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Re: Re: [medievalsawdust] Clamped-front Chests

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  • Danial Roy
    Viking Age furniture is M & T you can see examples in Viking to Crusader ... _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam?
    Message 1 of 15 , May 29 5:06 AM
      Viking Age furniture is M & T you can see examples in "Viking to Crusader"


      >From: Tim Bray <tbray@...>
      >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      >To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: Re: [medievalsawdust] Clamped-front Chests
      >Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 20:18:22 -0700
      >
      >
      > >A weak weak, net surf suggests that the M&T in
      > >Stonehenge was put place during it's 3rd phase at
      > >Sarsen Circle. That would put M&T joinery somewhere
      > >between 1500 and 2300 BC(E).
      >
      >Of course, Stonehenge can hardly be considered "furniture..."
      >
      >More relevant to their article would be all the 12th - 14th century
      >furniture made with M&T joints. English writers need to get out of England
      >now and again. Even within England, while there isn't much moveable
      >furniture from before 1450, there are 14th century choir-stalls, and of
      >course that remarkable 14th century canopy over the Cathedra in
      >Exeter. All pegged M&T joinery.
      >
      >It would be quite remarkable for a 13th or 14th century furniture-maker to
      >sit inside a building with visibly M&T joinery everywhere exposed, and
      >_not_ make the connection!
      >
      >Cheers,
      >Colin
      >
      >
      >Albion Works
      >Furniture and Accessories
      >For the Medievalist!
      >www.albionworks.net
      >www.albionworks.com
      >
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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      >
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      >

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    • rmhowe
      ... The Mortise and Tenon joints used on Stonehenge were somewhat semi-circular domes and holes if I recall. Fairly shallow. Nothing on the range of the
      Message 2 of 15 , May 29 2:26 PM
        Tim Bray wrote:

        > >A weak weak, net surf suggests that the M&T in
        > >Stonehenge was put place during it's 3rd phase at
        > >Sarsen Circle. That would put M&T joinery somewhere
        > >between 1500 and 2300 BC(E).

        The 'Mortise and Tenon' joints used on Stonehenge were somewhat semi-circular
        domes and holes if I recall. Fairly shallow. Nothing on the range of the
        stonework
        done by the Greeks and Romans where channels and holes were carved at the
        joints of important lintel stones with a wrought iron staple inserted and lead
        poured
        and pounded in around it in the holes. Since the Ancient Britons at that time
        were
        basically in the Bronze Age [with golden jewellery too] their metal tools at that
        time
        were not hard enough to shape the hard sarsen blue stones to accurate mortise and
        tenons.
        With a hammer stone though they could make depressions and raised 'bumps'.
        This still puts them far behind the stoneworkers of Peru who hammer-stoned stone
        joints in immense rocks so fine you cannot insert a knife between them.

        They've found six or seven more burials since the Archer from the Alps buried
        there
        recently at Stonehenge. The Golden Archer with all the gold artefacts. They
        determined
        where he came from by the percentage of oxygen isotopes in his teeth. Apparently
        they change with altitude.

        > Of course, Stonehenge can hardly be considered "furniture..."

        Well, it would make a seat for the Giant portrayed on the Chalk hill.
        The one with the sizable erection.
        I want to say the Cearne Giant is the right name for him.
        Since he is holding a club, could he be the progenitor of all
        stickjocks/rhinohides as well?

        Incidentally Real Dovetails were found used on the game boxes in King
        Tutankhamun's tomb.
        I have close-up full color pictures of them.

        And the Kubbesthuls of the Scandinavians [made by carving out the upside down
        base
        of a good sized tree] were in use by the Ancient Etruscans. Very elaborate ones
        have
        been found in their tombs. One was so highly decorated it was considered a high
        status
        throne. One I have seen recently is in a Time-Life book on the Ancient Etruscans
        currently being sold out by Barnes and Noble for about $6.

