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Pattens

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  • Avery Austringer
    I love my pattens. Have you tried wearing them when you are stuck outdoors in the cold for an extended period? You will be amazed at how much warmer you
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 16, 2006
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      I love my pattens. Have you tried wearing them when you are stuck
      outdoors in the cold for an extended period? You will be amazed at how
      much warmer you feel.

      > (My leather is stretching over a shoe size each wearing :-<).

      I had a bit of that, but it stopped pretty quickly. On my next pair I
      will pre-stretch them.

      > One of the main pictures I have seen of a patten maker at work
      > show an adz and several draw knives hung on the wall. So I am
      >wondering if it is reasonable to assume that I can do most of the
      >work with just those tools, or are more required?

      I'm guessing a patten maker would also have a saw and a plane or two,
      though draws and shaves might be good enough for doing the more
      primitive pattens.

      The real question your asking is when/where did patten making come into
      its own as an industry instead of something that someone did on the
      side.

      Avery
    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      Which kind of patten? The different styles/types require different sets of tools to make them.... Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 16, 2006
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        Which kind of patten?

        The different styles/types require different
        sets of tools to make them....



        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

        Aude Aliquid Dignum
        ' Dare Something Worthy '

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      • Iason Vorax
        ... Right there are three common styles: stilts, hinged, and layers of leather. I am starting with stilts. Jason
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 18, 2006
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          Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:

          >
          > Which kind of patten?
          >
          > The different styles/types require different
          > sets of tools to make them....
          >
          Right there are three common styles:
          stilts, hinged, and layers of leather.
          I am starting with stilts.

          Jason
        • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          ... they are hard to walk in..... I like the hinged style. I have also seen a hybrid between the clog type ( stilts? ) and the hinged type. Looking for better
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 19, 2006
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            > Right there are three common styles:
            > stilts, hinged, and layers of leather.
            > I am starting with stilts.
            >
            > Jason
            >
            they are hard to walk in.....

            I like the hinged style. I have also seen a
            hybrid between the clog type ( stilts? ) and
            the hinged type. Looking for better doc's on that
            type.



            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

            Aude Aliquid Dignum
            ' Dare Something Worthy '

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          • Iason Vorax
            ... When I have the straps tuned right they aren t so bad. More comfortable when wearing period shoes on hard surfaces, and especially on gravel or rocks. I go
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 19, 2006
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              >
              >
              > > Right there are three common styles:
              > > stilts, hinged, and layers of leather.
              > > I am starting with stilts.
              > >
              > > Jason
              > >
              > they are hard to walk in.....

              When I have the straps tuned right they aren't so bad.
              More comfortable when wearing period shoes on hard surfaces,
              and especially on gravel or rocks.
              I go up and down stairs fine. Main problem I have is they seem
              to want to twist. I suspect that is something I can fix with the straps.

              > I like the hinged style. I have also seen a
              > hybrid between the clog type ( stilts? ) and
              > the hinged type. Looking for better doc's on that
              > type.

              I still want to do those. One thing at a time. There are some
              finds of ones with two hinges but I don't recall any with hinges
              and stilts.

              Cheers,

              Jason
            • cuvien1438
              Hello, I m working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out of the muck and wet. It s a period solution to the problem of keeping dry and clean
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 29, 2009
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                Hello,

                I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.

                Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.

                I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                platforms or . . .

                Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                moisture? What else do I need to know?

                Thanks for your help,

                Cuvien
              • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                What thickness did you use? I use 3/4 or thicker ( I use scraps so sometimes it varies ) I ve never had a pair break before they wore out from use....It s
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 29, 2009
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                  What thickness did you use?

                  I use 3/4" or thicker ( I use scraps so sometimes it varies )

                  I've never had a pair break before they wore out
                  from use....It's possible you had a flawed piece
                  of wood to start even if you didn't see a crack in it.

                  Pictures would help to see if there are specific weak
                  points in your patten pattern.....


                   
                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                  Aude Aliquid Dignum
                  ' Dare Something Worthy '



                  From: cuvien1438 <cuvien1438@...>
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:47:13 PM
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                  Hello,

                  I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                  of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                  dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.

                  Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                  the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                  are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.

                  I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                  platforms or . . .

                  Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                  the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                  considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                  moisture? What else do I need to know?

