt instead and not
      had your smalls drop around your ankles during your exit.

      Magnus, OL, axe connoiseur.

      Actually, I have a cast iron tablesaw that clamps to a table.
      It has a 1" circular saw blade and is turned with a tiny
      crank. On the off side is a small rotary file for cleaning
      up joints. The table is like 2 x 2".

      I suppose this would be similar to that tiny violin you're playing.
    • James Winkler
      ... Ironically, after about 30 years of playing with power tools this is the first oops! I ve had (. well, OK. the first one that required intervention from
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 1, 2003
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        Magnus wrote:

        >> Oh my!  That's both sharp and cold!
        >> But
        imagine what he could do with an AXE!
         
        Winking smiley emoticon  Ironically, after about 30 years of playing with power tools this is the first 'oops!' I've had (… well, OK… the first one that required intervention from a medical professional and couldn't be dealt with by a shop towel and a bandade)…  probably should have been others but I think my guardian angle took the day off when I was working on the bowl. 
         
        But.. an axe… OUCH!!!  So far I've had pretty good luck with those pointy objects… (but, of course, up until a few days ago I'd had pretty good luck with my band saw too…). 
         
        Really liked reading Magnus's 'the math behind why and how kickbacks happen'…  excellent explanation of pain in the making.  Norm did something similar on one of his shows years ago and calculated the number of teeth that goes through your hand between the time you get yer' fin'ners INTO the blade and the time you finally get em' out again.  Of course, individual reaction time, saw RPM and tooth count on the blade will impact the impressiveness of the count considerably… but not the net result!!!
         
        'pickin up me smalls and carrying on, I remain your most obdn't servant -
        Chas.
         
        ================
        Oh…  when 'new guys' come into my shop I always tell em' -
         
        "I got three rules in my shop:
         
        1:  When you leave you must have the same number of fingers and toes you cam in with.
        2:  You can't borrow some from somebody else to make up a personal deficit.
        3:  They must all work the same way as they did when ya' walked in…"
         
        OOPS… violated my own 'Rule 3'…  but the Doc sez' things are coming along fine.  Stitches should be out this coming Tuesday… they're planning on 'pulling the pin' (… ANOTHER experience I'm not looking forward to…) in about 5 or 6 weeks…  Tra-la… then I can go back to being Charlie=five-fingers again…
         
         
         
      • rmhowe
        ... My grandmother had several rusty dull axes when I was a kid. Just right so s they d hit you in the knee when the rounded edges slipped. I have a good
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 8, 2003
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          James Winkler wrote:
          > Magnus wrote:
          >
          > >> Oh my! That's both sharp and cold!
          > >> But imagine what he could do with an AXE!
          >
          > Winking smiley emoticon Ironically, after about 30 years of playing
          > with power tools this is the first 'oops!' I've had (… well, OK… the
          > first one that required intervention from a medical professional and
          > couldn't be dealt with by a shop towel and a bandade)… probably should
          > have been others but I think my guardian angle took the day off when I
          > was working on the bowl.
          >
          > But.. an axe… OUCH!!! So far I've had pretty good luck with those
          > pointy objects… (but, of course, up until a few days ago I'd had pretty
          > good luck with my band saw too…).

          My grandmother had several rusty dull axes when I was a kid.
          Just right so's they'd hit you in the knee when the rounded
          edges slipped. I have a good thirty or more presently of all
          sizes. Presently looking about for handles for four newer
          Viking axe reproductions. I need 1 1/2" thick ash after planing.

          I got my first hand scythe last year and tried using it on
          the crap growing through the back fence. The knee got holed
          pretty quickly. The good one of course, the one I can still
          climb some stairs with. The knee was pissed.

          > Really liked reading Magnus's 'the math behind why and how kickbacks
          > happen'… excellent explanation of pain in the making.

          Thank you. Been watching that happen a long time.

