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Re: Safety Note

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  • John LaTorre
    ... ... Well, since this is true confessions time, and to make Master Charles feel a little better, I went and did something foolish
    Message 1 of 17 , May 28, 2003
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      Master Charles ("Three Fingers") wrote:

      > Well. OK, there I was. Wed afternoon. turnin' bowls on my lathe.

      <tragic tale snipped>

      > THIS NOTE IS BEING PUT UP AS A SAFTY REMINDER.

      Well, since this is "true confessions" time, and to make Master Charles
      feel a little better, I went and did something foolish last March. I tried
      to plane a small block of wood (tail block for a hurdy-gurdy) on a jointer
      and the wood caught, kicked back, and took off the last eighth of an inch
      from my right index finger (including the end of the nail). I didn't know
      jointers could kick back. I do now. My visit to the hospital lasted eight
      and a half hours ... on a Saturday night in a downtown emergency room, a
      guy with just an owie on his finger doesn't rate a lot of attention.

      Two and a half months later, it's almost healed now, although it looks a
      bit strange and feels stranger. I did manage to play the harp again last
      weekend a little bit, and it didn't hurt too much. It looks like the nail's
      going to grow back normally, too. I was lucky. The bards didn't have to
      make up a song about "Nine-fingered Johann and the Jointer of Doom."

      Come to think of it, the guy who sold me the jointer had nine fingers. I
      wonder if, once these things taste human blood...

      --

      John LaTorre (Johann von Drachenfels)

      "Always do right. It will gratify some people & astonish the rest."
      --Mark Twain
    • James Winkler
      Holy cow!!! I hadn t considered this. I ll have to tell you re tale to m lady so that she ll understand when I sell the vicious thing I have and buy a
      Message 2 of 17 , May 28, 2003
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        Holy cow!!!  I hadn't considered this…  I'll have to tell you're tale to m'lady so that she'll understand when I sell the vicious thing I have and buy a larger…   er…. TAMER one…  Winking smiley emoticon
         
        Chas.
        John wrote:

        Come to think of it, the guy who sold me the jointer had nine fingers. I
        wonder if, once these things taste human blood...
      • James W. Pratt, Jr.
        What wimps! You should see how scary a 6 chain saw bar looks when you are holding the none engine end. How about moving logs so big that you stear the
        Message 3 of 17 , May 28, 2003
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          What wimps! You should see how scary a 6' chain saw bar looks when you are holding the none engine end.  How about moving logs so big that you stear the tractor with the brakes because the front wheels are off the ground.  How about a 11HP band saw. How about cutting down a 36" diameter tree with a 16" chain saw.  How about getting a 60 foot tall trees to hang up in other trees for days befor it came down(that is called a widow maker). I feel very good that my judgment and shear luck has kept me down to a few relatively minor cuts.  But I know that I have to be more careful(use better judgment) the older I get because the luck factor(and the speed to get my feet and fingers out of the way) will not stay with me forever.
           
          James Cunningham
          With one good scar on each hand for the stupid things I've done.

          Holy cow!!!  I hadn't considered this…  I'll have to tell you're tale to m'lady so that she'll understand when I sell the vicious thing I have and buy a larger…   er…. TAMER one…  Winking smiley emoticon
           
          Chas.
          John wrote:

          Come to think of it, the guy who sold me the jointer had nine fingers. I
          wonder if, once these things taste human blood...


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        • Lew Newby
          Hey Charlie three fingers, you know that is a hell of a way to get out of helping with the move in when I get out there. ;) hehehehe Damn I ll bet that hurt.
          Message 4 of 17 , May 28, 2003
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            Hey Charlie three fingers, you know that is a hell of a way to get out of helping with the move in when I get out there. ;) hehehehe

            Damn I'll bet that hurt. Sorry to hear about it.Certainly tops me sliding my hand into a narrow space in my car and slicing my arm open on the metal. No stitches just ugly.

            Farin


            At 03:29 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, James Winkler wrote:
            <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" />
            Well…   OK, there I was…  Wed afternoon… turnin' bowls on my lathe.  "I have time to turn one more," sez I… so I did.  But…  rather than using the parting tool to separate the bowl from the waste in the chuck…  well… the BANDSAW is handy (and… hey…  done it a hundred times!!!)
             
            Well…  things went wrong and the blade (4.5 TPI) caught and rolled the bowl… and my fingers into the blade…   now, as luck would have it…  the damage could have been MUCH worse,  The fingers are all still attached but it will take 6 to 8 weeks for the tendon and bone fracture to heel on the middle finger to heal,,, and wo knows what the finger nail on the ring finger will look like.  (Oh,,,  the fingers are all there..  no missin parts.  They're just not as functional at the moment as the once were…)
             
            What caused the accident was trying to hold a round piece going into the saw that was improperly suppoted and held,,, (and… being "bowl shaped"… the side I was cutting was elevated from the saw table,,,  the only part touching the table was a bit of the outer rim of the bowl…  and that was the furthest point of the blade)… 
             
            THIS NOTE IS BEING PUT UP AS A SAFTY REMINDER…  just because you've done it 'a hundred times'…  when it goes wrong… it will go wrong quickly and in a very bad way.  A hour and 20 minutes in an operating room is a poor exchange for saving 5 minutes doing a proper saw set=up…  and typing with one hand is the pits…
             
            Your most obd't servant -
            Chas. Oakley 
             
            (or 'Charlie 3-fingers' as some of my friends were callin' me this lasy weekend.)

