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'sawhorse' trestle tables

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  • Jim Hart
    Who has made the sawhorse style trestle tables? What angles and sizes did you find worked best? Did you make 3 or 4 legged trestles? I made a prototype legs
    Message 1 of 16 , May 3 8:40 AM
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      Who has made the 'sawhorse' style trestle tables?

      What angles and sizes did you find worked best?

      Did you make 3 or 4 legged trestles?

      I made a prototype legs from scrap plywood
      ( 3 legged )
      and didn't like the way it came out.

      I'm wanting something I can dress up a bit
      but not too fancy. ( My wife found out that
      only the poor didn't cover up their tables
      with table clothes so I didn't want to get
      too fancy 'cause you won't get to see it anyway....

      thanks in advance !

      Conal
    • Steve Vaught
      I have made the saw horse type of trestles. 3 legged. I used about a ten degree angle on the front leg and no angle on the back leg. I recommend that you use
      Message 2 of 16 , May 3 8:46 AM
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        I have made the saw horse type of trestles. 3 legged.
        I used about a ten degree angle on the front leg and
        no angle on the back leg. I recommend that you use
        the spreaders and supports that are found in many
        illustrations. There are pics with out the spreaders
        and I made mine off those but the tables are not as
        sturdy as I would like. There is also a picture in Le
        Mobilier Francais du Moyen Age a la Renaissance that
        looks like a modern pic nic type table. I have also
        made this on and it is quite sturdy. If I can find
        the book. I will scan the pic and post it.

        Steve
        --- Jim Hart <baronconal@...> wrote:
        > Who has made the 'sawhorse' style trestle tables?
        >
        > What angles and sizes did you find worked best?
        >
        > Did you make 3 or 4 legged trestles?
        >
        > I made a prototype legs from scrap plywood
        > ( 3 legged )
        > and didn't like the way it came out.
        >
        > I'm wanting something I can dress up a bit
        > but not too fancy. ( My wife found out that
        > only the poor didn't cover up their tables
        > with table clothes so I didn't want to get
        > too fancy 'cause you won't get to see it anyway....
        >
        > thanks in advance !
        >
        > Conal
        >
        >

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      • Tim Bray
        ... I have made some, in a knockdown style. ... Mine are tripods. Both the front and back legs are angled, at about 4 degrees. ... I m not completely
        Message 3 of 16 , May 4 11:09 AM
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          >Who has made the 'sawhorse' style trestle tables?

          I have made some, in a knockdown style.

          >What angles and sizes did you find worked best?
          >
          >Did you make 3 or 4 legged trestles?

          Mine are tripods. Both the front and back legs are angled, at about 4 degrees.

          >I made a prototype legs from scrap plywood
          >( 3 legged )
          >and didn't like the way it came out.

          I'm not completely satisfied with mine, either. They look nice and work
          well... up to a point. A couple of customers think they are too
          wobbly. This comes of making them knockdown.

          I don't think most of the medieval versions were made to come apart. Most
          of them look like they have pretty thick legs, permanently joined to the
          horizontal support. This would be a lot sturdier, but almost impossible to
          pack for travel.

          I'm still trying to solve this problem: how to make trestles that are
          sturdy and stable, but can be taken apart and packed flat. Suggestions
          welcome!

          >( My wife found out that
          >only the poor didn't cover up their tables
          >with table clothes

          Yes, which makes documentation of these things extremely difficult. 90% of
          the time, the trestles are hidden by the tablecloth. (Simliar problem with
          beds, btw.) I do have a few details from paintings and illuminations; maybe
          I'll try throwing them onto a Web page so we can all discuss them.

          Cheers,
          Colin


          Albion Works
          Furniture and Accessories
          For the Medievalist!
          www.albionworks.net
          www.albionworks.com
        • Tim Bray
          http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=2-1/qid=1052072142/ref=sr_2_1/602-60 03430-9044606?asin=B000083GKI Or, go to fields.com and search for Item # 511170.
          Message 4 of 16 , May 4 11:17 AM
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            http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=2-1/qid=1052072142/ref=sr_2_1/602-60
            03430-9044606?asin=B000083GKI
            Or, go to fields.com and search for Item # 511170. An authentic-looking
            scherenstuhl for $100.