          You would probably be amazed looking at the radial grooves I've
          seen cut in the bottom of small square boards by some people too
          during kickbacks. My first and only one like that occured during
          my first experience on a saw. Right in front of four girls I got
          frisbeed right in the nuts. Grin and bear it. We were cutting
          maple into octagonal tops for three legged walnut candlestands.
          Damned nice piece of furniture though.

          I don't know if I told this story here or not.

          When I worked for the first plastics company all the big stuff
          was cut on a 12 x 12 foot panel saw that had a 7 1/2 horsepower
          saw riding on three tubes above the saw slot in the table.
          14" saw as I recall. As the saw was drawn cutting from the back
          with the teeth from the back everything we cut had to be clamped
          down at the fence on the front of the table. Some plastic is
          slicker than other plastic. Some days I cut up $5000 worth for
          windshields and the like.

          Randy, the asshole submissive boss I had, got in a new 14" blade
          with only about twenty rip teeth on it. I took one look at it
          and said I'm not going to cut with that thing on that saw.
          He said set it up anyway and he'd cut the first cut.

          So I put the 3/4" full sized sheet of polypropylene on the
          table and clamped the clamps down tight, all six of them.

          Randy started to feed the blade into the sheet and WHAM!.
          The saw climbed up on the plastic, shattered the $150 sheet,
          wrenched the tubes, and tore all 20 teeth off his new $75
          saw blade flying around like shrapnel. Of course he said
          I didn't clamp it tight enough. Shit, I couldn't have
          tightened them any more with anything less than a pipe
          on the handles. Polypropylene is tough stuff, not quite
          polycarbonate, but tough.

          Normally if we were cutting 2x4s" or 2x6's" for vacuum
          boxes if a piece came loose the saw would simply chop
          through it, bounce it off the rear wall, the ceiling
          and hit the other end of the 60 foot long shop room
          before we could turn around. It never hit us in the
          process. It would saw through maybe a third of the
          broken board. We used toggle clamps fastened to the
          table top. About 200 pounds each.

          I've seen lots of guys do stuff I advised against
          and then I went and stood behind a steel and concrete
          column. Some people have to pee on the electric fence
          for themselves. When someone else was liable to get
          hurt though their stupidity is when I dived in and
          stopped them for real. Not worth arguing with stupid
          idiots generally. Besides, if they're gone maybe you
          get someone smarter to replace them.

          When I quit the furniture shop I used to run for a few
          years the guy the man tried to replace me with stuck
          half his hand in the jointer and sued him. You can't
          repair anything that's been lost in a jointer. Didn't see
          that one myself. Everyone competent I knew quit within
          two weeks of the time I did. He's not in that business
          anymore. Did offer me a $2 an hour raise to come back.
          Nope. Didn't do that. Talked to his Dad in front of us
          like a dog. One Monday he argued with me. By Wednesday
          I had another job, and quit after filling out the checks
          for everyone on Friday. In front of his dad I handed him
          the key and reminded him of the argument. No I wasn't
          getting up an hour earlier in the morning to suit him.
          I worked 45 hours a week without overtime as it was.
          He'd moved the shop twenty more miles out of town.
          Wasn't worth the extra gas and truck repairs.

          I never argue with anyone whose ass I'm not prepared
          to trash. ;)

          Magnus
        • James Winkler
          ... ALlRIGHT!!! WHO RATTED ME OUT!!! (… a very bad accidental 12 year old experience. I d run my fingers through a bandsaw again before I d repeat that
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 9, 2003
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            Magnus wrote:
            >> Some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

            ALlRIGHT!!! WHO RATTED ME OUT!!! (… a very bad accidental 12 year old
            experience. I'd run my fingers through a bandsaw again before I'd repeat
            that one!!!) Wow… there is NOTHING more painful…

            Chas. (who is suddenly somewhat amazed that he's still alive after all these
            years…)
          • Tim Bray
            ... Think how your mother must feel! ;-) Cheers, Colin Albion Works Furniture and Accessories For the Medievalist! www.albionworks.net www.albionworks.com
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 9, 2003
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              >Chas. (who is suddenly somewhat amazed that he's still alive after all these
              >years…)