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            Lew Newby Jr                                                   gideon@...
                                                                          http://www.neei.com/~gideon

            ****** Draco aliquando vincit (at some time the dragon conquers) - Anon ******

          • Lew Newby
            Hey that isn t being a wimp. Those are war wounds and battle scars to ruminate over when your an old man. Oh yea Charlie three fingers there is an old
            Message 5 of 17 , May 28, 2003
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              Hey that isn't being a wimp. Those are war wounds and battle scars to ruminate over when your     an old man. Oh yea Charlie three fingers there is an "old man" :) I forgot. Hey Charlie your not supposed to do that anymore. You just supposed to offer the opportunity to take a trip on the Way Back Machine to hear all about the adventures in water powered saws and the first table saw accident.

              Farin


              At 12:46 AM 5/29/2003 -0400, you wrote:
              What wimps! You should see how scary a 6' chain saw bar looks when you are holding the none engine end.  How about moving logs so big that you stear the tractor with the brakes because the front wheels are off the ground.  How about a 11HP band saw. How about cutting down a 36" diameter tree with a 16" chain saw.  How about getting a 60 foot tall trees to hang up in other trees for days befor it came down(that is called a widow maker). I feel very good that my judgment and shear luck has kept me down to a few relatively minor cuts.  But I know that I have to be more careful(use better judgment) the older I get because the luck factor(and the speed to get my feet and fingers out of the way) will not stay with me forever.
               
              James Cunningham
              With one good scar on each hand for the stupid things I've done.
              Holy cow!!!  I hadn't considered this…  I'll have to tell you're tale to m'lady so that she'll understand when I sell the vicious thing I have and buy a larger…   er…. TAMER one…  Emoticon31.gif
               
              Chas.
              John wrote:

              Come to think of it, the guy who sold me the jointer had nine fingers. I
              wonder if, once these things taste human blood...


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              Lew Newby Jr                                                   gideon@...
                                                                            http://www.neei.com/~gideon

              ****** Draco aliquando vincit (at some time the dragon conquers) - Anon ******

            • James Winkler
              WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT THE FIRST TABLE SAW ACCIDENT??? There weren t no video cameras (or any other kind for that fact) way back then. and I swear. both of the
              Message 6 of 17 , May 29, 2003
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                WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT THE FIRST TABLE SAW ACCIDENT???  There weren't no video cameras (or any other kind for that fact) way back then…  and I swear… both of the 'safety rocks' were in place… HONEST!!! 
                 
                Charlie-three-fingers
                 
                =================
                 
                >> Hey Charlie your not supposed to do that anymore. You just
                supposed to offer the opportunity to take a trip on the Way Back Machine to hear all about the adventures in water powered saws and the first table saw accident.    ---  Farin  <<<
                 


                 

                 

              • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                ... If you had been using handtools like a good woodworking Laurel you could have stopped sawing before you cut your fingers half off...... ===== Baron Conal
                Message 7 of 17 , May 29, 2003
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                  --- James Winkler <jrwinkler@...> wrote:
                  > WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT THE FIRST TABLE SAW ACCIDENT???
                  > There weren't no video cameras (or any other kind
                  > for that fact) way back then. and I swear. both of
                  > the 'safety rocks' were in place. HONEST!!!
                  >
                  > Charlie-three-fingers
                  >

                  If you had been using handtools like a good
                  woodworking Laurel you could have stopped sawing
                  before you cut your fingers half off......

                  =====
                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                  Aude Aliquid Dignum
                  ' Dare Something Worthy '

                  __________________________________
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                • Patricia Emery
                  ... for the tendon and bone fracture to heel on the middle finger to heal,,, and wo knows what the finger nail on the ring finger will look like. (Oh,,, the
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 30, 2003
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                    >"...The fingers are all still attached but it will take 6 to 8 weeks
                    for the tendon and bone fracture to heel on the middle finger to
                    heal,,, and wo knows what the finger nail on the ring finger will
                    look like. (Oh,,, the fingers are all there.. no missin parts.
                    They're just not as functional at the moment as the once were.)..."

                    Make certain you get a good physical therapist to get those fingers
                    working again once they're healed! My dad almost detached his thumb
                    about a year ago working on some fancy boxes for the Principality
                    Coronets. Table saw - practically cut his thumb clean through - he
                    still doesn't know what went wrong. (He's been working with such
                    equipment for over forty years...) Through hard work, and the skill
                    of his therapist, the thumb is ALMOST as good as new. Of course, I'm
                    certain the skill of the micro-hand surgeon who re-attached the
                    tendon had something to do with how well it's done, too!

                    Hope you heal quickly!

                    Jessimond
                  • rmhowe
                    ... One of my fellow students in Industrial Arts went to work for Carolina Builders in their fabrication shop instead of teaching. One day he was using a dado
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 31, 2003
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                      Patricia Emery wrote:
                      >>"...The fingers are all still attached but it will take 6 to 8 weeks
                      >
                      > for the tendon and bone fracture to heel on the middle finger to
                      > heal,,, and wo knows what the finger nail on the ring finger will
                      > look like. (Oh,,, the fingers are all there.. no missin parts.
                      > They're just not as functional at the moment as the once were.)..."

                      One of my fellow students in Industrial Arts went to work for
                      Carolina Builders in their fabrication shop instead of teaching.
                      One day he was using a dado blade on the table saw - it kickbacked
                      the workpiece and took out both middle fingers all the way into
                      the wrist. After 7 operations, at the point I last saw him, he's
                      got a three fingered hand and partial use of it. It provided a
                      good down payment on the house he wanted though.

                      > Make certain you get a good physical therapist to get those fingers
                      > working again once they're healed! My dad almost detached his thumb
                      > about a year ago working on some fancy boxes for the Principality
                      > Coronets.