            Guess I won't be making any of these... can't compete with a price like that!

            Cheers,
            Colin


            Albion Works
            Furniture and Accessories
            For the Medievalist!
            www.albionworks.net
            www.albionworks.com
          • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            ... http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=2-1/qid=1052072142/ref=sr_2_1/602-60 ... WOW... that s cool... Guess I won t make any either... At $100 I might
            Message 5 of 16 , May 4 3:03 PM
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              --- Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
              >
              http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=2-1/qid=1052072142/ref=sr_2_1/602-60
              >
              > 03430-9044606?asin=B000083GKI
              > Or, go to fields.com and search for Item # 511170.
              > An authentic-looking
              > scherenstuhl for $100.
              >
              > Guess I won't be making any of these... can't
              > compete with a price like that!
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Colin
              >


              WOW... that's cool...
              Guess I won't make any either...

              At $100 I might just pick up one
              and spend my time making something
              else....

              Just curious, what were you looking
              for when you found these?





              =====
              Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
              Aude Aliquid Dignum
              ' Dare Something Worthy '

              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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            • Joseph Hayes
              ... I guess that depends on your market. I made one for myself from 1x2 red oak trim and a few hours in the shop. I don t remember the price, but it wasn t
              Message 6 of 16 , May 4 6:23 PM
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                --- Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
                > Guess I won't be making any of these... can't compete with a price
                > like that!

                I guess that depends on your market. I made one for myself from 1x2
                red oak trim and a few hours in the shop. I don't remember the price,
                but it wasn't anywhere near $100.

                Ulrich


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              • Tim Bray
                ... Oh, yes, materials cost would be nowhere near $100. But I m trying to make a living here, so the labor isn t free. I doubt I could make one
                Message 7 of 16 , May 5 9:52 AM
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                  >I guess that depends on your market. I made one for myself from 1x2
                  >red oak trim and a few hours in the shop. I don't remember the price,
                  >but it wasn't anywhere near $100.

                  Oh, yes, materials cost would be nowhere near $100. But I'm trying to make
                  a living here, so the labor isn't free. I doubt I could make one
                  start-to-finish, at the level of finish and detail that I'm happy with,
                  fast enough to sell it for $100 and still make a living wage. (I'm
                  guessing the people who assemble these are making substantially less than
                  USA minimum wage...)

                  Cheers,
                  Colin


                  Albion Works
                  Furniture and Accessories
                  For the Medievalist!
                  www.albionworks.net
                  www.albionworks.com
                • Tim Bray
                  ... My wife found them in a catalog (Marshall Fields) that we received in the mail. I think they have some link with Amazon. Cheers, Colin Albion Works
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 5 9:54 AM
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                    >Just curious, what were you looking
                    >for when you found these?

                    My wife found them in a catalog (Marshall Fields) that we received in the
                    mail. I think they have some link with Amazon.

                    Cheers,
                    Colin


                    Albion Works
                    Furniture and Accessories
                    For the Medievalist!
                    www.albionworks.net
                    www.albionworks.com
                  • rmhowe
                    ... Good point. I hadn t thought of starting one with something that simple. I suppose it s because I was used to getting the lumber out of the rough with
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 5 2:50 PM
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                      Joseph Hayes wrote:
                      >
                      > --- Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
                      > > Guess I won't be making any of these... can't compete with a price
                      > > like that!
                      >
                      > I guess that depends on your market. I made one for myself from 1x2
                      > red oak trim and a few hours in the shop. I don't remember the price,
                      > but it wasn't anywhere near $100.
                      >
                      > Ulrich

                      Good point. I hadn't thought of starting one with something that
                      simple. I suppose it's because I was used to getting the lumber
                      out of the rough with large industrial machines. I suppose
                      the bottoms might be something a bit wider and the tops made
                      from turning squares - with a back slotted in.

