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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Coopered Top

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  • Don Eisele
    ... Copyright law is somewhat subjective. Making money off of it is certainly one of the factors used in general, and the one most likely to cause a lawsuit,
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 28, 2006
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      >
      >but as to copyright infringment.....????
      >
      >I would think that as long as we do not profit
      >from the electronic 'reprint' it should be ok
      >so long as we give credit as to where it came from
      >
      >
      >Anyone out there know if I'm wrong?

      Copyright law is somewhat subjective. Making money off of it is certainly
      one of the factors used in general, and the one most likely to cause
      a lawsuit, but there are other factors as well.

      I think for articles in magazines, posting an entire article is probably
      not legal unless you are an educational institution (or a public library).

      Taking an article, duplicating a portion of it, and adding your own material
      to it to create a "transformative" work, would usually be ok under the
      "fair use" laws.

      Since libraries tend to have more leeway, one thing you can do is post
      detailed information on the article, and each individual can go out to
      their local library and request the article through inter-library loan.
      ILL is very, very, cool, and many libraries these days are on-line, and
      you can put the request through and only show up physically at the
      library to pick up what you ordered.

      This way there is no question about copyright issues.

      Generally what you might want to post would be (this is from my libraries
      electronic request page):
      Journal Title
      Volume number
      Issue Number
      Month/Season
      Year
      Pages of the article
      ISSN (Int'l. Standard Serial No.)
      Article Author
      Article Title


      For more info:
      http://fairuse.stanford.edu/
      Most specifically:
      http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-b.html



      Here's a blurb at the bottom of my libraries ILL request page for articles:

      WARNING CONCERNING COPYRIGHT RESTRICTIONS

      The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted materials.

      Under certain conditions specified in the law, libraries and archives are authorized to furnish a photocopy or other reproduction. One of these specified conditions is that the photocopy or reproduction is not to be "used for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research". If a user makes a request for, or later uses, a photocopy or reproduction for purposes in excess of "fair use", that user may be liable for copyright infringement.

      This institution reserves the right to refuse to accept a copying order if, in its judgment, fulfillment of the order would involve violation of copyright law.


      (So the conclusion you can draw is that libraries can copyright most articles for people for private study, which would probably be legitimate for most things that would fall on this list)

      --
      Don Quixote -- quixote@... http://toysmakeuspowerful.com
      "I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself"
      WebSune Card search engine: http://toysmakeuspowerful.com/search
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      my l5r trades: http://trade.mahasamatman.com/L5R/list_show.pl?user=eiseled
      AEG BH#1489
    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      ... Ok..... I m the list owner so I m probably the one to make the call.... Go ahead and post it, but don t let anyone give you any money ;) Baron Conal
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 1 3:53 AM
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        > (So the conclusion you can draw is that libraries
        > can copyright most articles for people for private
        > study, which would probably be legitimate for most
        > things that would fall on this list)
        >


        Ok..... I'm the list owner so I'm probably the one
        to make the call....

        Go ahead and post it, but don't let anyone give you
        any money ;)



        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

        Aude Aliquid Dignum
        ' Dare Something Worthy '

        __________________________________________________
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        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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      • Flemish Lady
        IIRC, if you copy the Whole Article and make it available on the web, you will be infringing on American Woodworker Magazine s copyright. And possibly subject
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 2 7:39 AM
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          IIRC, if you copy the Whole Article and make it
          available on the web, you will be infringing on
          American Woodworker Magazine's copyright. And
          possibly subject to fines and whatever else the law
          says.

          If you copy it from a library copy (or a friend's
          copy) *for your own use*, you should be fine. But
          copying it and making it available to the world on the
          Internet is just like publishing it. Whether for
          profit or not.

          Now if you get permission from the magazine to
          distribute the article in this way, then you should be
          fine. But there would probably be some fees involved
          and such.

          As for me, I wouldn't do it.

          Marthe Elsbeth
          Not a Lawyer, but played a Legal Librarian once.