                      Have seen a thumb end cut off that didn't take grafting back on.
                      In that case it was because the man (actually the machine shop
                      foreman) had placed his thumb directly behind the cut through
                      six inch thick material. When the blade popped through, the end
                      of the thumb popped off and the dance ensued. We saved the end in
                      ice, but it didn't take. I'd say your dad was lucky. Johnny had
                      already stuck his fingers in several other things in the shop.
                      He quit not long after that.

                      > Table saw - practically cut his thumb clean through - he
                      > still doesn't know what went wrong. (He's been working with such
                      > equipment for over forty years...) Through hard work, and the skill
                      > of his therapist, the thumb is ALMOST as good as new. Of course, I'm
                      > certain the skill of the micro-hand surgeon who re-attached the
                      > tendon had something to do with how well it's done, too!

                      You didn't say if it was a kick back, which I would guess it was.

                      One of the most important things -never to do- is to try to pick
                      up a board until it is well past the back of the blade and tips up.
                      Picking one up near the blade means the blade can grab it and toss
                      or frisbee it right back into you. This was one of my first
                      experiences with a shop saw. I've seen the same thing happen many
                      times since to other men. Warning some people beforehand didn't
                      always work as well as it did after they'd been hit. Amazing how
                      it opened their ears to advice afterwards. "Naw - it couldn't
                      possibly happen to me." I saw one man drop just as if he were
                      pole-axed. Not a sound. I thought he might just be dead. Got
                      hit right in the gonads. Passed out.

                      It's good to have an outfeed table, but if you're working a
                      lot of small parts they can be a real inconvenience to
                      walk around and unload.

                      The other thing is to make sure the inside of the saw box is
                      -clean-.

                      The worst I ever got hurt was when I was ripping material for
                      a 600' plastic drainage system out of polypropylene to be welded
                      together later. Because plastics melt with much friction we were
                      acccustomed to use rip blades with few teeth and large gullets.
                      In this case I was cutting 3/4" polypropylene sheet into
                      45 degree angled pieces and the saw was tearing out shreds of
                      plastic about six inches long each. This particular saw didn't
                      have a bag or box under it and was open to the floor so I never
                      imagined that shreds were building up against the rear wall.

                      What happened was the rip saw grabbed a good sized gob of the
                      shreds and brought them up through the too small kerf and I
                      got hit so hard with a chunk of plastic I got an instant purple
                      yellow bruise on my lower abdomen about the size of a #10 shoe.
                      The blade also went barely through my four fingernails.
                      I suppose you could say that was lucky. It was unforseen.

                      Never back up on a cut or let the workpiece slide backwards in one.
                      That will throw a board horizontally with a tremendous amount
                      of force. I've seen complete idiots walk away from saws still
                      running in the middle of a cut and have people working down
                      shop who could have been killed. That was a 7 1/2 horsepower saw.
                      I've seen it throw forty pound boards horizontal sixty feet into
                      the door.

                      Another thing that can happen is the board being case-hardened
                      during an improper drying process. What happens is the outside
                      is a different moisture content than the inside. When you are
                      working this stuff it sometimes clamps right down on the blade
                      and even -stops- the blade. You can easily burn out a motor this
                      way. When we were ripping 2" thick material and there was a brick
                      wall behind me I'd simply step sideways and let go. It was safer
                      than taking both hands off a 5 horsepower saw and possibly getting
                      nailed with the board trying to hold it one handed. I realize this
                      sounds a bit weird but when I considered what happened to me
                      previously it was a thoroughly sensible idea. Every now and then
                      I'd run into one of these differentially dried pieces in the
                      stacks of wood. Sometimes they'd widen in the kerf as you cut
                      them and sometimes they'd simply clamp down on the blade.
                      Either way it can be dangerous.

                      Personally I recommend a splitter Delta used to sell (may or
                      may not now) that can telescope back into the saw box behind
                      the blade, and an overhead Biesemeyer counterweighted blade
                      cover. The first was about $25, the last several hundred.
                      Biesemeyer fences are the best made.

                      Back in those days OSHA didn't have its nose in everybody's
                      business to the extent that it does now, and original saw
                      guards and splitters were so hard to reinstall and adjust
                      that if you did dadoing frequently you generally did without
                      the things and hoped you could delay the inspectors long
                      enough to reinstall them before they got past the front office.
                      Legally they can walk right through.

                      The State workshops used to be immune from OSHA laws.
                      Then the law changed and one day they walked in and shut down
                      half the machinery. None of it could be used until we had found,
                      bought, made, attached stuff that worked. I've spent hundreds of
                      hours fixing machinery or upgrading the safety equipment on it.
                      I not only had all our machinery to retrofit, but the machinery
                      of two other shops as well. Fortunately I'd been trained well.
                      All of a sudden the state coffers opened up and I could buy
                      exactly what we needed. Small miracles like that are rare.

                      May I recommend push sticks? They are much cheaper than fingers.
                      A face shield can protect not only your eyes either. Loose knots
                      in wood can really smack you.

                      The saddest accident I ever saw the results of happened to a design
                      school graduate. Those people are grossly under-trained here at
                      NCSU manually. The man had been out of school for some time, and
                      like many of them was finding ways to make a living not employed
                      by a major firm. Lots of them go into carpentry/remodelling.

                      In this particular case the man had designed and built his own
                      house and had a shop underneath it. I met him because I was there
                      to buy a wood shaper from him. The bandage over his empty eye
                      socket was quite apparent. He was having to sell his house and
                      the equipment to pay the massive medical bills.