              Think how your mother must feel! ;-)

              Cheers,
              Colin


              Albion Works
              Furniture and Accessories
              For the Medievalist!
              www.albionworks.net
              www.albionworks.com
            • rmhowe
              ... I retired before my mother died but I still have all ten fingers in full working order. I m no Roy Underhill but I do have numerous small scars from
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 17, 2003
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                Tim Bray wrote:
                >>Chas. (who is suddenly somewhat amazed that he's still
                >>alive after all these years…)
                >
                > Think how your mother must feel! ;-)
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Colin

                I retired before my mother died but I still have all ten
                fingers in full working order. I'm no Roy Underhill but
                I do have numerous small scars from knives, chisels,
                and various other sharp things including fletching from
                arrows. Never severed a controlling nerve. Roy shoots 3
                episodes most days, or did when I knew him, but I can
                practically guarantee you he's bled by the end of the day.
                The 20th year episode chronicles some of this. It's his
                defining modus operandi.

                Lord knows what Norm's done. I guess you can't sell
                measured drawrings well if you're bleeding on camera.
                The wife won't let you buy it.

                A few of the dumb things that can happen to you if you
                make things full time for many years...

                Glasses or a safety shield saved my eyes multiple
                times, including from a spray of molten type metal
                that left 100-150 dots stuck on the lenses, someone's bolt
                flying from a grinder, and a bar clamp end that
                was attached to a furniture case someone I was talking to
                flipped into me without thinking. A faceshield once stopped
                a wakisashi blade that bit into a sanding drum. The thing
                was brought back from the Philippines totally rusted
                and missing the tsuba. It was what I had at the time
                for removing rust at home. It hit the top of the face
                shield in front of my forehead edge-on. 70's.

                Did I mention I will only wear polycarbonate lenses?
                Ordinary acrylic lenses are 5 times tougher than
                glass. Polycarbonate [Lexan] is 125 times tougher.
                They are also a lot lighter. I had some add-on
                side covers that clipped onto them.

                It's not just the idiotic things we do, it's
                what the idiots around us do as well. That bar
                clamp could well have taken out my eye. The scratch
                on the polycarbonate lens was quite deep. We were
                making early American furniture repros at the time.
                That was a heavy case.

                One day I was welding up a 24 x 24 x 48" polypropylene
                tank and I wasn't using power tools at that moment so
                I took off the face shield - easier to breathe.
                I used to be able to wear hard contacts. I was then.
                Anyway, I got a bubble under one of the stick welds
                and I heated it and pressed on it with the side of
                an x-acto knife to seal it. The knife blade broke
                {I didn't think I was pushing that hard) and struck
                me directly in the left contact splitting it into
                six pieces, some of which flew out of and some of
                which went up inside the lid of my eye. At that
                particular moment I was standing there in the middle
                of thousands of semi-transparent flakes of polypropylene
                from routing it [Used a faceshield then.] Timing is
                everything. A needle in a stack of needles.

                I'm standing there thinking that my contact lens may be
                on the floor and whole, and that the knife blade may
                just be sticking into my eye. It felt like it.
                So I yell, and eventually two goobs come around the wall
                from the vacuumforming room.
                "Is the knifeblade stuck in my eye?" No.

                "Can you find my contact somewhere around me without
                breaking it?" Yep. Eventually they found two pieces of it.

                We got the rest of it out of my eye. Driving home
                one-eyed in rush hour traffic through town was
                interesting.

                Here's where I really screwed up. I should have seen
                an eye doctor immediately for treatment not two days later.
                We had no insurance other than workman's comp.

                The cornea and eye were slightly scratched. I got a viral
                infection that spread to both eyes and took 8 months
                to treat, I nearly went blind because of it in -both- eyes
                as they connect to each other in a Y behind them.
                An injury in one can cost you both. I didn't know that.
                I can't wear contacts now because as a result - my
                eyes won't produce enough liquid to float them anymore.
                The alternative would be to wear contacts and rot the
                corneas as that is the one place in the body not
                supplied by the bloodstream but fed by the tear solution.
                Those proteins are the 'floaters' you sometimes notice.