                  Thanks for your help,

                  Cuvien


                • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                  I have made pattens out of ¾-inch poplar without problems. Of course, I used plane-sawed boards not quarter sawn, and I hinged them with an inlayed leather
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 29, 2009
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                    I have made pattens out of ¾-inch poplar without problems.  Of course, I used plane-sawed boards not quarter sawn, and I hinged them with an inlayed leather hinge at the ball of the foot.  Some pattens were close to two inches thick.

                     

                    James Cunningham

                    Un-lurking for a moment

                     


                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of cuvien1438
                    Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:47 PM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                     

                    Hello,

                    I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                    of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                    dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.

                    Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                    the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                    are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.

                    I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                    platforms or . . .

                    Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                    the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                    considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                    moisture? What else do I need to know?

                    Thanks for your help,

                    Cuvien

                  • Royce
                    Greetings to the list, I know I haven t really put anything up on the list, project, comment or otherwise as mostly I lurk since I don t really have much of a
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 29, 2009
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                      Greetings to the list,

                       

                      I know I haven’t really put anything up on the list, project, comment or otherwise as mostly I lurk since I don’t really have much of a shop yet, much less anything resembling a project…

                       

                      However, this one really highlighted itself in my mind as Estrella is coming up and I am having bad flashbacks to last year.  Pattens seem like a very good idea right now.

                       

                      I was wondering what there is to patten construction and would it be reasonable to add some sort of “cleat” set up to give added traction?

                       

                      Lord Bercilak of Starkhafn

                       

                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                      Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:59 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                       

                      What thickness did you use?

                      I use 3/4" or thicker ( I use scraps so sometimes it varies )

                      I've never had a pair break before they wore out
                      from use....It's possible you had a flawed piece
                      of wood to start even if you didn't see a crack in it.

                      Pictures would help to see if there are specific weak
                      points in your patten pattern.....

                       

                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      ' Dare Something Worthy '

                       

                       


                      From: cuvien1438 <cuvien1438@...>
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:47:13 PM
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                      Hello,

                      I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                      of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                      dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.

                      Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                      the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                      are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.

                      I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                      platforms or . . .

                      Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                      the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                      considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                      moisture? What else do I need to know?

                      Thanks for your help,

                      Cuvien

                       

                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.15/1923 - Release Date: 01/29/09 07:13:00

                    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                      From my experience cleats, grooves, and hob nails collect mud and stones and will carry them into the tent. Traction is not normally a problem unless
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 29, 2009
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                        From my experience “cleats,” “grooves,” and “hob nails” collect mud and stones and will carry them into the tent.  Traction is not normally a problem unless you live on Rune Stone Hill and then it is not the traction between the ground and patten but the patten and Shoe.  The heal cup or strap has to be strong and well positioned, and with enough “drainage” to let out any stone that gets between the shoe and patten.  By the way, pattens are to get you to and from the dance hall and court; they are not for fighting, dancing, or mud wrestling!

                         

                        James Cunningham

                        Greetings to the list,

                         

                        I know I haven’t really put anything up on the list, project, comment or otherwise as mostly I lurk since I don’t really have much of a shop yet, much less anything resembling a project…

                         

                        However, this one really highlighted itself in my mind as Estrella is coming up and I am having bad flashbacks to last year.  Pattens seem like a very good idea right now.

                         

                        I was wondering what there is to patten construction and would it be reasonable to add some sort of “cleat” set up to give added traction?

                         

                        Lord Bercilak of Starkhafn

                         

                        From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com ] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                        Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:59 PM
                        To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                         

                        What thickness did you use?

                        I use 3/4" or thicker ( I use scraps so sometimes it varies )

                        I've never had a pair break before they wore out
                        from use....It's possible you had a flawed piece
                        of wood to start even if you didn't see a crack in it.

                        Pictures would help to see if there are specific weak
                        points in your patten pattern.....


                         

                        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                        Aude Aliquid Dignum
                        ' Dare Something Worthy '

                         

                         


                        From: cuvien1438 <cuvien1438@yahoo. com>
                        To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:47:13 PM
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                        Hello,

                        I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                        of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                        dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.

                        Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                        the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                        are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.

                        I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                        platforms or . . .

                        Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                        the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                        considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                        moisture? What else do I need to know?