                      He'd been making expensive $250 bird houses with octagonal sides
                      and octagonal conical shingled roofs. They required little angled
                      pieces for the roof angles on them. He was using an old one
                      to set up his saw with and had his eye in line with the fence
                      and table top. He was reaching under the saw for the adjustment
                      handle and hit the switch instead. The piece hit him full force
                      directly in the eye. I suppose you might say he was lucky
                      because the bone in the back of they eye is paper thin and
                      the cerebral cortex doesn't have much protection. If he'd
                      gotten in a bit more it would have taken out both eyes as
                      the connection Y's there and the pineal gland.

                      Sears makes a switch that can be moved away from the blade
                      adjustment wheel and requires a keyed piece to operate.
                      The motor just plugs into it. All the other safety switches
                      I know of to retrofit older saws are more difficult and in
                      some cases require an experienced electrician to wire.

                      The worst case I know of that happened around here was a guy
                      trying to rip on a Sears radial saw. Either he was feeding
                      the wrong way and it pulled the board and him into it or he
                      slipped and stuck both arms under the saw just short of the
                      elbow. One was still partially attached. It was a miracle
                      he lived, especially as he lived in a remote area of the
                      county.

                      Incidentally, there was a safety recall on almost all older
                      Sears Craftsman radial saws. If you call them and provide the
                      model number they will send you a brand new saw guard and a
                      brand new table for the saw. I know. I read about it a couple
                      years back in Woodshop News and got one myself. It's free.

                      Ever wonder how fast an ordinary tablesaw can throw something?
                      Faster than you can blink.
                      10" blade X 3.14 X 3450 rpm divided by 12" = 9,207.5 fpm (1.74 miles
                      per minute) or 150.45 feet per second. This is for an ordinary saw.
                      Larger diameter blades are -much- faster. The saws really are
                      supposed to operate at 3600 rpm but they generally run a bit
                      slower in practice.

                      Magnus, OL, GDH, Regia.org

                      >
                      > Hope you heal quickly!
                      >
                      > Jessimond
                    • rmhowe
                      ... Oh my! That s both sharp and cold! But imagine what he could do with an AXE! Maybe the first sergeant s stripes were only the bent former digits sewn on
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 31, 2003
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                        Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:
                        > --- James Winkler <jrwinkler@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >>WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT THE FIRST TABLE SAW ACCIDENT???
                        >>There weren't no video cameras (or any other kind
                        >>for that fact) way back then. and I swear. both of
                        >>the 'safety rocks' were in place. HONEST!!!
                        >>
                        >>Charlie-three-fingers
                        >
                        > If you had been using handtools like a good
                        > woodworking Laurel you could have stopped sawing
                        > before you cut your fingers half off......
                        > - Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                        Oh my! That's both sharp and cold!
                        But imagine what he could do with an AXE!

                        Maybe the first sergeant's stripes were only the bent
                        former digits sewn on the sleeve as a warning to recruits.

                        No more 'Pluck Yew!' for Charlie Three Fingers I suppose.
                        That's what happens when you run out of arrows and can't
                        outrun the French. Shoulda worn a kilt instead and not
                        had your smalls drop around your ankles during your exit.

                        Magnus, OL, axe connoiseur.

                        Actually, I have a cast iron tablesaw that clamps to a table.
                        It has a 1" circular saw blade and is turned with a tiny
                        crank. On the off side is a small rotary file for cleaning
                        up joints. The table is like 2 x 2".

                        I suppose this would be similar to that tiny violin you're playing.
                      • James Winkler
                        ... Ironically, after about 30 years of playing with power tools this is the first oops! I ve had (. well, OK. the first one that required intervention from
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 1, 2003
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                          Magnus wrote:

                          >> Oh my!  That's both sharp and cold!
                          >> But
                          imagine what he could do with an AXE!
                           
                          Winking smiley emoticon  Ironically, after about 30 years of playing with power tools this is the first 'oops!' I've had (… well, OK… the first one that required intervention from a medical professional and couldn't be dealt with by a shop towel and a bandade)…  probably should have been others but I think my guardian angle took the day off when I was working on the bowl. 
                           
                          But.. an axe… OUCH!!!  So far I've had pretty good luck with those pointy objects… (but, of course, up until a few days ago I'd had pretty good luck with my band saw too…). 
                           
                          Really liked reading Magnus's 'the math behind why and how kickbacks happen'…  excellent explanation of pain in the making.  Norm did something similar on one of his shows years ago and calculated the number of teeth that goes through your hand between the time you get yer' fin'ners INTO the blade and the time you finally get em' out again.  Of course, individual reaction time, saw RPM and tooth count on the blade will impact the impressiveness of the count considerably… but not the net result!!!
                           
                          'pickin up me smalls and carrying on, I remain your most obdn't servant -
                          Chas.
                           
                          ================
                          Oh…  when 'new guys' come into my shop I always tell em' -
                           
                          "I got three rules in my shop:
                           
                          1:  When you leave you must have the same number of fingers and toes you cam in with.
                          2:  You can't borrow some from somebody else to make up a personal deficit.
                          3:  They must all work the same way as they did when ya' walked in…"
                           
                          OOPS… violated my own 'Rule 3'…  but the Doc sez' things are coming along fine.  Stitches should be out this coming Tuesday… they're planning on 'pulling the pin' (… ANOTHER experience I'm not looking forward to…) in about 5 or 6 weeks…  Tra-la… then I can go back to being Charlie=five-fingers again…
                           
                           
                           
                        • rmhowe
                          ... My grandmother had several rusty dull axes when I was a kid. Just right so s they d hit you in the knee when the rounded edges slipped. I have a good
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 8, 2003
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                            James Winkler wrote:
                            > Magnus wrote:
                            >
                            > >> Oh my! That's both sharp and cold!
                            > >> But imagine what he could do with an AXE!
                            >
                            > Winking smiley emoticon Ironically, after about 30 years of playing
                            > with power tools this is the first 'oops!' I've had (… well, OK… the
                            > first one that required intervention from a medical professional and
                            > couldn't be dealt with by a shop towel and a bandade)… probably should
                            > have been others but I think my guardian angle took the day off when I
                            > was working on the bowl.
                            >
                            > But.. an axe… OUCH!!! So far I've had pretty good luck with those
                            > pointy objects… (but, of course, up until a few days ago I'd had pretty
                            > good luck with my band saw too…).