                      I showed my wife the web-page and the improvement needed
                      for most folks, particularly us older ones is back support. If
                      she'd wanted one I would have bought it for her. No back? Uh-uh!

                      Thanks for sending the page though Tim, I forwarded it on locally.

                      Magnus
                    • rmhowe
                      ... One of my oldest friends spends half of his time these days taking furniture orders (and NC furniture jobs) to China. Used to go to Argentina. There is no
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 6 4:16 PM
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                        Tim Bray wrote:
                        >
                        > >I guess that depends on your market. I made one for myself from 1x2
                        > >red oak trim and a few hours in the shop. I don't remember the price,
                        > >but it wasn't anywhere near $100.
                        >
                        > Oh, yes, materials cost would be nowhere near $100. But I'm trying to make
                        > a living here, so the labor isn't free. I doubt I could make one
                        > start-to-finish, at the level of finish and detail that I'm happy with,
                        > fast enough to sell it for $100 and still make a living wage. (I'm
                        > guessing the people who assemble these are making substantially less than
                        > USA minimum wage...)
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > Colin

                        One of my oldest friends spends half of his time these days taking
                        furniture orders (and NC furniture jobs) to China. Used to go to
                        Argentina. There is no doubt in my mind that they are probably
                        being made overseas having made furniture for a living as a
                        former shop foreman.

                        Retail is usually double wholesale, which hopefully is double labor cost
                        and materials. Or it was when I did it. Around 1980 one of my 7 hour
                        products usually went for about $400+ retail. We had about thirty six
                        designs I frequently worked up. Some took as long as five days.

                        Having made the jigs to set up that particular stool I could probably
                        do three a day if I had to or possibly more with a thickness sander
                        or more modern self feeding equipment.

                        I was not including finishing in my production estimate for an
                        ordinary shop. A shop I sub-contracted parts for once made oak
                        furniture for ship deck chairs and they simply dipped everything in
                        boiled linseed oil and let it drip over a welded steel sheet tank
                        and cover.

                        If you were to go back in the Medieval Encampments list you
                        would find a post by me on how to do tenons very quickly by
                        hand on a tablesaw. I did hundreds per day once by hand.

                        You could also go the easier route and make the seats out of doweling
                        for the parts other than the seats though. I have seen that done.
                        A Drill Press, some drill & forstner bits, glue, and a bunch of 1x2"s
                        cut to length and tapered where they hit the other leg struts.

                        Of course if you did use dowels for the seat too you would get that
                        lovely grill embossed look. I wonder what it does for cellulite?
                        I mean if you can see panty lines - what's that got to look like? ;)

                        The hard part is all the tenons and -mortises- which modern
                        computer assisted machinery makes somewhat simple. At that point you
                        only need machine operators and sanders/finishers which is where most
                        labor is these days with one or two skilled machine set-up men in
                        the U.S.A. at least. Finishing can be done, and is, on roller
                        platform lines with up to thirty separate people doing specialised parts
                        of it. If you are not doing high-end custom work you cannot compete
                        with factory work. Chinese mainland labor is 1/8th of Taiwan's.

                        Some of their products though are quite nice. For example I bought
                        a fine hardwood (mahogany or something very similar) trestle table
                        and matching trestle seats for about $450 two years ago at a
                        World Market when they were on sale. I don't think I could buy
                        the materials for much less than that here. No particle board anywhere
                        and virtually flawless. Fingerjointed but very hard to see under
                        the uniform finish. Not one knot in it. I think it came from Malaysia.

                        The only happy converse of all this may be that some hardwoods may
                        decrease or stabilize in cost as the demand lessens, although a whole
                        lot of our hardwoods are shipped overseas now.