        Magnus

        > More relevant to their article would be all the 12th - 14th century
        > furniture made with M&T joints. English writers need to get out of England
        > now and again. Even within England, while there isn't much moveable
        > furniture from before 1450, there are 14th century choir-stalls, and of
        > course that remarkable 14th century canopy over the Cathedra in
        > Exeter. All pegged M&T joinery.
        >
        > It would be quite remarkable for a 13th or 14th century furniture-maker to
        > sit inside a building with visibly M&T joinery everywhere exposed, and
        > _not_ make the connection!
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Colin
        >
        > Albion Works
        > Furniture and Accessories
        > For the Medievalist!
        > www.albionworks.net
        > www.albionworks.com
        >
      • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
        ... Well, if you really want to know... I was watching ( and poking fun of ) the New Yankee Workshop with Duke Edmund and a squire brother of mine. Norm was
        Message 3 of 15 , May 29 2:45 PM
          >
          > Of course, Stonehenge can hardly be considered
          > "furniture..."
          >

          Well, if you really want to know...

          I was watching ( and poking fun of ) the
          New Yankee Workshop with Duke Edmund and
          a squire brother of mine.

          Norm was building a workbench.

          We figured that if Norm had to have a workbench
          to build a workbench, it was impossible to
          build a workbench without a workbench.

          So... Somewhere in prehistory there was the
          first workbench.

          Stonehenge.

          If you are wondering why it's so big....

          Remember that there are stories of Irish
          giants that helped build stonehenge.

          My research has led me to conclude that they
          really weren't building stonehenge but using it
          to build other things. The confusion is a result
          of no one being tall enough to see the top of the
          bench to see what was being worked on.

          As to finding more evidence to support this
          theory. I feel that it's simply a occurance
          of a phenomena that occurs today in workshops
          around the world. You ghet busy working on
          something, you turn around and your pencil
          is gone....

          Think about how much could dissapear over
          a span of 1000 years...

          One of these days I'll get around to publishing
          my theory, and you can all say 'I knew him when...'



          =====
          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
          Aude Aliquid Dignum
          ' Dare Something Worthy '

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        • rmhowe
          ... I keep wondering when Norm s finally going to learn how to cut tenons correctly. This guy has seriously messed up tons of people with his willy-nilly,
          Message 4 of 15 , May 31 9:55 PM
            Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:
            >>Of course, Stonehenge can hardly be considered
            >>"furniture..."
            >
            > Well, if you really want to know...
            >
            > I was watching ( and poking fun of ) the
            > New Yankee Workshop with Duke Edmund and
            > a squire brother of mine.

            I keep wondering when Norm's finally going to learn how to
            cut tenons correctly. This guy has seriously messed up
            tons of people with his willy-nilly, sometimes contradictory
            advice. Not that he's not getting better - because he is.

            On the other hand there has got to be a WAREHOUSE for all
            the tools he and his boss have donated to them. That is the
            Producer's shop, not Norm's by the way. The time they put him
            on the cover of Fine Woodworking some of the readership had
            a stroke. I felt sorry for him reading the next two issues.

            Granted, he's better than your average carpenter, probably
            95% of them, at least all the goobers but a couple I worked around.
            The average one couldn't operate a tablesaw safely.
            I've seen them stand sideways to the saw with one hand front
            and back to guide the workpiece through. Lots of accidents.

            I've worked in shops with thirty or more men and we didn't
            have the range of tools these guys get free. No copy lathe(s).
            No twenty-five routers. No jointing or $500 dovetail jigs donated.
            That was for a 30,000 person plus university woodshop.
            I did the custom work, designs, estimates, and maintenance on
            the equipment. Then my muscular/nervous system screwed up permanently.

            The funniest episode lately was the guy who sent in a $150
            aluminum jig to drill shelf peg holes with a router, probably
            had patented the thing, and Norm made a wooden copy of it on
            the show and is probably selling the plans. No doubt he was
            envisioning selling hundreds of them minimum, the inventor
            that is. I bet he turned beet red. Maybe looking into sueing.

            Or as Roy Underhill would put it "Let me sell you a measured
            Drawring" That's a Bahston accent by the way. Garbage always
            sounds like gobbage, which sounds to me like left overs from
            an SCA feast. Tomorrow's breakfast.

            > Norm was building a workbench.

            You mean the Tool Hutch? That was rich. You'd have to
            be rich. It was a thousand dollar project. Space for
            twenty drills.

            > We figured that if Norm had to have a workbench
            > to build a workbench, it was impossible to
            > build a workbench without a workbench.

            That's quite logical.

            > So... Somewhere in prehistory there was the
            > first workbench.
            >
            > Stonehenge.

            Good story followed. Thanks.

            Magnus, former woodworking professional.
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