                Oh yeah, I got in the habit of always carrying eye drop
                solution. Helped me [and others] with various dusts and
                bits in our eyes a lot over the years. Some things will
                bounce around the lenses/even faceshield at times.
                Like off your nose.

                Bits of stuff fly worse than Tinkerbelle at times.

                I was in a bookstore one night in the technical area
                when this woman started talking about how much her
                family loved the Woodwright's Shop. About two weeks
                later Roy was filming an episode at the Raleigh NC
                State Fairgrounds Fleamarket - in my old friend's
                Jesse Stuart's booth about buying old tools. Jesse's
                been dead close to fifteen years now. A Colonel who'd
                been shot in the heart in Korean combat and survived.

                Right before Roy went in front of the camera I mentioned
                to him how much this woman really liked him. Of course he
                was eating it up - "She said her whole family just
                loves you - how you magically flit about the shop and
                make all sorts of things - said they call you the 'Wood Fairy'!"
                Still beet red on camera two minutes later. ;)

                I may see him again here in Raleigh at the July MWTCA meeting.
                He filmed it last year - Fools for Tools episode. My wife
                managed to misplace the mailed meeting notice and I missed it.
                Well, there went my fifteen seconds of immortality.

                If this was radio, and it reached forever into outer space
                I damn well guarantee you Marvin Martian really would bomb
                the place. Email can drive you nuts. Maybe Bugs Bunny would
                be effective in Iraq.

                Magnus
              • rmhowe
                ... On saws and jointers it s always better to keep as many fingers as possible hooked over the top of the fence. Which is exactly why Biesemeyer and some
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 19, 2003
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                  John LaTorre wrote:
                  >
                  > Master Charles ("Three Fingers") wrote:
                  >>Well. OK, there I was. Wed afternoon. turnin' bowls on my lathe.
                  >
                  > <tragic tale snipped>
                  >
                  >>THIS NOTE IS BEING PUT UP AS A SAFTY REMINDER.
                  >
                  > Well, since this is "true confessions" time, and to make Master Charles
                  > feel a little better, I went and did something foolish last March. I tried
                  > to plane a small block of wood (tail block for a hurdy-gurdy) on a jointer
                  > and the wood caught, kicked back, and took off the last eighth of an inch
                  > from my right index finger (including the end of the nail). I didn't know
                  > jointers could kick back.

                  On saws and jointers it's always better to keep as many fingers as
                  possible hooked over the top of the fence. Which is exactly why
                  Biesemeyer and some other wide fences have high faceplates.
                  Less chance of your hand being dragged in. There might be something
                  left with a tablesaw, with a jointer you are just ground meat
                  and they are going to have to remove more or pull a patch off
                  some other part of your poor pitiful ass to close the wound.

                  I seem to remember being smacked with the back end of a jointed
                  piece that was too short once. Caught me in the heel of the
                  hand. Nothing worse than a slight bruise. Seems like it was
                  short grain going out the side. I've owned four. I have set
                  and worked on many up to 14" wide and eight feet long.

                  Learning -how- to use a jointer is a distinct art.
                  I don't have time to expound on it now.
                  A lot of it has to do with hand pressure that is shifted
                  as you work.

                  Somewhere I also have an old article on learning to tune
                  your bandsaw. A lot seriously need it. I have adjusted
                  and rebuilt a number of them up to 36".

                  Incidentally, a pack of cards is a great thing to have around
                  to true your tablesaw fence with to make it straight. Test with a good
                  level or straight edge, loosen screws, insert cards or paper
                  and retighten. Test with a square as well. It should be 90
                  degrees to the table.