                        Thanks for your help,

                        Cuvien

                         

                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.15/1923 - Release Date: 01/29/09 07:13:00

                      • James Barker
                        Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009 If I recall Shoes and
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 30, 2009
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                          If I recall "Shoes and Pattens" has a couple of paragraphs on poplar used in pattens and that they only used one specific type as the rest was to soft and didn't hold up. I have tried poplar a couple of times because I had it on hand and I have broken them each time, thickness and running the grain different ways has done nothing to fix the problem. Jeff J. pointed out to me a while back that alder is the most common wood in the London finds.

                          James


                          > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          > From: cuvien1438@...
                          > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:47:13 +0000
                          > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens
                          >
                          > Hello,
                          >
                          > I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                          > of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                          > dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.
                          >
                          > Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                          > the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                          > are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.
                          >
                          > I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                          > platforms or . . .
                          >
                          > Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                          > the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                          > considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                          > moisture? What else do I need to know?
                          >
                          > Thanks for your help,
                          >
                          > Cuvien
                          >
                          >
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                        • Alex Haugland
                          I would stay away from plywood, as it tends to de-laminate when wet and obviously looks like plywood on the edges. How thick was the wood to start with? The
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 30, 2009
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                            I would stay away from plywood, as it tends to de-laminate when wet and obviously looks like plywood on the edges. How thick was the wood to start with?  The two things that generally help the most with strength of wood are grain orientation and thickness, but some species of wood are also just more prone to splitting than others.  It sounds like some others have been successful with poplar, while others haven't.   There are definitely more bulletproof woods you can look at in this country like hickory, maple, ash, or even oak.  I don't know what's available in your area but I can also get European alder and European beech at my local furniture grade lumber yard and the prices are pretty good ($3.50-$4.50 a board foot).  If you're happy with the fit of your original pattern, then I'd say it's a good time to consider upgrading to a sturdier wood, perhaps thicker (3/4"+) using your current pair as a pattern.

                            --Alysaundre Weldon d'Ath
                            Barony of Adiantum, An Tir

                            cuvien1438 wrote:

                            Hello,

                            I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                            of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                            dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.

                            Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                            the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                            are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.

                            I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                            platforms or . . .

                            Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                            the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                            considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                            moisture? What else do I need to know?

                            Thanks for your help,

                            Cuvien


                          • Bill McNutt
                            I, too recommend strongly against plywood. Not only will the appearance be unmistakable and un-disguisable, they will delaminate on you. How thick was your
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jan 30, 2009
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                              I, too recommend strongly against plywood.  Not only will the appearance be unmistakable and un-disguisable, they will delaminate on you.  How thick was your poplar?


                              Does anyone know what period pattens were made out of?  You’d need a tight-grained wood with strong lignin bonds between the growth rings for this very reason.

                               

                              Shooting from the hip, I’d be prone to guess maple or white oak.  Red oak is too porous and walnut is too soft.  Lindenwood maybe (basswood)?  Or would that be too soft, too?  What are those commercially available wooden shoes that Smoke and Fire sells at Pennsic made of?  Anybody know?

                               

                              Will

                               

                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cuvien1438
                              Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:47 PM
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                               

                              Hello,

                              I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                              of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                              dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.

                              Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                              the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                              are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.

                              I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                              platforms or . . .

                              Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                              the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                              considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                              moisture? What else do I need to know?

                              Thanks for your help,

                              Cuvien

                            • Bill McNutt
                              Is there a new-world equivalent? Or is alder available over here other than at ruinous shipping rates from the Olde Countrie? Will From:
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jan 30, 2009
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                                Is there a new-world equivalent?  Or is alder available over here other than at ruinous shipping rates from the Olde Countrie?

                                 

                                Will

                                 

                                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Barker
                                Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:48 AM
                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                                 

                                If I recall "Shoes and Pattens" has a couple of paragraphs on poplar used in pattens and that they only used one specific type as the rest was to soft and didn't hold up. I have tried poplar a couple of times because I had it on hand and I have broken them each time, thickness and running the grain different ways has done nothing to fix the problem. Jeff J. pointed out to me a while back that alder is the most common wood in the London finds.

                                James


                                > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: cuvien1438@...
                                > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:47:13 +0000
                                > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens
                                >
                                > Hello,
                                >
                                > I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                                > of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                                > dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.
                                >
                                > Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                                > the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                                > are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.
                                >
                                > I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                                > platforms or . . .
                                >
                                > Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                                > the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                                > considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                                > moisture? What else do I need to know?
                                >
                                > Thanks for your help,
                                >
                                > Cuvien
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
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                              • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                I have to ask a potentially embarrassing question... Are you on the large size? You might need a stronger thicker wood..... I am also of the opinion that
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jan 30, 2009
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                                  I have to ask a potentially embarrassing question...

