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Re: [MedievalSawdust] New kid in town!

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  • Siegfried
    Yes Geffrei, the problem is, in this case, there is very little text in the first place right near that picture . Therefore I am hoping that Philippe might
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 2 8:01 AM
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      Yes Geffrei, the problem is, in this case, there is very little text in the first place 'right near that picture'.  Therefore I am hoping that Philippe might have been able to garner additional information ...

      I had already done a Google Translate on it.

      The important words on that page are:
      * Pieces of Archeology of the surroundings of the year thousand found in France.

      and:
      * Crossbow Square Charavine 1 half XI

      Besides saying that it is a 'Crossbow', the rest of the latter sentence doesn't make much sense.

      The title sentence says 'year thousand', so I would assume around 1000 ... but I was hoping that perhaps elsewhere on the website there was more information about specific year, or what region of France, etc. etc.  The stuff that you kinda need to read French and click around on the website to figure out.

      Plus this appears to be a website of a different reinacting company, and that is just a picture placed there by one of it's members.  Without any more details that I can see (perhaps there are there elsewhere) on what the picture is from/etc.

      Siegfried



      On 8/2/06, Geffrei Maudeleyne <Geffrei@...> wrote:

      Translation trick for many sites. Go to the page you want. Highlight and copy what looks like the title or heading for the first section. Go to Google. Do a paste with quotes around the entry. When the results come up. Choose the (translate this page) option. It is very literal but could point you in the right direction. Bablefish is also an option for closer research, though it tends to be literal.

      Geffrei

       


      From: Siegfried
      Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:54 AM
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com


      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] New kid in town!

       

      Philippe ... can you translate some of the text on the site around that crossbow?   I'm just wanting to know what they say about it, it's age, it's location/etc, anything!

      Siegfried

      On 8/1/06, GHISOLFO PHILIPPE < ghisolfo.philippe@...> wrote:

      Hi all,

      Did you finally open the URL I've sent you?

      Philippe G

      Visitez notre site web associatif:
      Visit our group web site:
      http://www.fiefetchevalerie.com

       

       

       




      --
      _________________________________________________________________________
      THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust   -   http://crossbows.biz/
      Barony of Highland Foorde   -   Baronial Archery Marshal
      Kingdom of Atlantia   -   Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
      http://eliw.com/  -   http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
    • Haraldr Bassi (yahoogroups)
      ... I would read that as 1st half of 11th Century so putting the piece between 1001 and 1050. It narrows it down a bit more for you as you were asking. It may
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 2 11:15 AM
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        Siegfried wrote:
        > Yes Geffrei, the problem is, in this case, there is very little text in the
        > first place 'right near that picture'. Therefore I am hoping that Philippe
        > might have been able to garner additional information ...
        >
        > I had already done a Google Translate on it.
        >
        > The important words on that page are:
        > * Pieces of Archeology of the surroundings of the year thousand found in
        > France.
        >
        > and:
        > * Crossbow Square Charavine 1 half XI

        I would read that as 1st half of 11th Century so putting the piece
        between 1001 and 1050. It narrows it down a bit more for you as you were
        asking. It may not be possible to date it any closer than a half century.

        Haraldr
      • ghalstead@adelphia.net
        Charavine = name of the locale where it was found. The local tourist website says: At Colletière, on the D50 from Charavines to Bilieu, there is an
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 2 11:18 AM
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          Charavine = name of the locale where it was found. The local tourist website says: "At Colletière, on the D50 from Charavines to Bilieu, there is an extremely interesting underwater archaeological site dating back to neolithic times (2700 BC) and the Middle Ages". An underwater site would explain the preservation of the wood.

          1 half XI = 1st half of the 11th Century - pretty standard European notation

          The site for the excavations is here: http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/charavines/en/index.htm

          And I'm going to do a major happy dance because there's a picture of a plane!

          Ranulf

          ---- Siegfried <SiegfriedFaust@...> wrote:
          > Yes Geffrei, the problem is, in this case, there is very little text in the
          > first place 'right near that picture'. Therefore I am hoping that Philippe
          > might have been able to garner additional information ...
          >
          > I had already done a Google Translate on it.
          >
          > The important words on that page are:
          > * Pieces of Archeology of the surroundings of the year thousand found in
          > France.
          >
          > and:
          > * Crossbow Square Charavine 1 half XI
          >
          > Besides saying that it is a 'Crossbow', the rest of the latter sentence
          > doesn't make much sense.
          >
          > The title sentence says 'year thousand', so I would assume around 1000 ...
          > but I was hoping that perhaps elsewhere on the website there was more
          > information about specific year, or what region of France, etc. etc. The
          > stuff that you kinda need to read French and click around on the website to
          > figure out.
          >
          > Plus this appears to be a website of a different reinacting company, and
          > that is just a picture placed there by one of it's members. Without any
          > more details that I can see (perhaps there are there elsewhere) on what the
          > picture is from/etc.
          >
          > Siegfried
        • Siegfried
          ... And here I just thought that was a word that bable/google wouldn t translate for me. Duh. ... Ahh, I didn t realize. I m used to only reading German,
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 2 12:35 PM
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            > Charavine = name of the locale where it was found.