                  A really good book(s) to buy is Delta's 'How to get the most
                  out of your (Tablesaw, scrollsaw, jointer, bandsaw, lathe etc.).
                  I have most of them myself. Rosario Capotosto's books for
                  Shopsmith and other machinery is where you learn the most
                  tricks. See old write-up below.

                  Master Magnus, OL [SCA], GDH, Manx, Regia.org

                  > Come to think of it, the guy who sold me the jointer had nine fingers. I
                  > wonder if, once these things taste human blood...

                  This was good advice once, with new people it can't hurt to
                  give it again, it's been a year or two:

                  Authors I highly recommend are Rosario J. DeCristoforo's books on
                  woodworking machinery techniques, Paul Hasluck's books on
                  -everything- (you may think I'm kidding - I'm not), Holtzapffel's
                  lathe work and abrasive applications and working odd materials books
                  (5), most anything by the early Audel Guides (pre-50's)
                  -in particular- the Audels Carpenters and Builders Guides 1-4 by
                  Frank Graham, Aldren A. Watson's Country Furniture, Hand tools,
                  Village Blacksmith, (don't take -some- of the techniques in his
                  Furniture making Plain and Simple as gospel, he was mostly an
                  accomplished illustrator similar to Irving Sloane), and -anything-
                  by Fred T. Hodgson. Alexander Weygers' modern books on blacksmithing
                  are also useful for beginners (as is Sam Allen's Edge of the Anvil).
                  The three of them have been recombined into one now. I have the
                  older editions. Many of these men were simply geniuses of their
                  times and largely unmatched in ours.

                  R.J. DeCristoforo showed machinery manufacturers new techniques they'd
                  never envisioned for their machinery. The man wrote many books and
                  thousands of articles for technical magazines. Many of his furniture
                  building/remodelling designs are very dated to their decades though,
                  so I don't recommend buying those as strongly as I do the Power
                  Tool Woodworking for Everyone (something written largely for
                  Shopsmith machine owners but good none the less) and most especially
                  _DeCristoforo's Complete Book of Power Tools_. Sadly the man passed
                  away a few years ago. His son writes now, but so far is not as
                  good as his dad. Maybe he'll improve a lot like Norm Abrams has.
                  (Norm Abrams has more tools donated to his show than any shop I ever
                  worked in had, including the university. The shop he works in
                  belongs to his producer btw. Rosario could school him quite a bit
                  regardless.)

                  Don't assume I'm talking strictly carpentry books here, some of
                  these guys wrote on many trades applications. And the older Delta
                  Guides books on machinery applications are extremely good.
                  How to use your Table saw, Scroll saw, Band saw, Jointer, Lathe, etc.
                  Popular Mechanics and Popular Science used to write multiple annuals
                  on woodworking, metalworking, and projects like What to Make
                  for decades that are amazing magazines and books.
                  These authors cover everything from hand techniques to modern
                  machinery techniques with tools you'd never imagine. Mass production
                  put an end to such creativity - things people would do for fun
                  prior to the television and computers. We had very skilled ancestors
                  who made what they needed instead of buying it frequently.
                  For younger folks the Boy Mechanic books (4) were quite something.
                  Lindsay books sells some of them, so does http://www.leevalley.com/

                  http://www.lindsaybks.com/
                  Lindsay Publications, Inc.
                  P.O.Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915-0538
                  (fax 815) 935-5447
                  (815) 935-5353 phone
                  lindsay@...

                  For modern books on traditional techniques I would recommend any of
                  the five books by Roy Underhill in the Woodwright's series - a
                  term he coined - a wright is a worker in wood - just as a smith
                  is a worker in metal. Buy a good box of bandages. Roy uses a lot
                  of them. Had I invested in Johnson & Johnson prior to his shop
                  work I'd be a rich man.;) He is now Head of Historical Interpretation
                  at Colonial Williamsburg, was the head carpenter there, and has
                  filmed 200 episodes of the Woodwright's Shop. 1-800-PlayPBS.
                  1-800-693-3939 http://www.shop.pbs.org/ search Woodwright’s Shop