                            My grandmother had several rusty dull axes when I was a kid.
                            Just right so's they'd hit you in the knee when the rounded
                            edges slipped. I have a good thirty or more presently of all
                            sizes. Presently looking about for handles for four newer
                            Viking axe reproductions. I need 1 1/2" thick ash after planing.

                            I got my first hand scythe last year and tried using it on
                            the crap growing through the back fence. The knee got holed
                            pretty quickly. The good one of course, the one I can still
                            climb some stairs with. The knee was pissed.

                            > Really liked reading Magnus's 'the math behind why and how kickbacks
                            > happen'… excellent explanation of pain in the making.

                            Thank you. Been watching that happen a long time.

                            You would probably be amazed looking at the radial grooves I've
                            seen cut in the bottom of small square boards by some people too
                            during kickbacks. My first and only one like that occured during
                            my first experience on a saw. Right in front of four girls I got
                            frisbeed right in the nuts. Grin and bear it. We were cutting
                            maple into octagonal tops for three legged walnut candlestands.
                            Damned nice piece of furniture though.

                            I don't know if I told this story here or not.

                            When I worked for the first plastics company all the big stuff
                            was cut on a 12 x 12 foot panel saw that had a 7 1/2 horsepower
                            saw riding on three tubes above the saw slot in the table.
                            14" saw as I recall. As the saw was drawn cutting from the back
                            with the teeth from the back everything we cut had to be clamped
                            down at the fence on the front of the table. Some plastic is
                            slicker than other plastic. Some days I cut up $5000 worth for
                            windshields and the like.

                            Randy, the asshole submissive boss I had, got in a new 14" blade
                            with only about twenty rip teeth on it. I took one look at it
                            and said I'm not going to cut with that thing on that saw.
                            He said set it up anyway and he'd cut the first cut.

                            So I put the 3/4" full sized sheet of polypropylene on the
                            table and clamped the clamps down tight, all six of them.

                            Randy started to feed the blade into the sheet and WHAM!.
                            The saw climbed up on the plastic, shattered the $150 sheet,
                            wrenched the tubes, and tore all 20 teeth off his new $75
                            saw blade flying around like shrapnel. Of course he said
                            I didn't clamp it tight enough. Shit, I couldn't have
                            tightened them any more with anything less than a pipe
                            on the handles. Polypropylene is tough stuff, not quite
                            polycarbonate, but tough.

                            Normally if we were cutting 2x4s" or 2x6's" for vacuum
                            boxes if a piece came loose the saw would simply chop
                            through it, bounce it off the rear wall, the ceiling
                            and hit the other end of the 60 foot long shop room
                            before we could turn around. It never hit us in the
                            process. It would saw through maybe a third of the
                            broken board. We used toggle clamps fastened to the
                            table top. About 200 pounds each.

                            I've seen lots of guys do stuff I advised against
                            and then I went and stood behind a steel and concrete
                            column. Some people have to pee on the electric fence
                            for themselves. When someone else was liable to get
                            hurt though their stupidity is when I dived in and
                            stopped them for real. Not worth arguing with stupid
                            idiots generally. Besides, if they're gone maybe you
                            get someone smarter to replace them.

                            When I quit the furniture shop I used to run for a few
                            years the guy the man tried to replace me with stuck
                            half his hand in the jointer and sued him. You can't
                            repair anything that's been lost in a jointer. Didn't see
                            that one myself. Everyone competent I knew quit within
                            two weeks of the time I did. He's not in that business
                            anymore. Did offer me a $2 an hour raise to come back.
                            Nope. Didn't do that. Talked to his Dad in front of us
                            like a dog. One Monday he argued with me. By Wednesday
                            I had another job, and quit after filling out the checks
                            for everyone on Friday. In front of his dad I handed him
                            the key and reminded him of the argument. No I wasn't
                            getting up an hour earlier in the morning to suit him.
                            I worked 45 hours a week without overtime as it was.
                            He'd moved the shop twenty more miles out of town.
                            Wasn't worth the extra gas and truck repairs.