            And here I just thought that was a word that bable/google wouldn't
            translate for me. Duh.

            > 1 half XI = 1st half of the 11th Century - pretty standard European notation

            Ahh, I didn't realize. I'm used to only reading German, given that
            most period documentation on crossbows happens to be german. In
            German you would get:
            früh 11. Jahrhundert ... or early 11th Century

            Thanks for the help folks!

            Siegfried


            --
            _________________________________________________________________________
            THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
            Barony of Highland Foorde - Baronial Archery Marshal
            Kingdom of Atlantia - Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
            http://eliw.com/ - http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
          • Beth and Bob Matney
            I would very much like to locate the archaeological reports of the artifacts from this site... The shuttles mentioned on the weaving page especially:
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 2 1:01 PM
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              I would very much like to locate the archaeological reports of the
              artifacts from this site... The shuttles mentioned on the weaving page
              especially:
              http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/charavines/en/chepay.htm
              If these are boat shuttles (as implied), they will be the earliest
              (approx1010 AD) that I have been able to locate.

              Any assistance would be extremely appreciated!

              Beth Matney

              At 01:18 PM 8/2/2006, Ranulf wrote:

              >Charavine = name of the locale where it was found. The local tourist
              >website says: "At Colletière, on the D50 from Charavines to Bilieu, there
              >is an extremely interesting underwater archaeological site dating back to
              >neolithic times (2700 BC) and the Middle Ages". An underwater site would
              >explain the preservation of the wood.
              >
              >1 half XI = 1st half of the 11th Century - pretty standard European notation
              >
              >The site for the excavations is here:
              >http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/charavines/en/index.htm
              >
              >And I'm going to do a major happy dance because there's a picture of a plane!
              >
              >Ranulf
            • James W. Pratt, Jr.
              But that is what you get when you have a historian set something up rather than an archer. But it came out of the same hole so they have to be together . I
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 2 1:05 PM
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                But that is what you get when you have a historian set something up rather than an archer.  "But it came out of the same hole so they have to be together".   I was reading the mag "Williamsburg Times"  about a them changing the name of a historical site from "Custers(sp) Last Stand" Battlefield to "Little Bighorn" battlefield.  And changing the name of a "lunatic asylum" to "mental ward" just so they would not scare off contributors to the historic site.   And we complain about the Victorians about rewriting history.
                 
                James Cunningham
                Too Old to be very PC
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Siegfried
                Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:52 AM
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] New kid in town!

                James,   (Sorry folks, getting all Crossbow on ya here) ...

                I'm having a hard time believing that that roller nut goes with that crossbow.

                Just looking at the side view, there is an obvious notch (although it is angled forward, not backwards as one would expect from a top lever notch lock) ... And then right behind the notch, in the 'perfect place', is a hole drilled to pin a top lever.

                It would certainly appear that the nut doesn't belong to that crossbow.

                Siegfried


                On 7/31/06, James W. Pratt, Jr. < cunning@...> wrote:
                That's what I was going to ask him I think.  I could open the first URL but not the other two. It looks like the bow I have seen befor but they have what looks like a roller nut with it.
                 
                James Cunningham

                --
                _________________________________________________________________________
                THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust   -   http://crossbows.biz/
                Barony of Highland Foorde   -   Baronial Archery Marshal
                Kingdom of Atlantia   -   Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                http://eliw.com/  -  http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
              • AlbionWood
                Ranulf, ... Why do you suppose it says ... to make tools handles in the caption? Maybe the sole is hollow? Or just speculation... It is nice to see such a
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 2 1:09 PM
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                  Ranulf,
                  > And I'm going to do a major happy dance because there's a picture of a plane!
                  >
                  >

                  Why do you suppose it says "... to make tools' handles" in the caption?
                  Maybe the sole is hollow? Or just speculation...

                  It is nice to see such a well-preserved plane from that time period.
                  And to see that it looks very much like certain modern planes, with that
                  crosspin for the wedge.

                  Love the carved saddle-bows, too.