                                  Are you on the large size? You might need a stronger
                                  thicker wood.....

                                  I am also of the opinion that pattens were close to
                                  a disposable item.... Not a lot of effort went into them
                                  ( except maybe in the case of wearers of higher rank
                                  showing off.... ) I've actually held a few surviving examples
                                  that the Museum of London has.... They are not fancy...
                                  'Basic utilitarian' would be how I would describe them.

                                  I will add to my prior comments that the harder woods
                                  tend to cause a 'wobble' when you step on a stone as
                                  they tend to balance on the stone instead of denting and
                                  ( this is hard to put into words ) absorbing some of the
                                  force of the 'step'....... Think along the lines of twisted
                                  ankles.....

                                  Pictures would help a lot.
                                  So would details of how you made them....
                                  What kind of nails or tacks are you using?
                                  Where did they break?


                                  I cracked a few driving nails into them until I started pre-drilling
                                  the holes....so maybe if you caused a 'hidden' crack to form
                                  at that point they were already weakened before you even put
                                  them on....




                                   
                                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                  Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                  ' Dare Something Worthy '



                                  From: Alex Haugland <ahauglan@...>
                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:42:04 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens

                                  I would stay away from plywood, as it tends to de-laminate when wet and obviously looks like plywood on the edges. How thick was the wood to start with?  The two things that generally help the most with strength of wood are grain orientation and thickness, but some species of wood are also just more prone to splitting than others.  It sounds like some others have been successful with poplar, while others haven't.   There are definitely more bulletproof woods you can look at in this country like hickory, maple, ash, or even oak.  I don't know what's available in your area but I can also get European alder and European beech at my local furniture grade lumber yard and the prices are pretty good ($3.50-$4.50 a board foot).  If you're happy with the fit of your original pattern, then I'd say it's a good time to consider upgrading to a sturdier wood, perhaps thicker (3/4"+) using your current pair as a pattern.

                                  --Alysaundre Weldon d'Ath
                                  Barony of Adiantum, An Tir

                                  cuvien1438 wrote:

                                  Hello,

                                  I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                                  of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                                  dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.

                                  Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                                  the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                                  are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.

                                  I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                                  platforms or . . .

                                  Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                                  the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                                  considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                                  moisture? What else do I need to know?

                                  Thanks for your help,

                                  Cuvien



                                • Beth and Bob Matney
                                  Some alder species are native to N. America.. I had some sawn lumber here in Arkansas some years ago. It is however normally considered a trash tree and is
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jan 30, 2009
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                                    Some alder species are native to N. America.. I had some sawn lumber
                                    here in Arkansas some years ago. It is however normally considered a
                                    'trash' tree and is rarely available even from small local mills. I
                                    personally think sweet gum would be a good wood to make pattens from.
                                    Nice light wood that will not split worth spit (ask anyone who has
                                    tried to use it for firewood).

                                    I have seen several pattens in museums in Europe.. even saw a work
                                    shop preserved from last century. Some are simply "carved" from a
                                    basic billet (similar to Dutch wooden shoes), others were assembled.

                                    Beth Matney

                                    At 11:15 AM 1/30/2009, you wrote:

                                    >Is there a new-world equivalent? Or is alder available over here
                                    >other than at ruinous shipping rates from the Olde Countrie?
                                    >
                                    >Will
                                  • Rebekah d'Avignon
                                    Beth and Bob Matney wrote: Some alder species are native to N. America.. I had some sawn lumber here in Arkansas some years
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jan 30, 2009
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                                      Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                                      Some alder species are native to N. America.. I had some sawn lumber
                                      here in Arkansas some years ago. It is however normally considered a
                                      'trash' tree and is rarely available even from small local mills. I
                                      personally think sweet gum would be a good wood to make pattens from.
                                      Nice light wood that will not split worth spit (ask anyone who has
                                      tried to use it for firewood).

                                      I have seen several pattens in museums in Europe.. even saw a work
                                      shop preserved from last century. Some are simply "carved" from a
                                      basic billet (similar to Dutch wooden shoes), others were assembled.

                                      Beth Matney
                                      .

                                      = = = = =
                                      Elm....if you can get it. You can't split elm easily. Very tough wood. Also try Osage Orange and Black Locust. Tough woods that weather well (ie fenceposts).