                            I never argue with anyone whose ass I'm not prepared
                            to trash. ;)

                            Magnus
                          • James Winkler
                            ... ALlRIGHT!!! WHO RATTED ME OUT!!! (… a very bad accidental 12 year old experience. I d run my fingers through a bandsaw again before I d repeat that
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 9, 2003
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                              Magnus wrote:
                              >> Some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

                              ALlRIGHT!!! WHO RATTED ME OUT!!! (… a very bad accidental 12 year old
                              experience. I'd run my fingers through a bandsaw again before I'd repeat
                              that one!!!) Wow… there is NOTHING more painful…

                              Chas. (who is suddenly somewhat amazed that he's still alive after all these
                              years…)
                            • Tim Bray
                              ... Think how your mother must feel! ;-) Cheers, Colin Albion Works Furniture and Accessories For the Medievalist! www.albionworks.net www.albionworks.com
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 9, 2003
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                                >Chas. (who is suddenly somewhat amazed that he's still alive after all these
                                >years…)

                                Think how your mother must feel! ;-)

                                Cheers,
                                Colin


                                Albion Works
                                Furniture and Accessories
                                For the Medievalist!
                                www.albionworks.net
                                www.albionworks.com
                              • rmhowe
                                ... I retired before my mother died but I still have all ten fingers in full working order. I m no Roy Underhill but I do have numerous small scars from
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jun 17, 2003
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                                  Tim Bray wrote:
                                  >>Chas. (who is suddenly somewhat amazed that he's still
                                  >>alive after all these years…)
                                  >
                                  > Think how your mother must feel! ;-)
                                  >
                                  > Cheers,
                                  > Colin

                                  I retired before my mother died but I still have all ten
                                  fingers in full working order. I'm no Roy Underhill but
                                  I do have numerous small scars from knives, chisels,
                                  and various other sharp things including fletching from
                                  arrows. Never severed a controlling nerve. Roy shoots 3
                                  episodes most days, or did when I knew him, but I can
                                  practically guarantee you he's bled by the end of the day.
                                  The 20th year episode chronicles some of this. It's his
                                  defining modus operandi.

                                  Lord knows what Norm's done. I guess you can't sell
                                  measured drawrings well if you're bleeding on camera.
                                  The wife won't let you buy it.

                                  A few of the dumb things that can happen to you if you
                                  make things full time for many years...

                                  Glasses or a safety shield saved my eyes multiple
                                  times, including from a spray of molten type metal
                                  that left 100-150 dots stuck on the lenses, someone's bolt
                                  flying from a grinder, and a bar clamp end that
                                  was attached to a furniture case someone I was talking to
                                  flipped into me without thinking. A faceshield once stopped
                                  a wakisashi blade that bit into a sanding drum. The thing
                                  was brought back from the Philippines totally rusted
                                  and missing the tsuba. It was what I had at the time
                                  for removing rust at home. It hit the top of the face
                                  shield in front of my forehead edge-on. 70's.

                                  Did I mention I will only wear polycarbonate lenses?
                                  Ordinary acrylic lenses are 5 times tougher than
                                  glass. Polycarbonate [Lexan] is 125 times tougher.
                                  They are also a lot lighter. I had some add-on
                                  side covers that clipped onto them.

                                  It's not just the idiotic things we do, it's
                                  what the idiots around us do as well. That bar
                                  clamp could well have taken out my eye. The scratch
                                  on the polycarbonate lens was quite deep. We were
                                  making early American furniture repros at the time.
                                  That was a heavy case.

                                  One day I was welding up a 24 x 24 x 48" polypropylene
                                  tank and I wasn't using power tools at that moment so
                                  I took off the face shield - easier to breathe.
                                  I used to be able to wear hard contacts. I was then.
                                  Anyway, I got a bubble under one of the stick welds
                                  and I heated it and pressed on it with the side of
                                  an x-acto knife to seal it. The knife blade broke
                                  {I didn't think I was pushing that hard) and struck
                                  me directly in the left contact splitting it into
                                  six pieces, some of which flew out of and some of
                                  which went up inside the lid of my eye. At that
                                  particular moment I was standing there in the middle
                                  of thousands of semi-transparent flakes of polypropylene
                                  from routing it [Used a faceshield then.] Timing is
                                  everything. A needle in a stack of needles.

                                  I'm standing there thinking that my contact lens may be
                                  on the floor and whole, and that the knife blade may
                                  just be sticking into my eye. It felt like it.
                                  So I yell, and eventually two goobs come around the wall
                                  from the vacuumforming room.
                                  "Is the knifeblade stuck in my eye?" No.

                                  "Can you find my contact somewhere around me without
                                  breaking it?" Yep. Eventually they found two pieces of it.

                                  We got the rest of it out of my eye. Driving home
                                  one-eyed in rush hour traffic through town was
                                  interesting.

                                  Here's where I really screwed up. I should have seen
                                  an eye doctor immediately for treatment not two days later.
                                  We had no insurance other than workman's comp.

                                  The cornea and eye were slightly scratched. I got a viral
                                  infection that spread to both eyes and took 8 months
                                  to treat, I nearly went blind because of it in -both- eyes
                                  as they connect to each other in a Y behind them.
                                  An injury in one can cost you both. I didn't know that.
                                  I can't wear contacts now because as a result - my
                                  eyes won't produce enough liquid to float them anymore.
                                  The alternative would be to wear contacts and rot the
                                  corneas as that is the one place in the body not
                                  supplied by the bloodstream but fed by the tear solution.
                                  Those proteins are the 'floaters' you sometimes notice.

                                  Oh yeah, I got in the habit of always carrying eye drop
                                  solution. Helped me [and others] with various dusts and
                                  bits in our eyes a lot over the years. Some things will
                                  bounce around the lenses/even faceshield at times.
                                  Like off your nose.

                                  Bits of stuff fly worse than Tinkerbelle at times.

                                  I was in a bookstore one night in the technical area
                                  when this woman started talking about how much her
                                  family loved the Woodwright's Shop. About two weeks
                                  later Roy was filming an episode at the Raleigh NC
                                  State Fairgrounds Fleamarket - in my old friend's
                                  Jesse Stuart's booth about buying old tools. Jesse's
                                  been dead close to fifteen years now. A Colonel who'd
                                  been shot in the heart in Korean combat and survived.