                        For those who may never have heard of such things there are actual
                        factory ships at sea for long times producing plywood which is then
                        sent back to our markets made out of our trees.
                        These are similar to the whaling ships/fishing ship canneries
                        where everything is done off shore. Usually Japanese, but I
                        imagine they have competition now. My source for this was Woodshop
                        News I think a few years back.

                        This is one reason why veneer is so thin on much of the hardwood
                        plywood you see these days. It used to be about 1/40" thick but
                        is thinning. I've seen some you could see the under-layers or glue
                        through. You really have to be picky and do minimal sanding on this
                        stuff. Some of it I have used had the lovedly scent of dog doo when
                        you cut it too. I don't know what that is exactly they used. I hated
                        it on the rare stuff we bought I encountered it on.

                        If you rub three spread fingers over a sheet you can usually detect
                        voids by ear or feel. Before you buy the clunker. I've sent whole
                        shipments, or a good percentage of them right back to the suppliers.
                        Reputation is everything. Especially when your average job runs into
                        thousands of dollars.

                        Incidentally, before you get caught in this one - most plywood
                        suppliers guarantee squareness on only three corners. Mathematically
                        it doesn't make sense, but sheets being out of square quite a lot
                        are quite common. If you are doing cabinetry and you let one of
                        these things into your cabinet in a central location - you're screwed
                        trying to fix it after the fact. Use a square and compare measurements
                        to oblique corners. I think you will be very surprised.

                        Oversize sheets are not unknown either. This is a good reason to have
                        a table saw that will cut half way through lengthwise [48"+].
                        It's generally best to have your pieces cut between a fence and
                        blade whenever possible. The most accurate tablesaws to have are
                        -outside- or left tilting blades, if you are right handed. The
                        reason is with a blade that tilts - towards the fence - any rise
                        in the material while it is being cut is deducted from your piece.
                        With a left tilt blade you can always press a bit harder down to
                        make it lie flat with the table and true up the edge with a follow
                        up cut.

                        It also helps to have a good straight edge you can rout a square
                        corner to begin with if you find yourself very much out of square.
                        For myself I have long had two aluminum extrusions of about 4 and
                        10 feet, and I have a set of tile setter's straight edges as well
                        I can clamp on and rout to. There is a company called Joint-a-bility
                        that sells these jigs as an alternative to jointing huge boards.
                        It simply is a legged jig that clamps a straight edge down on top
                        of your board and you use a router to run a straight edge or an
                        angled one if you have the bits. Woodshop News generally sells them.

                        Magnus
                      • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                        If you were to go back in the Medieval Encampments list you would find a post by me on how to do tenons very quickly by hand on a tablesaw. I did hundreds per
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 7 1:47 PM
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                          If you were to go back in the Medieval Encampments
                          list you would find a post by me on how to do tenons
                          very quickly by hand on a tablesaw. I did hundreds per
                          day once by hand.

                          two questions...

                          Medieval Encapments list? Where? How?

                          and ( just in case I't something I haven't
                          thought of ) how do 'you' do tenons on the
                          table saw.

                          I've done it a couple of differnt ways,
                          I'm curious how you do it....



                          =====
                          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                          Aude Aliquid Dignum
                          ' Dare Something Worthy '

                          __________________________________
                          Do you Yahoo!?
                          The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                          http://search.yahoo.com
                        • Scott Lane
                          ... I was sure you were on it! It s only one of the best lists around! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MedievalEncampments/ In Service, Lord Aodhfin Seibert
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 7 8:02 PM
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                            >Medieval Encapments list? Where? How?
                            >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                            > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                            > ' Dare Something Worthy '

                            I was sure you were on it! It's only one of the best lists around!

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MedievalEncampments/

                            In Service,
                            Lord Aodhfin Seibert
                          • Adam MacDonald
                            Good evening, folks! That would be the Medieval Encampments Yahoo group - founded by Dame Mira Silverlock (of Medieval Pavilion Resources fame) and now run by
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 7 10:59 PM
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                              Good evening, folks!