          --- Barbara Dodge <awench1@...> wrote:

          > I believe you are right for the copyright issue, but
          > if someone can confirm that, it would be great.
          >
          > As far as making it a PDF, I dunno. I'll have to
          > talk to my computer gurus at work. All I can do is
          > try.
          >
          > Barb
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:08 PM
          > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [MedievalSawdust]
          > Coopered Top
          >
          >
          > --- Barbara Dodge <awench1@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I have found the article I recently read on
          > > coopering. The article is actually about
          > coopering
          > > a door for a cabinet. The way I see it is a
          > cabinet
          > > is but a chest set on end.
          > >
          > > The article is in American Woodworker Magazine
          > > (August 1998). So, here is a question for the
          > > masses. If I scan the article and send it to
          > the
          > > list, would this be a case of copyright
          > > infringement? If it is permitted, should I send
          > it
          > > as an attachment? Thoughts, suggestions?
          > >
          >
          > I've got an article also....
          >
          > If you scan them, can you make the, PDF's?
          > and place them into the files section of the
          > email group page....
          >
          > but as to copyright infringment.....????
          >
          > I would think that as long as we do not profit
          > from the electronic 'reprint' it should be ok
          > so long as we give credit as to where it came from
          >
          > Anyone out there know if I'm wrong?
          >
          > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
          >
          > Aude Aliquid Dignum
          > ' Dare Something Worthy '


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • Mark Schuldenfrei
          ... What weight would the Fair Use Exception have in your analysis? Tibor
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 2 7:46 AM
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            > IIRC, if you copy the Whole Article and make it
            > available on the web, you will be infringing on
            > American Woodworker Magazine's copyright. And
            > possibly subject to fines and whatever else the law
            > says.

            What weight would the "Fair Use Exception" have in your
            analysis?

            Tibor
          • Flemish Lady
            ... None. I think Fair Use would be the copy for your own personal use example. IMHO, Marthe Elsbeth __________________________________________________ Do
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 2 7:51 AM
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              --- Mark Schuldenfrei <mark@...> wrote:

              > > IIRC, if you copy the Whole Article and make it
              > > available on the web, you will be infringing on
              > > American Woodworker Magazine's copyright. And
              > > possibly subject to fines and whatever else the
              > law
              > > says.
              >
              > What weight would the "Fair Use Exception" have in
              > your analysis?
              >
              > Tibor

              None. I think 'Fair Use' would be the 'copy for your
              own personal use' example.

              IMHO,
              Marthe Elsbeth


              __________________________________________________
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            • Mark Schuldenfrei
              ... I am not an attorney, and have no specific expertise. But my plain reading of the law says to me that you are mistaken: =================== § 107.
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 2 8:00 AM
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                > > What weight would the "Fair Use Exception" have in
                > > your analysis?
                > > Tibor

                > None. I think 'Fair Use' would be the 'copy for your
                > own personal use' example.

                I am not an attorney, and have no specific expertise. But my
                plain reading of the law says to me that you are mistaken:

                ===================
                § 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

                Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of
                a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or
                phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for
                purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including
                multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an
                infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work
                in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall
                include —

                (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is
                of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

                (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

                (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the
                copyrighted work as a whole; and

                (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the
                copyrighted work.

                The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of
                fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above
                factors.
                ===================

                In this case the purpose is non-commercial, is research only, is just
                one article from a magazine, and doesn't have a substantial impact
                upon the market value of the magazine.

                Whether the commercial nature of Yahoo and advertising affects this,
                I cannot say.

                I'd put it up.

                Tibor
              • Mark Schuldenfrei
                To our Moderators, and others. For questions on copyright (since in the end, you ll be making your own decision) the US web site I start with is often
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 2 8:06 AM
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                  To our Moderators, and others.

                  For questions on copyright (since in the end, you'll be making your
                  own decision) the US web site I start with is often
                  http://www.copyright.gov

                  Tibor
                • Ld. Robin Gallowglass
                  ... I have to disagree with you Tibor. There s actually, as I understand it, two interlocking copyrights that have to be addresses. Each article typically
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 2 8:40 AM
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                    On Thursday 02 March 2006 11:00, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:
                    > > > What weight would the "Fair Use Exception" have in
                    > > > your analysis?
                    > > > Tibor
                    > >
                    > > None. I think 'Fair Use' would be the 'copy for your
                    > > own personal use' example.
                    >
                    > I am not an attorney, and have no specific expertise. But my
                    > plain reading of the law says to me that you are mistaken:

                    > In this case the purpose is non-commercial, is research only, is just
                    > one article from a magazine, and doesn't have a substantial impact
                    > upon the market value of the magazine.

                    I have to disagree with you Tibor. There's actually, as I understand it, two
                    interlocking copyrights that have to be addresses. Each article typically
                    has it's own copyright and the author has given the magazine exclusive or
                    non-exclusive publication rights. The second is the copyright of the
                    magazine as a compilation. Reprinting the whole article on this or any
                    mailing list, in my opinion, would _NOT_ be fair use of the copyrighted
                    article.