                                  Right before Roy went in front of the camera I mentioned
                                  to him how much this woman really liked him. Of course he
                                  was eating it up - "She said her whole family just
                                  loves you - how you magically flit about the shop and
                                  make all sorts of things - said they call you the 'Wood Fairy'!"
                                  Still beet red on camera two minutes later. ;)

                                  I may see him again here in Raleigh at the July MWTCA meeting.
                                  He filmed it last year - Fools for Tools episode. My wife
                                  managed to misplace the mailed meeting notice and I missed it.
                                  Well, there went my fifteen seconds of immortality.

                                  If this was radio, and it reached forever into outer space
                                  I damn well guarantee you Marvin Martian really would bomb
                                  the place. Email can drive you nuts. Maybe Bugs Bunny would
                                  be effective in Iraq.

                                  Magnus
                                • rmhowe
                                  ... On saws and jointers it s always better to keep as many fingers as possible hooked over the top of the fence. Which is exactly why Biesemeyer and some
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jun 19, 2003
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                                    John LaTorre wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Master Charles ("Three Fingers") wrote:
                                    >>Well. OK, there I was. Wed afternoon. turnin' bowls on my lathe.
                                    >
                                    > <tragic tale snipped>
                                    >
                                    >>THIS NOTE IS BEING PUT UP AS A SAFTY REMINDER.
                                    >
                                    > Well, since this is "true confessions" time, and to make Master Charles
                                    > feel a little better, I went and did something foolish last March. I tried
                                    > to plane a small block of wood (tail block for a hurdy-gurdy) on a jointer
                                    > and the wood caught, kicked back, and took off the last eighth of an inch
                                    > from my right index finger (including the end of the nail). I didn't know
                                    > jointers could kick back.

                                    On saws and jointers it's always better to keep as many fingers as
                                    possible hooked over the top of the fence. Which is exactly why
                                    Biesemeyer and some other wide fences have high faceplates.
                                    Less chance of your hand being dragged in. There might be something
                                    left with a tablesaw, with a jointer you are just ground meat
                                    and they are going to have to remove more or pull a patch off
                                    some other part of your poor pitiful ass to close the wound.

                                    I seem to remember being smacked with the back end of a jointed
                                    piece that was too short once. Caught me in the heel of the
                                    hand. Nothing worse than a slight bruise. Seems like it was
                                    short grain going out the side. I've owned four. I have set
                                    and worked on many up to 14" wide and eight feet long.

                                    Learning -how- to use a jointer is a distinct art.
                                    I don't have time to expound on it now.
                                    A lot of it has to do with hand pressure that is shifted
                                    as you work.

                                    Somewhere I also have an old article on learning to tune
                                    your bandsaw. A lot seriously need it. I have adjusted
                                    and rebuilt a number of them up to 36".

                                    Incidentally, a pack of cards is a great thing to have around
                                    to true your tablesaw fence with to make it straight. Test with a good
                                    level or straight edge, loosen screws, insert cards or paper
                                    and retighten. Test with a square as well. It should be 90
                                    degrees to the table.

                                    A really good book(s) to buy is Delta's 'How to get the most
                                    out of your (Tablesaw, scrollsaw, jointer, bandsaw, lathe etc.).
                                    I have most of them myself. Rosario Capotosto's books for
                                    Shopsmith and other machinery is where you learn the most
                                    tricks. See old write-up below.

                                    Master Magnus, OL [SCA], GDH, Manx, Regia.org

                                    > Come to think of it, the guy who sold me the jointer had nine fingers. I
                                    > wonder if, once these things taste human blood...

                                    This was good advice once, with new people it can't hurt to
                                    give it again, it's been a year or two:

                                    Authors I highly recommend are Rosario J. DeCristoforo's books on
                                    woodworking machinery techniques, Paul Hasluck's books on
                                    -everything- (you may think I'm kidding - I'm not), Holtzapffel's
                                    lathe work and abrasive applications and working odd materials books
                                    (5), most anything by the early Audel Guides (pre-50's)
                                    -in particular- the Audels Carpenters and Builders Guides 1-4 by
                                    Frank Graham, Aldren A. Watson's Country Furniture, Hand tools,
                                    Village Blacksmith, (don't take -some- of the techniques in his
                                    Furniture making Plain and Simple as gospel, he was mostly an
                                    accomplished illustrator similar to Irving Sloane), and -anything-
                                    by Fred T. Hodgson. Alexander Weygers' modern books on blacksmithing
                                    are also useful for beginners (as is Sam Allen's Edge of the Anvil).
                                    The three of them have been recombined into one now. I have the
                                    older editions. Many of these men were simply geniuses of their
                                    times and largely unmatched in ours.

                                    R.J. DeCristoforo showed machinery manufacturers new techniques they'd
                                    never envisioned for their machinery. The man wrote many books and
                                    thousands of articles for technical magazines. Many of his furniture
                                    building/remodelling designs are very dated to their decades though,
                                    so I don't recommend buying those as strongly as I do the Power
                                    Tool Woodworking for Everyone (something written largely for
                                    Shopsmith machine owners but good none the less) and most especially
                                    _DeCristoforo's Complete Book of Power Tools_. Sadly the man passed
                                    away a few years ago. His son writes now, but so far is not as
                                    good as his dad. Maybe he'll improve a lot like Norm Abrams has.
                                    (Norm Abrams has more tools donated to his show than any shop I ever
                                    worked in had, including the university. The shop he works in
                                    belongs to his producer btw. Rosario could school him quite a bit
                                    regardless.)