                              That would be the Medieval Encampments Yahoo group - founded by Dame Mira
                              Silverlock (of Medieval Pavilion Resources fame) and now run by me - Sasha
                              (Mykola Shlahetka). Here's some pertinent info for the group:

                              Post message: MedievalEncampments@yahoogroups.com

                              Shortcut URL to this page:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MedievalEncampments/

                              We're nearly 900 souls (and growing daily) - some of the worthies on *this*
                              list also play over at mine (hi Magnus, hi Colin!). The focus is on
                              improving the camp aesthetic (whatever that means for you) furniture,
                              pavilions, packing strategies, weatherproofing, et cetera....

                              Stop on by!

                              Sasha
                              Owner - Crescent Horde Tent Company - specializing in non-Mongol yurtas

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...>
                              To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 1:47 PM
                              Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] X-chairs Cheap!!


                              > If you were to go back in the Medieval Encampments
                              > list you would find a post by me on how to do tenons
                              > very quickly by hand on a tablesaw. I did hundreds per
                              > day once by hand.
                              >
                              > two questions...
                              >
                              > Medieval Encapments list? Where? How?
                              >
                              > and ( just in case I't something I haven't
                              > thought of ) how do 'you' do tenons on the
                              > table saw.
                              >
                              > I've done it a couple of differnt ways,
                              > I'm curious how you do it....
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > =====
                              > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                              > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                              > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                              >
                              > __________________________________
                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                              > http://search.yahoo.com
                              >
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • stefan_of_kiel
                              Hello Colin, I want to start by saying your web page has fantastic wood furniture. I ve made a few knockdown trestle tables using slots and datos but they get
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 12 12:28 PM
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                                Hello Colin,

                                I want to start by saying your web page has fantastic wood furniture.

                                I've made a few knockdown trestle tables using slots and datos but
                                they get loose quickly and wobble. I believe you have a picture on
                                your webpage of a trestle where the cross piece is aligned up and
                                down and your pin passes through side to side. Last night I was
                                working on this wobble problem and cut a mortise for the pin to go
                                top to bottom. The way it holds over a larger area of the leg and
                                seems sturdier than the cross pin. The other thing I did was cut the
                                pin's mortise at an angel to match the pins angle. This gave a
                                larger area of contact inside the mortise and the leg stopped
                                wobbling. The material I'm using is 7/8" maple. The cross piece is
                                5" wide and the tenon is 3" wide x 4" long. I didn't cut a shoulder
                                for the tenon because I felt the material is too thin. Once the
                                mortise was cut in the leg, I then cut a 1/4" mortise in the tenon
                                from top to bottom. Having the mortise go straight through and using
                                an wedge shaped pin meant that only one small spot of the pin was
                                contacting the instide of the mortise. I then took out more material
                                to make the mortise angled and I recut my pin to match the angle and
                                keep it short enough to stay below the tabletop when in place. Now I
                                have a lot of contact in the mortise which puts pressure on the top
                                and bottom of the tennon. This removed most of the wobble. There is
                                still a little side to side wiggle, but I will probably glue small
                                blocks jsut below the base of the tenon to act as shoulders and that
                                should reduce that movement.

                                I'll try to post some pics on my webpage this evening.
                                http://www.dwarvenaxe.com The link will be in the Woodworks
                                section. Assuming this test works successfully, I'll be fixing or
                                replacing my existing trestles to this design.

                                If someone else tries this or sees an obvious issue this this design,
                                please let me know.