                  Colin
                • JBRMM266@aol.com
                  I am a bit of a newcomer here, and am more of a student than a participant. My woodcrafting is of the most basic sort. Still, I find that this list is prone to
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 2 1:12 PM
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                     I am a bit of a newcomer here, and am more of a student than a participant. My woodcrafting is of the most basic sort.
                     
                    Still, I find that this list is prone to one of the problems that seems to permeate these lists: an identity crisis as to the subject of any given post.
                     
                    Several different topics have been discussed recently, all under the subject "New Kid in Town," where none of the discussions had anything to do with the newcomer.
                     
                    i entreat you, worthy gentles, when you start a new subject, to change the subject line on your post.
                     
                    Your servant aye
                    Donal Mac Ruiseart

                    Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
                  • Gary R. Halstead
                    It looks as if there are two books on the subject: Michel Colardelle, Eric Verdel. Chevaliers-paysans de l’an mil au lac de Paladru. Paris : Editions
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 2 2:44 PM
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                      It looks as if there are two books on the subject:

                      Michel Colardelle, Eric Verdel. Chevaliers-paysans de l’an mil au lac
                      de Paladru. Paris : Editions Errance ; [Grenoble] : Musée Dauphinois,
                      c1993. 119 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 23 cm. ISBN: 2877720764

                      This looks to be the "popular" work

                      Les Habitats du lac de Paladru (Isère) dans leur environnement : la
                      formation d’un terroir au XIe siècle / sous la direction de Michel
                      Colardelle et Eric Verdel ; préface de Christian Goudineau ; postface de
                      Robert Fossier.

                      Paris : Editions de la Maison des sciences de l’homme, 1993. 416 p. :
                      ill. ; 30 cm. ISBN: 2735104990

                      Book Description: This volume reports on the excavation of a fortified
                      settlement constructed in AD 1003 and abandoned in 1040 before being
                      submerged under Lake Paladru. Many artefacts were remarkably well
                      preserved, and analysis extending into the surrounding landscape helped
                      provide important information concerning architecture in wood, arts and
                      crafts, food supply and agriculture. Once again the rewards of wet-site
                      archaeology are amazing! 416p with 278 figs & 4 col plates.
                      (Documents d'Archaeologie Francaise 40, 1993).

                      Ranulf

                      Beth and Bob Matney wrote:
                      > I would very much like to locate the archaeological reports of the
                      > artifacts from this site... The shuttles mentioned on the weaving page
                      > especially:
                      > http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/charavines/en/chepay.htm
                      > If these are boat shuttles (as implied), they will be the earliest
                      > (approx1010 AD) that I have been able to locate.
                      >
                      > Any assistance would be extremely appreciated!
                      >
                      > Beth Matney
                      >
                      > At 01:18 PM 8/2/2006, Ranulf wrote:
                      >
                      >> Charavine = name of the locale where it was found. The local tourist
                      >> website says: "At Colletière, on the D50 from Charavines to Bilieu, there
                      >> is an extremely interesting underwater archaeological site dating back to
                      >> neolithic times (2700 BC) and the Middle Ages". An underwater site would
                      >> explain the preservation of the wood.
                      >>
                      >> 1 half XI = 1st half of the 11th Century - pretty standard European notation
                      >>
                      >> The site for the excavations is here:
                      >> http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/charavines/en/index.htm
                      >>
                      >> And I'm going to do a major happy dance because there's a picture of a plane!
                      >>
                      >> Ranulf
                    • Gary R. Halstead
                      I m guessing the sole is hollow (didn t realize the picture was clickable). Did you notice they said plane*s*, but no saws, hmmm. I wonder what else they
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 2 2:52 PM
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                        I'm guessing the sole is hollow (didn't realize the picture was
                        clickable). Did you notice they said plane*s*, but no saws, hmmm. I
                        wonder what else they found.

                        Ranulf

                        AlbionWood wrote:
                        > Ranulf,
                        >> And I'm going to do a major happy dance because there's a picture of a plane!
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        > Why do you suppose it says "... to make tools' handles" in the caption?
                        > Maybe the sole is hollow? Or just speculation...
                        >
                        > It is nice to see such a well-preserved plane from that time period.
                        > And to see that it looks very much like certain modern planes, with that
                        > crosspin for the wedge.
                        >
                        > Love the carved saddle-bows, too.
                        >
                        > Colin
                      • Robb Schuster
                        Les Habitats du lac de Paladru (Isère) dans leur environnement : la formation d un terroir au XIe siècle / sous la direction de Michel Colardelle et Eric
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 2 3:12 PM
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                          Les Habitats du lac de Paladru (Isère) dans leur environnement : la
                          formation d'un terroir au XIe siècle / sous la direction de Michel
                          Colardelle et Eric Verdel ; préface de Christian Goudineau ; postface de
                          Robert Fossier.
                           