                                    Don't assume I'm talking strictly carpentry books here, some of
                                    these guys wrote on many trades applications. And the older Delta
                                    Guides books on machinery applications are extremely good.
                                    How to use your Table saw, Scroll saw, Band saw, Jointer, Lathe, etc.
                                    Popular Mechanics and Popular Science used to write multiple annuals
                                    on woodworking, metalworking, and projects like What to Make
                                    for decades that are amazing magazines and books.
                                    These authors cover everything from hand techniques to modern
                                    machinery techniques with tools you'd never imagine. Mass production
                                    put an end to such creativity - things people would do for fun
                                    prior to the television and computers. We had very skilled ancestors
                                    who made what they needed instead of buying it frequently.
                                    For younger folks the Boy Mechanic books (4) were quite something.
                                    Lindsay books sells some of them, so does http://www.leevalley.com/

                                    http://www.lindsaybks.com/
                                    Lindsay Publications, Inc.
                                    P.O.Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915-0538
                                    (fax 815) 935-5447
                                    (815) 935-5353 phone
                                    lindsay@...

                                    For modern books on traditional techniques I would recommend any of
                                    the five books by Roy Underhill in the Woodwright's series - a
                                    term he coined - a wright is a worker in wood - just as a smith
                                    is a worker in metal. Buy a good box of bandages. Roy uses a lot
                                    of them. Had I invested in Johnson & Johnson prior to his shop
                                    work I'd be a rich man.;) He is now Head of Historical Interpretation
                                    at Colonial Williamsburg, was the head carpenter there, and has
                                    filmed 200 episodes of the Woodwright's Shop. 1-800-PlayPBS.
                                    1-800-693-3939 http://www.shop.pbs.org/ search Woodwright’s Shop

                                    Some I have bought in past years before they disappeared:

                                    Special Collection: Weald and Downland Open Air Museum, Sussex
                                    England 1988.
                                    Franconia Farm and Handiwork Musum I + II Iphofen, Bavaria 1988.
                                    Running time: 1:24: 36.
                                    WW001: Roy’s Special Collections: Williamsburg Craftsmen 1991.
                                    Running time 79:38
                                    WW010: Boatbuilding - Running time 1: 27: 13. 1993. Season 20:
                                    2002: Turned Corner Chair; Item Code WOWS9202 $14.95
                                    "Inspired by Bruegel paintings, this easily-stored, lathe-turned,
                                    three-legged chair features a solid seat
                                    style that has held hefty humans since the middle ages, running
                                    time 26: 46.
                                    2000 - 1912: Wayne Barton - Master Chip Carver, Running Time 26:46.
                                    1-1309: The Geddy Foundry of Williamsburg, Running Time 26:46.
                                    WW012: Norway Episodes, Running Time 60 minutes
                                    1312 Lilihamer Open Air Museum
                                    1313 Oslo - Ship Museum + Folk Museum + Stavekirk.
                                    Norwegian Axe Framing and Log Cabins.
                                    1512: Williamsburg Trunk Maker - Saddler’s Shop. 1995.
                                    Running Time 26:46. Mostly leatherwork and stitching.
                                    1805: Debate of the Carpenter’s Tools, 1998. Running Time 26:46.
                                    2008: Marquetry Master Patrick Edwards, Season 20 WOWS9208
                                    "French 18th-century "ebinestes" made furniture decorated
                                    with pictures composed from thin sheets of colored wood.
                                    Trained in Paris, Patrick Edwards shows the tools and
                                    techniques of this lost art." $14.95 Running Time 26:46.
                                    1913: Buckets for Beginners, 1999. Running Time 26:46.
                                    9302: Welsh Chair Bodger Don Weber, Season 21,
                                    "Roy builds a brilliant base for anyone's bottom, using
                                    basic badgering, boiling, bending and boring in the
                                    wonderful Welsh way of working wood." $14.50 4/01/03
                                    9409: Williamsburg Wheelwright, Season 22, "Learn the exacting
                                    trade of the men who make wooden wheels for Williamsburg's wagons."
                                    $14.50 4/01/03
                                    9413: Craftsmen of Old Sturbridge Village, Season 22, Explore the new
                                    woodworking shop at Old Sturbridge Village where the planes get
                                    fancy." $14.50 4/01/03
                                    9209: In the Blacksmith Shop, Season 20, "Join Roy and the
                                    blacksmiths at Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia, and learn how to
                                    forge colonial hardware, tools and implements." $14.50 4/01/03
                                    9211: Carving With the Cabinetmakers, Season 20. Roy visits the
                                    cabinetmakers of the Hay Shop at Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia, as
                                    they show off their skills at decorative
                                    carving in the Colonial American style." $14.50 4/01/03
                                    9312: Flintlock Gunsmith, Season 21. Watch Williamsburg workers wrest a
                                    wonderful watchwork weapon of walnut and wrought steel to wound a
                                    wascally wabbit or worrisome wedcoat. (Taped in Colonial
                                    Williamsburg)" $14.50 4/01/03
                                    I've been to Williamsburg twice and have about 600 pictures of the
                                    various recreated tools, wheelbarrows, wagons, implements excavated.
                                    Same with the 2 Jamestown Parks and the Glass House.

                                    Anything by Drew Langsner, who teaches at his Country Workshops,
                                    here in North Carolina, USA. This would include his Country Woodcraft,
                                    Green Woodworking, Handmade (his first one), and Chair Making books.
                                    These are all hand techniques. He predates Roy on some of them.

                                    While these books are all from the last two centuries they are all
                                    extremely useful books, especially considering most of the folks
                                    on this list are not hacking trees generally to size with axes
                                    and hand mortise chisels nowadays to build their reproductions.
                                    You want to find out how to accomplish your tasks with what is
                                    now available - look to the above authors.
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