                                Stefan



                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Tim Bray <tbray@m...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >Who has made the 'sawhorse' style trestle tables?
                                >
                                > I have made some, in a knockdown style.
                                >
                                > >What angles and sizes did you find worked best?
                                > >
                                > >Did you make 3 or 4 legged trestles?
                                >
                                > Mine are tripods. Both the front and back legs are angled, at
                                about 4 degrees.
                                >
                                > >I made a prototype legs from scrap plywood
                                > >( 3 legged )
                                > >and didn't like the way it came out.
                                >
                                > I'm not completely satisfied with mine, either. They look nice and
                                work
                                > well... up to a point. A couple of customers think they are too
                                > wobbly. This comes of making them knockdown.
                                >
                                > I don't think most of the medieval versions were made to come
                                apart. Most
                                > of them look like they have pretty thick legs, permanently joined
                                to the
                                > horizontal support. This would be a lot sturdier, but almost
                                impossible to
                                > pack for travel.
                                >
                                > I'm still trying to solve this problem: how to make trestles that
                                are
                                > sturdy and stable, but can be taken apart and packed flat.
                                Suggestions
                                > welcome!
                                >
                                > >( My wife found out that
                                > >only the poor didn't cover up their tables
                                > >with table clothes
                                >
                                > Yes, which makes documentation of these things extremely
                                difficult. 90% of
                                > the time, the trestles are hidden by the tablecloth. (Simliar
                                problem with
                                > beds, btw.) I do have a few details from paintings and
                                illuminations; maybe
                                > I'll try throwing them onto a Web page so we can all discuss them.
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                > Colin
                                >
                                >
                                > Albion Works
                                > Furniture and Accessories
                                > For the Medievalist!
                                > www.albionworks.net
                                > www.albionworks.com
                              • Tim Bray
                                Stefan, ... Thanks! Compliments are always nice, and those from other woodworkers are especially treasured. ... Yes. ... That s the way my tripod trestles
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 13 1:09 PM
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                                  Stefan,

                                  >I want to start by saying your web page has fantastic wood furniture.

                                  Thanks! Compliments are always nice, and those from other woodworkers are
                                  especially treasured.

                                  >I've made a few knockdown trestle tables using slots and datos but
                                  >they get loose quickly and wobble.

                                  Yes.

                                  > I believe you have a picture on
                                  >your webpage of a trestle where the cross piece is aligned up and
                                  >down and your pin passes through side to side.

                                  That's the way my tripod trestles were made.

                                  > Last night I was
                                  >working on this wobble problem and cut a mortise for the pin to go
                                  >top to bottom. The way it holds over a larger area of the leg and
                                  >seems sturdier than the cross pin. The other thing I did was cut the
                                  >pin's mortise at an angel to match the pins angle. This gave a
                                  >larger area of contact inside the mortise and the leg stopped
                                  >wobbling.

                                  Yes, that's the way I make the bed rail-to-post joint. See the "beds" page
                                  for a photo.

                                  >The material I'm using is 7/8" maple. The cross piece is
                                  >5" wide and the tenon is 3" wide x 4" long.

                                  This is actually very close to the dimensions of the bed-rail joint! The
                                  rails are about 7/8 thick, a little over 5" wide, the tenons are 3" wide,
                                  and the posts are made from 8/4 stock so they are about 1-3/4" thick.

                                  >I didn't cut a shoulder
                                  >for the tenon because I felt the material is too thin.

                                  (I think you mean you didn't cut _cheeks_; there are 1" shoulders on either
                                  side of the tenon, right?) And it turns out to be unnecessary, I
                                  think. With 7/8 wide stock the shoulders are sufficient, especially with
                                  the power of that long wedge.

                                  Basically what you describe is a very traditional way of making 'trestle
                                  tables.' I've made them that way myself and it is definitely the best. I
                                  think the vertically-wedged tenon is the strongest and best knockdown joint
                                  there is.

                                  However... the question is how to use that joint on the 'sawhorse' trestles
                                  that we were originally discussing. (Apparently there is a terminology
                                  problem; what we call a 'trestle table' does not use 'sawhorse trestles.' )

                                  The problem I'm having with my tripod trestles isn't vertical wobbling,
                                  it's side-to-side wobbling. Using a vertical wedge instead of a horizontal
                                  pin might improve that a little; but I suspect a big part of my problem is
                                  that the front pieces are only 1/2" thick, which means there isn't much
                                  bearing surface between the tenon and the mortise. I'd like to rotate the
                                  top stretcher, so it is flat/horizontal (which is the way the medieval ones
                                  seem to have been done), but then there's no room for knockdown
                                  joinery. (Maybe I need to post a photo showing the detail of this joint?)

