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Re: [MedievalSawdust] saw sharpening file

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  • Bruce S. R. Lee
    The Lee Valley files are the correct files for re-sharpening. I ve never had to sharpen a Japanese saw, but those files are SHARP - they are very like a knife
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 4, 2006
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      The Lee Valley files are the correct files for re-sharpening. I've
      never had to sharpen a Japanese saw, but those files are SHARP - they
      are very like a knife blade, so watch where your fingers or other
      body parts are. The factories use CNC controlled diamond coated
      wheels to cut the original teeth in all but the most expensive, hand
      made Japanese saws - most people just buy the replacement blades &
      throw the old one away. I suspect that those files would be excellent
      for lock making tho'.

      For sharpening a 'Western' saw, you need a triangular file (3 x 60
      degrees) & a flat file. You remove the 'set' in the teeth - possibly
      with a hammer & steel block, file the tops down level using the flat
      file, then re-cut the teeth with the triangular file (you need a very
      fine cut file) then re-set the teeth with one of those nifty plier
      gadgets. My Grandfather had all the gear, and occasionally sharpened
      his own saws, but eventually decided it was easier to send a bunch
      off to a 'saw doctor' when he had enough blunt saws to make it
      worthwhile & then pick them up at the shop a week or two later.

      Many modern saws are designed to be unsharpenable - they have
      'impulse hardened' teeth, which means the teeth are near glass hard
      from being put thru' some sort of induction furnace. You would have
      to grind away all of the hardened zone - the blue bit - and cut new
      teeth from scratch, then re-harden the edge of the blade with
      something like Oxy-Acetylene. When I wear out some of my cheapies I
      was thinking of making knives or flat springs out of the left over blade stock.

      regards
      Brusi of Orkney

      At 12:59 PM 4/02/2006, you wrote:
      ><http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32951&cat=1,43072,43089>http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32951&cat=1,43072,43089
      >
      >anyone ever use this? Could it be used to
      >sharpen non-japanese saws?
      >
      >Or do you have a sourde for the correct file?
      >
      >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
      >
      > Aude Aliquid Dignum
      > ' Dare Something Worthy '
    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      the acutal goal is to make a saw blade from .....something appropriate.... and to be able to sharpen some of the I have. ... Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 5, 2006
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        the acutal goal is to make a saw blade
        from .....something appropriate....

        and to be able to sharpen some of the
        I have.

        --- "Bruce S. R. Lee" <bsrlee2@...> wrote:

        > The Lee Valley files are the correct files for
        > re-sharpening. I've
        > never had to sharpen a Japanese saw, but those files
        > are SHARP - they
        > are very like a knife blade, so watch where your
        > fingers or other
        > body parts are. The factories use CNC controlled
        > diamond coated
        > wheels to cut the original teeth in all but the most
        > expensive, hand
        > made Japanese saws - most people just buy the
        > replacement blades &
        > throw the old one away. I suspect that those files
        > would be excellent
        > for lock making tho'.
        >
        > For sharpening a 'Western' saw, you need a
        > triangular file (3 x 60
        > degrees) & a flat file. You remove the 'set' in the
        > teeth - possibly
        > with a hammer & steel block, file the tops down
        > level using the flat
        > file, then re-cut the teeth with the triangular file
        > (you need a very
        > fine cut file) then re-set the teeth with one of
        > those nifty plier
        > gadgets. My Grandfather had all the gear, and
        > occasionally sharpened
        > his own saws, but eventually decided it was easier
        > to send a bunch
        > off to a 'saw doctor' when he had enough blunt saws
        > to make it
        > worthwhile & then pick them up at the shop a week or
        > two later.
        >
        > Many modern saws are designed to be unsharpenable -
        > they have
        > 'impulse hardened' teeth, which means the teeth are
        > near glass hard
        > from being put thru' some sort of induction furnace.
        > You would have
        > to grind away all of the hardened zone - the blue
        > bit - and cut new
        > teeth from scratch, then re-harden the edge of the
        > blade with
        > something like Oxy-Acetylene. When I wear out some
        > of my cheapies I
        > was thinking of making knives or flat springs out of
        > the left over blade stock.
        >
        > regards
        > Brusi of Orkney
        >
        > At 12:59 PM 4/02/2006, you wrote:
        >
        ><http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32951&cat=1,43072,43089>http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32951&cat=1,43072,43089
        > >
        > >anyone ever use this? Could it be used to
        > >sharpen non-japanese saws?
        > >
        > >Or do you have a sourde for the correct file?
        > >
        > >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
        > >
        > > Aude Aliquid Dignum
        > > ' Dare Something Worthy '
        >
        >
        >


