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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Copyright Question

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  • James Winkler
    ... as everybody has stated that they aren t lawyers... ergo, none of this constitutes legal advise or council , let s call this exchange what it is... a
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 2, 2006
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      Winking smiley emoticon  ... as everybody has stated that they aren't lawyers... ergo, none of this  constitutes 'legal advise or council', let's call this exchange what it is...  a fundamentally emotional outflow of frustration over the mess that the 'New Millennium Copyright Law' put us in...
       
      If we're going to site "friends in the profession" let's give name and contact for validation... otherwise its just a 'friend of a friend of somebody I met in a bar one day"... 
       
      As to whether to publish or not... that is up to the poster and the list owner...  they're the one's who ultimately must answer the question...
       
      Chas.
    • Mark Schuldenfrei
      ... Digital Millennium Copyright Act. :-) We say that we are not lawyers, before we opine on law, for two reasons. One is that practicing law without a
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 2, 2006
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        > Winking smiley emoticon ... as everybody has stated that they aren't
        > lawyers... ergo, none of this constitutes 'legal advise or council',
        > let's call this exchange what it is... a fundamentally emotional
        > outflow of frustration over the mess that the 'New Millennium Copyright
        > Law' put us in...

        Digital Millennium Copyright Act. :-)

        We say that we are not lawyers, before we opine on law, for two
        reasons. One is that practicing law without a license is illegal,
        so it is important to clarify that you are not doing so. The other
        is because I don't want people to give my words more (or less)
        weight than they are due.

        What it doesn't mean is that people are stupid or ignorant. :-)

        > If we're going to site "friends in the profession" let's give name and
        > contact for validation... otherwise its just a 'friend of a friend of
        > somebody I met in a bar one day"...

        Sigh. He did not render this opinion as a legal opinion, and it
        wasn't in a context of professional privilege. I happen to believe
        him, and he's very good. So, take this as "very knowledgeable person
        speaking off the cuff.

        Harold Feld, whose professional expertise can be found here.
        http://www.mediaaccess.org/about/people/index.html

        Please do not hold it against him that he is also Yaakov ha
        Mizrachi, and one of the best damned Poeta Atlantia's I have
        met... Or any sort of SCA poet.

        This was not a sock monkey, my friend. :-)

        Tibor
      • Don Eisele
        ... http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-b.html Educational purposes means: * non-commercial instruction or curriculumbased
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 2, 2006
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          >> I think you are trying to use the educational/research clause to justify
          >> posting. I have two thoughts:
          >> 1. This forum is not an educational institution
          >
          >It isn't? Oh, drat, I wanted to learn something.
          >
          >> 2. What "research" goal is obtained by distributing it out to everyone on
          >> the list.
          >
          >Teaching more about how to do medieval woodworking, I guess.
          >Unless that is educational. :-)

          http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-b.html

          "Educational purposes" means:
          * non-commercial instruction or curriculumbased teaching by educators to students at nonprofit educational institutions
          * planned non-commercial study or investigation directed toward making a contribution to a field of knowledge, or
          * presentation of research findings at non-commercial peer conferences, workshops or seminars.



          --
          Don Quixote -- quixote@... http://toysmakeuspowerful.com
          "I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself"
        • Mark Schuldenfrei
          ... I think you misunderstood what you are referencing. That very useful source (which I have read and seen before) has a Chapter on a particular industry
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 2, 2006
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            > http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-b.html

            I think you misunderstood what you are referencing. That very useful
            source (which I have read and seen before) has a Chapter on a particular
            industry agreement that applies to institutions of higher learning.

            That chapter, which you cite, defines who it applies to and how to
            define an institution of higher learning, and what subsets of fair
            use the industry has generally agreed are completely free and clear.

            Or, as it says elsewhere:
            Since the current copyright law was adopted, various organizations and
            scholars have established guidelines for educational uses. These
            guidelines are not part of the Copyright Act. However, the guidelines
            establish the standards for uses and copying in education. These
            guidelines, as well as other regulations and rules regarding
            educational uses are summarized in Chapter 7, which deals with
            academic and educational permissions.

            But it is a subset of such rights, not an exclusive list of all
            available rights. For that, there is a different chapter of that
            book, Chapter 9, found here:
            http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/index.html

            I think you misunderstood the point of that publication.

            (For the student - was your quotation of that web site a violation
            of fair use? Is mine?)

            Tibor
          • Michael Houghton
            Howdy! ... That s incomplete. The proposed action would be the republication of the entire article in a manner that is not clearly limited to nonprofit
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 2, 2006
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              Howdy!