                    >
                    > Whether the commercial nature of Yahoo and advertising affects this,
                    > I cannot say.
                    >
                    > I'd put it up.
                    >
                    > Tibor

                    Robin
                  • Mark Schuldenfrei
                    ... But, the same reasoning applies to both copyrights, in parallel. Tibor
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 2 8:47 AM
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                      > I have to disagree with you Tibor. There's actually, as I understand it, two
                      > interlocking copyrights that have to be addresses. Each article typically
                      > has it's own copyright and the author has given the magazine exclusive or
                      > non-exclusive publication rights.

                      But, the same reasoning applies to both copyrights, in parallel.

                      Tibor
                    • Ld. Robin Gallowglass
                      ... But the copyright on the article is the more specific copyright and takes precedent, as I understand it. Copyright is tricky and slippery, and not even
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 2 8:55 AM
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                        On Thursday 02 March 2006 11:47, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:
                        > > I have to disagree with you Tibor. There's actually, as I understand it,
                        > > two interlocking copyrights that have to be addresses. Each article
                        > > typically has it's own copyright and the author has given the magazine
                        > > exclusive or non-exclusive publication rights.
                        >
                        > But, the same reasoning applies to both copyrights, in parallel.

                        But the copyright on the article is the more specific copyright and takes
                        precedent, as I understand it.

                        Copyright is tricky and slippery, and not even copyright lawyers can agree on
                        some things. My advice is better safe than sorry and _NOT_ put it up.

                        >
                        > Tibor
                        >

                        Robin
                      • Mark Schuldenfrei
                        ... I ve read a bit on the topic - never heard that analysis or language before. The author has rights, which he or she can sell, waive or keep. If the
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 2 8:59 AM
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                          > But the copyright on the article is the more specific copyright and takes
                          > precedent, as I understand it.

                          I've read a bit on the topic - never heard that analysis or language
                          before.

                          The author has rights, which he or she can sell, waive or keep. If
                          the article appears in a magazine, there is obviously (hopefully) a
                          legal agreement between the two parties giving the right to make
                          copies to the magazine. Perhaps even assigning the entire copyright
                          to the magazine. Or something in between.

                          But, for purposes of fair use, it does not matter at all who holds
                          the copyright - only what your use of it is for, and what your use
                          does to their commercial rights.

                          In this case, there is ZERO commercial use or interest.


                          > Copyright is tricky and slippery, and not even copyright lawyers can agree on
                          > some things. My advice is better safe than sorry and _NOT_ put it up.

                          While there are some interesting edge cases, most copyright lawyers
                          seem to have basic understandings of the simple cases like this one.
                          I'm not one of them. But I think that:

                          1. There is a Fair Use exemption here.

                          2. Even if the end result is to violate a copyright or if one of the
                          copyright holders wants you to THINK that there is - they will
                          send a cease and desist letter, and it can be taken down.

                          3. No one in their right mind would litigate this, even as a
                          copyright holder - it is not clear one would win, not clear
                          there are damages to be won, or that anyone would pay them.

                          Tibor
                        • Ld. Robin Gallowglass
                          ... I disagree with you, so I guess we re going to have to agree to disagree. ... Personally, being a copyright holder that has had his work infringed on many
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 2 9:11 AM
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                            On Thursday 02 March 2006 11:59, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:

                            > 1. There is a Fair Use exemption here.

                            I disagree with you, so I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

                            >
                            > 2. Even if the end result is to violate a copyright or if one of the
                            > copyright holders wants you to THINK that there is - they will
                            > send a cease and desist letter, and it can be taken down.

                            Personally, being a copyright holder that has had his work infringed on many
                            times, albeit inadvertently due to lack of understand of copyright, I like to
                            err on the side of not doing anything that can potentially be a copyright
                            violation. But that's me :)

                            >
                            > 3. No one in their right mind would litigate this, even as a
                            > copyright holder - it is not clear one would win, not clear
                            > there are damages to be won, or that anyone would pay them.

                            That's not a risk I'd be willing to take. Anybody can sue anybody for what
                            ever reason, no matter how ridiculous. There are many, many examples of it,
                            as you more than likely know.