                                  What I think I need to do is make the front as an A-shape (two legs with a
                                  horizontal stretcher) out of 6/4 stock so there is more depth to the
                                  mortise, and maybe use 6/4 for the top stretcher as well so I can put wider
                                  shoulders on the tenon. But all this drives the cost way up, and the
                                  weight, too. I don't think I'd sell many of them.

                                  Thanks for discussing this. Any more ideas?

                                  Cheers,
                                  Colin
                                  Albion Works
                                  Furniture and Accessories
                                  For the Medievalist!
                                  www.albionworks.net
                                  www.albionworks.com
                                • Stefan von Kiel
                                  Hello Colin, More thoughts on period style trestle tables... ... I agree. ... I ve been calling the sawhorse trestle a period tressle and the commonly seen
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 14 11:08 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hello Colin,

                                    More thoughts on period style trestle tables...

                                    >Basically what you describe is a very traditional way of making 'trestle
                                    >tables.' I've made them that way myself and it is definitely the best. I
                                    >think the vertically-wedged tenon is the strongest and best knockdown joint
                                    >there is.

                                    I agree.

                                    >However... the question is how to use that joint on the 'sawhorse' trestles
                                    >that we were originally discussing. (Apparently there is a terminology
                                    >problem; what we call a 'trestle table' does not use 'sawhorse trestles.' )

                                    I've been calling the "sawhorse trestle" a period tressle and the commonly
                                    seen
                                    trestle a standard trestle. I made a standard trestle out of 4/4 hickory
                                    and use it
                                    as a work table. It is heavy and very sturdy. If there is a better name
                                    for the two
                                    types of trestle tables, I'd like to know so I can call it by it's proper
                                    name.

                                    >The problem I'm having with my tripod trestles isn't vertical wobbling,
                                    >it's side-to-side wobbling. Using a vertical wedge instead of a horizontal
                                    >pin might improve that a little; but I suspect a big part of my problem is
                                    >that the front pieces are only 1/2" thick, which means there isn't much
                                    >bearing surface between the tenon and the mortise. I'd like to rotate the
                                    >top stretcher, so it is flat/horizontal (which is the way the medieval ones
                                    >seem to have been done), but then there's no room for knockdown joinery.
                                    >(Maybe I need to post a photo showing the detail of this joint?)

                                    I've seen drawings and illuminations with the horizontal stretcher but
                                    couldn't
                                    see a way to make it break down and be sturdy. Maybe if the legs had a
                                    tenon
                                    and went into a mortise in the horizontal stretcher, but no way to secure it
                                    with a pin.

                                    >What I think I need to do is make the front as an A-shape (two legs with a
                                    >horizontal stretcher) out of 6/4 stock so there is more depth to the
                                    >mortise, and maybe use 6/4 for the top stretcher as well so I can put wider
                                    >shoulders on the tenon. But all this drives the cost way up, and the
                                    >weight, too. I don't think I'd sell many of them.

                                    For the front leg, I have tried using a triangle with the legs going up the
                                    sides
                                    and meeting at the top. I wasn't using a mortis/tenon joint but it would
                                    have
                                    worked well. Now I'm cutting a 15 degree angle on both parts of the leg for
                                    a 30 degree spread. I don't make the top a point. I cut it back so the top
                                    is
                                    flat and about 2 " wide. I've used 30 degrees a few times and it seems
                                    sturdy
                                    enough.



                                    Stefan von Kiel
                                    Dwarven Axe Armoury
                                    www.dwarvenaxe.com





                                    ----Original Message Follows----
                                    From: Tim Bray <tbray@...>
                                    Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Re: 'sawhorse' trestle tables
                                    Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:09:53 -0700

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