                                      RdA
                                      "We cannot expect the American to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of Socialism until they suddenly awake to find that they have Communism." Soviet Leader Nikita Krushchev - 1959

                                    • Jeff Johnson
                                      For pattens you need a lightweight wood that can deal with being wet. (And Alder not splitting worth spit is a very good property!) Finds are in soft light
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jan 31, 2009
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                                        For pattens you need a lightweight wood that can deal with being wet.
                                        (And Alder not splitting worth spit is a very good property!) Finds
                                        are in soft light stuff like Linden (called Basswood in the US),
                                        Alder, elm, birch, poplar (in the US, tulipwood is oft sold as poplar).

                                        A lot of the pattens I see sold are too-thin lumberyard poplar/tulip,
                                        with the leather hinge. These do tend to split up the length. They
                                        also aren't shaped to the medieval shoe profile and don't always move
                                        well with the wearer's gait. And one-piece unshaped slab pattens
                                        (wooden flip-flops) really don't move naturally at all - you have to
                                        put in cut-outs at the heal and toes to allow the shoe to rock with
                                        the step.

                                        I've made about a dozen sets of one-piece pattens in basswood and
                                        North American alder, from toddler sized for my boys to ginormous size
                                        16s for a really big fellow. The trick is in placing the cut-outs

                                        One cheat to consider is to get your hands on a pair of dutch wooden
                                        shoes and cut the uppers off and replace them with strapping.

                                        Toddler and size 16 pattens in alder (the 16's are even bigger than
                                        they look in the photos!):

                                        http://www.mathildegirlgenius.com/gallery/albums/08Pennsic/small20080804_014.sized.jpg

                                        http://www.mathildegirlgenius.com/gallery/albums/08Pennsic/small20080804_018.sized.jpg

                                        Geoffrey Bourre' / Jeff Johnson

                                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                                        <bmatney@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Some alder species are native to N. America.. I had some sawn lumber
                                        > here in Arkansas some years ago. It is however normally considered a
                                        > 'trash' tree and is rarely available even from small local mills. I
                                        > personally think sweet gum would be a good wood to make pattens from.
                                        > Nice light wood that will not split worth spit (ask anyone who has
                                        > tried to use it for firewood).
                                        >
                                        > I have seen several pattens in museums in Europe.. even saw a work
                                        > shop preserved from last century. Some are simply "carved" from a
                                        > basic billet (similar to Dutch wooden shoes), others were assembled.
                                        >
                                        > Beth Matney
                                        >
                                        > At 11:15 AM 1/30/2009, you wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >Is there a new-world equivalent? Or is alder available over here
                                        > >other than at ruinous shipping rates from the Olde Countrie?
                                        > >
                                        > >Will
                                        >
                                      • Jeff Johnson
                                        About disposability: Sometimes. Likely more often than not, they were cheap & disposable. Stepping through Time has pattens with uppers of a range of
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jan 31, 2009
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                                          About disposability: Sometimes. Likely more often than not, they were
                                          cheap & disposable. "Stepping through Time" has pattens with uppers of
                                          a range of decorations from utterly plain to extremely ornate.

                                          Don't know about softwoods absorbing shock much more. I know that it's
                                          easier to walk and less tiring to wear light footwear than heavy
                                          boots. I suspect that, hardwood or soft, the bottoms will eventually
                                          get chewed up on the sole and have about the same traction. A number
                                          of finds have metal cleats across the bottom, presumably for wear
                                          resistance and/or traction. I also know that walking on modern
                                          finished flooring and linoleum in wooden pattens is slippery as heck.
                                          My boys have taken a few falls wearing pattens indoors. But they
                                          absolutely LOVE making the CLOP-CLOP-CLOP sound wearing them inside!

                                          Geoffrey Bourre' / Jeff Johnson

                                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                          <baronconal@...> wrote:
                                          > I am also of the opinion that pattens were close to
                                          > a disposable item.... Not a lot of effort went into them
                                          > ( except maybe in the case of wearers of higher rank
                                          > showing off.... ) I've actually held a few surviving examples
                                          > that the Museum of London has.... They are not fancy...
                                          > 'Basic utilitarian' would be how I would describe them.
                                          >
                                          > I will add to my prior comments that the harder woods
                                          > tend to cause a 'wobble' when you step on a stone as
                                          > they tend to balance on the stone instead of denting and
                                          > ( this is hard to put into words ) absorbing some of the
                                          > force of the 'step'....... Think along the lines of twisted
                                          > ankles.....
                                        • cuvien1438
                                          Hey Thanks everybody for all your intelligent responses. My pattens were about a half inch thick and were hinged at the ball of the foot with inlayed leather.
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 1, 2009
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                                            Hey Thanks everybody for all your intelligent responses.