                            >
                            > Tibor
                            >

                            Robin
                          • Don Eisele
                            ... If commercial use or interest was the only factor, the RIAA/MPAA wouldn t sueing nearly as many people as they are right now. I think you are trying to use
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 2 9:12 AM
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                              >The author has rights, which he or she can sell, waive or keep. If
                              >the article appears in a magazine, there is obviously (hopefully) a
                              >legal agreement between the two parties giving the right to make
                              >copies to the magazine. Perhaps even assigning the entire copyright
                              >to the magazine. Or something in between.
                              >
                              >But, for purposes of fair use, it does not matter at all who holds
                              >the copyright - only what your use of it is for, and what your use
                              >does to their commercial rights.
                              >
                              >In this case, there is ZERO commercial use or interest.

                              If commercial use or interest was the only factor, the RIAA/MPAA wouldn't
                              sueing nearly as many people as they are right now.

                              I think you are trying to use the educational/research clause to justify
                              posting. I have two thoughts:
                              1. This forum is not an educational institution
                              2. What "research" goal is obtained by distributing it out to everyone on
                              the list.

                              Compare:
                              1. Single person going to a library, getting a copy of the article through ILL
                              (covers educational institution as it's a library, covers a single person
                              doing research)
                              2. Publishing an entire article to an entire email list.

                              >3. No one in their right mind would litigate this, even as a
                              > copyright holder - it is not clear one would win, not clear
                              > there are damages to be won, or that anyone would pay them.

                              Very true that someone won't get sued over this. The magazine wouldn't
                              want the bad press. However.. the MPAA/RIAA *has* won cases like this,
                              so there must be someone willing to litigate.


                              --
                              Don Quixote -- quixote@... http://toysmakeuspowerful.com
                              "I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself"
                            • Mark Schuldenfrei
                              ... True. But what they are doing is not based upon copyright, but DMCA, which doesn t apply to the printed media we are talking about. :-) ... It isn t? Oh,
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 2 9:20 AM
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                                > If commercial use or interest was the only factor, the RIAA/MPAA wouldn't
                                > sueing nearly as many people as they are right now.

                                True. But what they are doing is not based upon copyright,
                                but DMCA, which doesn't apply to the printed media we are talking
                                about. :-)

                                > I think you are trying to use the educational/research clause to justify
                                > posting. I have two thoughts:
                                > 1. This forum is not an educational institution

                                It isn't? Oh, drat, I wanted to learn something.

                                > 2. What "research" goal is obtained by distributing it out to everyone on
                                > the list.

                                Teaching more about how to do medieval woodworking, I guess.
                                Unless that is educational. :-)


                                > Compare:
                                > 1. Single person going to a library, getting a copy of the article
                                > through ILL
                                > (covers educational institution as it's a library, covers a single
                                > person
                                > doing research)
                                > 2. Publishing an entire article to an entire email list.

                                They are different. But are they different enough to transcend
                                categories? I contend not.

                                > Very true that someone won't get sued over this. The magazine wouldn't
                                > want the bad press. However.. the MPAA/RIAA *has* won cases like this,
                                > so there must be someone willing to litigate.

                                Again, totally different issue related to DMCA. And they actually
                                very rarely win, but often settle. From a friend of mine's web
                                log - he's a professional in issues of media, rights and law, as
                                well as an SCA person: ""The DRM, incompatibility and lawsuits" is a lot
                                like a media generated "crime wave." It is getting reported more, but
                                without any follow up on how customers respond and how lawsuits get
                                tossed out."

                                He wrote that 2/28/06. I trust his opinions, even casual ones,
                                since he also does things like testify before government committees
                                and so forth.

                                Tibor
                              • James Winkler
                                ... as everybody has stated that they aren t lawyers... ergo, none of this constitutes legal advise or council , let s call this exchange what it is... a
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 2 9:27 AM
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                                  Winking smiley emoticon  ... as everybody has stated that they aren't lawyers... ergo, none of this  constitutes 'legal advise or council', let's call this exchange what it is...  a fundamentally emotional outflow of frustration over the mess that the 'New Millennium Copyright Law' put us in...
                                   
                                  If we're going to site "friends in the profession" let's give name and contact for validation... otherwise its just a 'friend of a friend of somebody I met in a bar one day"... 
                                   
                                  As to whether to publish or not... that is up to the poster and the list owner...  they're the one's who ultimately must answer the question...
                                   
                                  Chas.
                                • Mark Schuldenfrei
                                  ... Digital Millennium Copyright Act. :-) We say that we are not lawyers, before we opine on law, for two reasons. One is that practicing law without a
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 2 9:34 AM
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                                    > Winking smiley emoticon ... as everybody has stated that they aren't
                                    > lawyers... ergo, none of this constitutes 'legal advise or council',
                                    > let's call this exchange what it is... a fundamentally emotional
                                    > outflow of frustration over the mess that the 'New Millennium Copyright
                                    > Law' put us in...