                  Some I have bought in past years before they disappeared:

                  Special Collection: Weald and Downland Open Air Museum, Sussex
                  England 1988.
                  Franconia Farm and Handiwork Musum I + II Iphofen, Bavaria 1988.
                  Running time: 1:24: 36.
                  WW001: Roy’s Special Collections: Williamsburg Craftsmen 1991.
                  Running time 79:38
                  WW010: Boatbuilding - Running time 1: 27: 13. 1993. Season 20:
                  2002: Turned Corner Chair; Item Code WOWS9202 $14.95
                  "Inspired by Bruegel paintings, this easily-stored, lathe-turned,
                  three-legged chair features a solid seat
                  style that has held hefty humans since the middle ages, running
                  time 26: 46.
                  2000 - 1912: Wayne Barton - Master Chip Carver, Running Time 26:46.
                  1-1309: The Geddy Foundry of Williamsburg, Running Time 26:46.
                  WW012: Norway Episodes, Running Time 60 minutes
                  1312 Lilihamer Open Air Museum
                  1313 Oslo - Ship Museum + Folk Museum + Stavekirk.
                  Norwegian Axe Framing and Log Cabins.
                  1512: Williamsburg Trunk Maker - Saddler’s Shop. 1995.
                  Running Time 26:46. Mostly leatherwork and stitching.
                  1805: Debate of the Carpenter’s Tools, 1998. Running Time 26:46.
                  2008: Marquetry Master Patrick Edwards, Season 20 WOWS9208
                  "French 18th-century "ebinestes" made furniture decorated
                  with pictures composed from thin sheets of colored wood.
                  Trained in Paris, Patrick Edwards shows the tools and
                  techniques of this lost art." $14.95 Running Time 26:46.
                  1913: Buckets for Beginners, 1999. Running Time 26:46.
                  9302: Welsh Chair Bodger Don Weber, Season 21,
                  "Roy builds a brilliant base for anyone's bottom, using
                  basic badgering, boiling, bending and boring in the
                  wonderful Welsh way of working wood." $14.50 4/01/03
                  9409: Williamsburg Wheelwright, Season 22, "Learn the exacting
                  trade of the men who make wooden wheels for Williamsburg's wagons."
                  $14.50 4/01/03
                  9413: Craftsmen of Old Sturbridge Village, Season 22, Explore the new
                  woodworking shop at Old Sturbridge Village where the planes get
                  fancy." $14.50 4/01/03
                  9209: In the Blacksmith Shop, Season 20, "Join Roy and the
                  blacksmiths at Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia, and learn how to
                  forge colonial hardware, tools and implements." $14.50 4/01/03
                  9211: Carving With the Cabinetmakers, Season 20. Roy visits the
                  cabinetmakers of the Hay Shop at Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia, as
                  they show off their skills at decorative
                  carving in the Colonial American style." $14.50 4/01/03
                  9312: Flintlock Gunsmith, Season 21. Watch Williamsburg workers wrest a
                  wonderful watchwork weapon of walnut and wrought steel to wound a
                  wascally wabbit or worrisome wedcoat. (Taped in Colonial
                  Williamsburg)" $14.50 4/01/03
                  I've been to Williamsburg twice and have about 600 pictures of the
                  various recreated tools, wheelbarrows, wagons, implements excavated.
                  Same with the 2 Jamestown Parks and the Glass House.

                  Anything by Drew Langsner, who teaches at his Country Workshops,
                  here in North Carolina, USA. This would include his Country Woodcraft,
                  Green Woodworking, Handmade (his first one), and Chair Making books.
                  These are all hand techniques. He predates Roy on some of them.

                  While these books are all from the last two centuries they are all
                  extremely useful books, especially considering most of the folks
                  on this list are not hacking trees generally to size with axes
                  and hand mortise chisels nowadays to build their reproductions.
                  You want to find out how to accomplish your tasks with what is
                  now available - look to the above authors.
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