        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

        Aude Aliquid Dignum
        ' Dare Something Worthy '

        __________________________________________________
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      • Hall, Hayward
        Triagular saw-files (tapered files) come in various sizes depending on the teeth-per-inch of the saw you re sharpeing (or butchering depending on you level of
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 6, 2006
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          Triagular saw-files (tapered files) come in various sizes depending on the teeth-per-inch of the saw you're sharpeing (or butchering depending on you level of skill).  These are specially designed so they leave a rounded gullet (the low part inbetween the teeth) which is less likely to crack or break than a sharp one, as opposed to a 3 cornered file which has sharp edges.
           
          A good reference to saw sharpening is here http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html (but I wouldnt recommened their overpriced 'sharpening kit' which comes with a saw to practice on).
           
          So, in answer to the orginal question, no, japanese-saw files would not be a good choice for sharpening what we would consider a standard saw.
           
          Tapered file kits are available online fairly cheap, and they are also available in most hardware stores.
           
          Guillaume


          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 5:54 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] saw sharpening file

          the acutal goal is to make a saw blade
          from .....something appropriate....

          and to be able to sharpen some of the
          I have.

          --- "Bruce S. R. Lee" <bsrlee2@...> wrote:

          > The Lee Valley files are the correct files for
          >
          re-sharpening. I've
          > never had to sharpen a Japanese saw, but those
          files
          > are SHARP - they
          > are very like a knife blade, so watch
          where your
          > fingers or other
          > body parts are. The factories use
          CNC controlled
          > diamond coated
          > wheels to cut the original teeth
          in all but the most
          > expensive, hand
          > made Japanese saws - most
          people just buy the
          > replacement blades &
          > throw the old one
          away. I suspect that those files
          > would be excellent
          > for lock
          making tho'.
          >
          > For sharpening a 'Western' saw, you need a
          >
          triangular file (3 x 60
          > degrees) & a flat file. You remove the
          'set' in the
          > teeth - possibly
          > with a hammer & steel block,
          file the tops down
          > level using the flat
          > file, then re-cut the
          teeth with the triangular file
          > (you need a very
          > fine cut file)
          then re-set the teeth with one of
          > those nifty plier
          > gadgets. My
          Grandfather had all the gear, and
          > occasionally sharpened
          > his
          own saws, but eventually decided it was easier
          > to send a bunch
          >
          off to a 'saw doctor' when he had enough blunt saws
          > to make it
          >
          worthwhile & then pick them up at the shop a week or
          > two
          later.
          >
          > Many modern saws are designed to be unsharpenable
          -
          > they have
          > 'impulse hardened' teeth, which means the teeth
          are
          > near glass hard
          > from being put thru' some sort of induction
          furnace.
          > You would have
          > to grind away all  of the hardened
          zone - the blue
          > bit - and cut new
          > teeth from scratch, then
          re-harden the edge of the
          > blade with
          > something like
          Oxy-Acetylene. When I wear out some
          > of my cheapies I
          > was
          thinking of making knives or flat springs out of
          > the left over blade
          stock.
          >
          > regards
          > Brusi of Orkney
          >
          > At
          12:59 PM 4/02/2006, you wrote:
          >
          ><
          href="http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32951&cat=1,43072,43089">http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32951&cat=1,43072,43089>http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32951&cat=1,43072,43089
          > >
          > >anyone ever use this?  Could it be used to
          > >sharpen non-japanese saws?
          > >
          > >Or do you have a sourde
          for the correct file?
          > >
          > >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim
          Hart
          > >
          > >    Aude Aliquid Dignum
          > >      ' Dare Something Worthy '
          >
          >
          >


          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

             Aude Aliquid Dignum
               ' Dare Something Worthy '

          __________________________________________________
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