                                    Digital Millennium Copyright Act. :-)

                                    We say that we are not lawyers, before we opine on law, for two
                                    reasons. One is that practicing law without a license is illegal,
                                    so it is important to clarify that you are not doing so. The other
                                    is because I don't want people to give my words more (or less)
                                    weight than they are due.

                                    What it doesn't mean is that people are stupid or ignorant. :-)

                                    > If we're going to site "friends in the profession" let's give name and
                                    > contact for validation... otherwise its just a 'friend of a friend of
                                    > somebody I met in a bar one day"...

                                    Sigh. He did not render this opinion as a legal opinion, and it
                                    wasn't in a context of professional privilege. I happen to believe
                                    him, and he's very good. So, take this as "very knowledgeable person
                                    speaking off the cuff.

                                    Harold Feld, whose professional expertise can be found here.
                                    http://www.mediaaccess.org/about/people/index.html

                                    Please do not hold it against him that he is also Yaakov ha
                                    Mizrachi, and one of the best damned Poeta Atlantia's I have
                                    met... Or any sort of SCA poet.

                                    This was not a sock monkey, my friend. :-)

                                    Tibor
                                  • Don Eisele
                                    ... http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-b.html Educational purposes means: * non-commercial instruction or curriculumbased
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 2 9:36 AM
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                                      >> I think you are trying to use the educational/research clause to justify
                                      >> posting. I have two thoughts:
                                      >> 1. This forum is not an educational institution
                                      >
                                      >It isn't? Oh, drat, I wanted to learn something.
                                      >
                                      >> 2. What "research" goal is obtained by distributing it out to everyone on
                                      >> the list.
                                      >
                                      >Teaching more about how to do medieval woodworking, I guess.
                                      >Unless that is educational. :-)

                                      http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-b.html

                                      "Educational purposes" means:
                                      * non-commercial instruction or curriculumbased teaching by educators to students at nonprofit educational institutions
                                      * planned non-commercial study or investigation directed toward making a contribution to a field of knowledge, or
                                      * presentation of research findings at non-commercial peer conferences, workshops or seminars.



                                      --
                                      Don Quixote -- quixote@... http://toysmakeuspowerful.com
                                      "I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself"
                                    • Mark Schuldenfrei
                                      ... I think you misunderstood what you are referencing. That very useful source (which I have read and seen before) has a Chapter on a particular industry
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 2 9:55 AM
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                                        > http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-b.html

                                        I think you misunderstood what you are referencing. That very useful
                                        source (which I have read and seen before) has a Chapter on a particular
                                        industry agreement that applies to institutions of higher learning.

                                        That chapter, which you cite, defines who it applies to and how to
                                        define an institution of higher learning, and what subsets of fair
                                        use the industry has generally agreed are completely free and clear.

                                        Or, as it says elsewhere:
                                        Since the current copyright law was adopted, various organizations and
                                        scholars have established guidelines for educational uses. These
                                        guidelines are not part of the Copyright Act. However, the guidelines
                                        establish the standards for uses and copying in education. These
                                        guidelines, as well as other regulations and rules regarding
                                        educational uses are summarized in Chapter 7, which deals with
                                        academic and educational permissions.

                                        But it is a subset of such rights, not an exclusive list of all
                                        available rights. For that, there is a different chapter of that
                                        book, Chapter 9, found here:
                                        http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/index.html

                                        I think you misunderstood the point of that publication.

                                        (For the student - was your quotation of that web site a violation
                                        of fair use? Is mine?)

                                        Tibor
                                      • Michael Houghton
                                        Howdy! ... That s incomplete. The proposed action would be the republication of the entire article in a manner that is not clearly limited to nonprofit
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 2 10:13 AM
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                                          Howdy!

                                          On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:00:40AM -0500, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:
                                          > > > What weight would the "Fair Use Exception" have in
                                          > > > your analysis?
                                          > > > Tibor
                                          >
                                          > > None. I think 'Fair Use' would be the 'copy for your
                                          > > own personal use' example.
                                          >
                                          > I am not an attorney, and have no specific expertise. But my
                                          > plain reading of the law says to me that you are mistaken:
                                          >
                                          > ===================
                                          > § 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use
                                          >
                                          > Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of
                                          > a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or
                                          > phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for
                                          > purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including
                                          > multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an
                                          > infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work
                                          > in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall
                                          > include —
                                          >
                                          > (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is
                                          > of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
                                          >
                                          > (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
                                          >
                                          > (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the
                                          > copyrighted work as a whole; and
                                          >
                                          > (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the
                                          > copyrighted work.
                                          >
                                          > The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of
                                          > fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above
                                          > factors.
                                          > ===================
                                          >
                                          > In this case the purpose is non-commercial, is research only, is just
                                          > one article from a magazine, and doesn't have a substantial impact
                                          > upon the market value of the magazine.