              On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:00:40AM -0500, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:
              > > > What weight would the "Fair Use Exception" have in
              > > > your analysis?
              > > > Tibor
              >
              > > None. I think 'Fair Use' would be the 'copy for your
              > > own personal use' example.
              >
              > I am not an attorney, and have no specific expertise. But my
              > plain reading of the law says to me that you are mistaken:
              >
              > ===================
              > § 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use
              >
              > Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of
              > a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or
              > phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for
              > purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including
              > multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an
              > infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work
              > in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall
              > include —
              >
              > (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is
              > of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
              >
              > (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
              >
              > (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the
              > copyrighted work as a whole; and
              >
              > (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the
              > copyrighted work.
              >
              > The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of
              > fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above
              > factors.
              > ===================
              >
              > In this case the purpose is non-commercial, is research only, is just
              > one article from a magazine, and doesn't have a substantial impact
              > upon the market value of the magazine.

              That's incomplete.

              The proposed action would be the republication of the entire article in
              a manner that is not clearly limited to nonprofit educational purposes
              as, say, distributing a limited number of copies to students in a class.
              Further, that republication could be seen as gutting the potential
              market for reprints of that article.

              I think that makes a strong argument that the proposed action does not
              fall under "fair use".
              >
              > Whether the commercial nature of Yahoo and advertising affects this,
              > I cannot say.
              >
              > I'd put it up.

              I wouldn't.

              yours,
              Herveus

              --
              Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
              herveus@... | White Wolf and the Phoenix narrowwares
              Bowie, MD, USA | http://whitewolfandphoenix.com
              Proud member of the SCA Internet Whitewash Squad
            • Eric
              I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV... I would argue that this board could be construed as a non-commercial peer conference, workshop or seminar. But
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 2, 2006
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                I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV...

                I would argue that this board could be construed as a "non-commercial
                peer conference, workshop or seminar.

                But to be on the safe side, an intro should be written to frame the
                article into our area of interest with perhaps a referrence to an
                extant example and then insert the specific parts of the article that
                would be important to us. With ample credit given to the article's
                source, I would not think that there would be a problem.

                If anyone with rights to the work disagreed, the posting could be
                removed.

                Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
                Ulfsvikings, Barony of Angels, Caid

                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Don Eisele <quixote@...> wrote:
                >
                > >> I think you are trying to use the educational/research clause to
                justify
                > >> posting. I have two thoughts:
                > >> 1. This forum is not an educational institution
                > >
                > >It isn't? Oh, drat, I wanted to learn something....
                > >
                http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-
                b.html
                >
                > "Educational purposes" means:...
                > * presentation of research findings at non-commercial peer
                conferences, workshops or seminars.
                >
              • Mark Schuldenfrei
                ... Tay.... ... It is nonprofit in the sense that no one here is charging. Are reprints available? Tibor PS Secret Cryptic Message - Liverpole Says Hi
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 2, 2006
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                  > That's incomplete.

                  'Tay....


                  > The proposed action would be the republication of the entire article in
                  > a manner that is not clearly limited to nonprofit educational purposes
                  > as, say, distributing a limited number of copies to students in a class.
                  > Further, that republication could be seen as gutting the potential
                  > market for reprints of that article.

                  It is nonprofit in the sense that no one here is charging.

                  Are reprints available?

                  Tibor

                  PS Secret Cryptic Message - "Liverpole Says Hi"
                • Michael Houghton
                  Howdy! ... The fact that the infringer is not profiting from the infringement does not make it not infringement . ... I don t know. The question is
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 2, 2006
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                    Howdy!

                    On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 01:19:27PM -0500, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:
                    > > That's incomplete.
                    >
                    > 'Tay....
                    >
                    >
                    > > The proposed action would be the republication of the entire article in
                    > > a manner that is not clearly limited to nonprofit educational purposes
                    > > as, say, distributing a limited number of copies to students in a class.
                    > > Further, that republication could be seen as gutting the potential
                    > > market for reprints of that article.
                    >
                    > It is nonprofit in the sense that no one here is charging.

                    The fact that the "infringer" is not profiting from the infringement
                    does not make it "not infringement".
                    >
                    > Are reprints available?
                    >
                    I don't know. The question is orthogonal to the fair use question.
                    >
                    > PS Secret Cryptic Message - "Liverpole Says Hi"
                    >
                    ahhh...

                    yours,
                    Herveus
                    --
                    Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
                    herveus@... | White Wolf and the Phoenix narrowwares
                    Bowie, MD, USA | http://whitewolfandphoenix.com
                    Proud member of the SCA Internet Whitewash Squad
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