                           
                          --Its a pretty interesting book but not so easy to find
                          Even via ILL I had to wait sometime to get a copy.
                          The good news is that about the last 20 pages or so of it is an english translastion
                          The bad news is they use 20 pages to sum up 300+ pages of French:(

                          Halv
                           

                           
                          On 8/2/06, Gary R. Halstead <ghalstead@...> wrote:

                          It looks as if there are two books on the subject:

                          Michel Colardelle, Eric Verdel. Chevaliers-paysans de l'an mil au lac
                          de Paladru. Paris : Editions Errance ; [Grenoble] : Musée Dauphinois,
                          c1993. 119 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 23 cm. ISBN: 2877720764

                          This looks to be the "popular" work

                          Les Habitats du lac de Paladru (Isère) dans leur environnement : la
                          formation d'un terroir au XIe siècle / sous la direction de Michel
                          Colardelle et Eric Verdel ; préface de Christian Goudineau ; postface de
                          Robert Fossier.

                          Paris : Editions de la Maison des sciences de l'homme, 1993. 416 p. :
                          ill. ; 30 cm. ISBN: 2735104990

                          Book Description: This volume reports on the excavation of a fortified
                          settlement constructed in AD 1003 and abandoned in 1040 before being
                          submerged under Lake Paladru. Many artefacts were remarkably well
                          preserved, and analysis extending into the surrounding landscape helped
                          provide important information concerning architecture in wood, arts and
                          crafts, food supply and agriculture. Once again the rewards of wet-site
                          archaeology are amazing! 416p with 278 figs &amp; 4 col plates.
                          (Documents d'Archaeologie Francaise 40, 1993).

                          Ranulf

                          Beth and Bob Matney wrote:
                          > I would very much like to locate the archaeological reports of the
                          > artifacts from this site... The shuttles mentioned on the weaving page
                          > especially:
                          > http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/charavines/en/chepay.htm
                          > If these are boat shuttles (as implied), they will be the earliest
                          > (approx1010 AD) that I have been able to locate.
                          >
                          > Any assistance would be extremely appreciated!
                          >
                          > Beth Matney
                          >
                          > At 01:18 PM 8/2/2006, Ranulf wrote:
                          >
                          >> Charavine = name of the locale where it was found. The local tourist
                          >> website says: "At Colletière, on the D50 from Charavines to Bilieu, there
                          >> is an extremely interesting underwater archaeological site dating back to
                          >> neolithic times (2700 BC) and the Middle Ages". An underwater site would
                          >> explain the preservation of the wood.
                          >>
                          >> 1 half XI = 1st half of the 11th Century - pretty standard European notation
                          >>
                          >> The site for the excavations is here:
                          >> http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/charavines/en/index.htm
                          >>
                          >> And I'm going to do a major happy dance because there's a picture of a plane!
                          >>
                          >> Ranulf




                          --
                          Halv

                          Never mistake the stary look in a huscarl's eye as reverance for a white belt...look to the beer in the chiv's hand.
                        • Beth and Bob Matney
                          Thank you VERY much! I ll track down copies of the books. Beth
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 2 4:25 PM
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                            Thank you VERY much!

                            I'll track down copies of the books.

                            Beth

                            At 04:44 PM 8/2/2006, you wrote:
                            >It looks as if there are two books on the subject:
                            >
                            >Michel Colardelle, Eric Verdel. Chevaliers-paysans de l’an mil au lac
                            >de Paladru. Paris : Editions Errance ; [Grenoble] : Musée Dauphinois,
                            >c1993. 119 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 23 cm. ISBN: 2877720764
                            >
                            >This looks to be the "popular" work
                            >
                            >Les Habitats du lac de Paladru (Isère) dans leur environnement : la
                            >formation d’un terroir au XIe siècle / sous la direction de Michel
                            >Colardelle et Eric Verdel ; préface de Christian Goudineau ; postface de
                            >Robert Fossier.
                            >
                            >Paris : Editions de la Maison des sciences de l’homme, 1993. 416 p. :
                            >ill. ; 30 cm. ISBN: 2735104990
                            >
                            >Book Description: This volume reports on the excavation of a fortified
                            >settlement constructed in AD 1003 and abandoned in 1040 before being
                            >submerged under Lake Paladru. Many artefacts were remarkably well
                            >preserved, and analysis extending into the surrounding landscape helped
                            >provide important information concerning architecture in wood, arts and
                            >crafts, food supply and agriculture. Once again the rewards of wet-site
                            >archaeology are amazing! 416p with 278 figs & 4 col plates.
                            >(Documents d'Archaeologie Francaise 40, 1993).
                            >
                            >Ranulf
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