                                          That's incomplete.

                                          The proposed action would be the republication of the entire article in
                                          a manner that is not clearly limited to nonprofit educational purposes
                                          as, say, distributing a limited number of copies to students in a class.
                                          Further, that republication could be seen as gutting the potential
                                          market for reprints of that article.

                                          I think that makes a strong argument that the proposed action does not
                                          fall under "fair use".
                                          >
                                          > Whether the commercial nature of Yahoo and advertising affects this,
                                          > I cannot say.
                                          >
                                          > I'd put it up.

                                          I wouldn't.

                                          yours,
                                          Herveus

                                          --
                                          Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
                                          herveus@... | White Wolf and the Phoenix narrowwares
                                          Bowie, MD, USA | http://whitewolfandphoenix.com
                                          Proud member of the SCA Internet Whitewash Squad
                                        • Eric
                                          I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV... I would argue that this board could be construed as a non-commercial peer conference, workshop or seminar. But
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 2 10:15 AM
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                                            I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV...

                                            I would argue that this board could be construed as a "non-commercial
                                            peer conference, workshop or seminar.

                                            But to be on the safe side, an intro should be written to frame the
                                            article into our area of interest with perhaps a referrence to an
                                            extant example and then insert the specific parts of the article that
                                            would be important to us. With ample credit given to the article's
                                            source, I would not think that there would be a problem.

                                            If anyone with rights to the work disagreed, the posting could be
                                            removed.

                                            Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
                                            Ulfsvikings, Barony of Angels, Caid

                                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Don Eisele <quixote@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >> I think you are trying to use the educational/research clause to
                                            justify
                                            > >> posting. I have two thoughts:
                                            > >> 1. This forum is not an educational institution
                                            > >
                                            > >It isn't? Oh, drat, I wanted to learn something....
                                            > >
                                            http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-
                                            b.html
                                            >
                                            > "Educational purposes" means:...
                                            > * presentation of research findings at non-commercial peer
                                            conferences, workshops or seminars.
                                            >
                                          • Mark Schuldenfrei
                                            ... Tay.... ... It is nonprofit in the sense that no one here is charging. Are reprints available? Tibor PS Secret Cryptic Message - Liverpole Says Hi
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 2 10:19 AM
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                                              > That's incomplete.

                                              'Tay....


                                              > The proposed action would be the republication of the entire article in
                                              > a manner that is not clearly limited to nonprofit educational purposes
                                              > as, say, distributing a limited number of copies to students in a class.
                                              > Further, that republication could be seen as gutting the potential
                                              > market for reprints of that article.

                                              It is nonprofit in the sense that no one here is charging.

                                              Are reprints available?

                                              Tibor

                                              PS Secret Cryptic Message - "Liverpole Says Hi"
                                            • Michael Houghton
                                              Howdy! ... The fact that the infringer is not profiting from the infringement does not make it not infringement . ... I don t know. The question is
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 2 10:41 AM
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                                                Howdy!

                                                On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 01:19:27PM -0500, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:
                                                > > That's incomplete.
                                                >
                                                > 'Tay....
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > The proposed action would be the republication of the entire article in
                                                > > a manner that is not clearly limited to nonprofit educational purposes
                                                > > as, say, distributing a limited number of copies to students in a class.
                                                > > Further, that republication could be seen as gutting the potential
                                                > > market for reprints of that article.
                                                >
                                                > It is nonprofit in the sense that no one here is charging.

                                                The fact that the "infringer" is not profiting from the infringement
                                                does not make it "not infringement".
                                                >
                                                > Are reprints available?
                                                >
                                                I don't know. The question is orthogonal to the fair use question.
                                                >
                                                > PS Secret Cryptic Message - "Liverpole Says Hi"
                                                >
                                                ahhh...

                                                yours,
                                                Herveus
                                                --
                                                Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
                                                herveus@... | White Wolf and the Phoenix narrowwares
                                                Bowie, MD, USA | http://whitewolfandphoenix.com
                                                Proud member of the SCA Internet Whitewash Squad
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