                                            My pattens were about a half inch thick and were hinged at the ball of
                                            the foot with inlayed leather. I used tacks like Geoffrey used (see his
                                            pics), but didn't think to pre-drill! That's likely where I went wrong,
                                            I think it got cracked by the tack. Now I'll have to consider all the
                                            woods that have been considered by my friends here before I proceed in
                                            starting over on my project. Hmmmmm!

                                            Perhaps I'll stay with my wood and just predrill. At least it won't be
                                            plywood, which evokes an extraordinarily negative response. I'm ok with
                                            this and realize that it looks un-period, so I'll keep at it. You guys
                                            seem like you've done it all before, which is very good for me. I don't
                                            have to re-invent the wheel.

                                            Thanks again, and I'll try to get some pics, if I can get the hang of
                                            it.

                                            Cuvien
                                          • Jeff Johnson
                                            I d be concerned that half-inch thick pattens will split. For the amount of effort you are going to put into them, you might want to go spend a couple bucks
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 1, 2009
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                                              I'd be concerned that half-inch thick pattens will split. For the
                                              amount of effort you are going to put into them, you might want to go
                                              spend a couple bucks more and use some thicker wood. If you can't get
                                              thicker wood readily, you could make them double-thick by gluing two
                                              pieces together on top of each other with some water-proof glue, maybe
                                              aligning the pieces so the grains aren't exactly parallel, to help
                                              split resistance.

                                              Besides, a half-inch thick patten isn't going to keep you well out of
                                              the mud.

                                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "cuvien1438" <cuvien1438@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hey Thanks everybody for all your intelligent responses.
                                              >
                                              > My pattens were about a half inch thick and were hinged at the ball of
                                              > the foot with inlayed leather. I used tacks like Geoffrey used (see his
                                              > pics), but didn't think to pre-drill! That's likely where I went wrong,
                                              > I think it got cracked by the tack. Now I'll have to consider all the
                                              > woods that have been considered by my friends here before I proceed in
                                              > starting over on my project. Hmmmmm!
                                              >
                                              > Perhaps I'll stay with my wood and just predrill. At least it won't be
                                              > plywood, which evokes an extraordinarily negative response. I'm ok with
                                              > this and realize that it looks un-period, so I'll keep at it. You guys
                                              > seem like you've done it all before, which is very good for me. I don't
                                              > have to re-invent the wheel.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks again, and I'll try to get some pics, if I can get the hang of
                                              > it.
                                              >
                                              > Cuvien
                                              >
                                            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                              My pattens were about a half inch thick I would not go with less than 3/4 Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Feb 1, 2009
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                                                My pattens were about a half inch thick

                                                I would not go with less than 3/4"
                                                 
                                                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                                ' Dare Something Worthy '

                                              • conradh@efn.org
                                                ... Here in AnTir, we have a couple of alder species that are real trees, not trash wood or brush. They are used in furniture making locally, and I personally
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Feb 2, 2009
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                                                  On Fri, January 30, 2009 9:15 am, Bill McNutt wrote:
                                                  > Is there a new-world equivalent? Or is alder available over here other
                                                  > than at ruinous shipping rates from the Olde Countrie?
                                                  >
                                                  Here in AnTir, we have a couple of alder species that are real trees, not
                                                  trash wood or brush. They are used in furniture making locally, and I
                                                  personally have made wooden handscrew clamps out of them. They were
                                                  strong enough for the clamps and worked easily enough.

                                                  Ulfhedinn
                                                • avery1415@sbcglobal.net
                                                  I did some pattens a while back out of some scrap fir I had from a house project. It worked alright, but died young due to splitting. I d advise elm as well,
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Feb 2, 2009
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                                                    I did some pattens a while back out of some scrap fir I had from a house project. It worked alright, but died young due to splitting.

                                                    I'd advise elm as well, but as has been said, it's hard (but not impossible) to track down. I'd say get out the phone book and call a couple woodcutters (or see if someone in your kingdom does this sort of thing for a living) and ask them if they've got an elm to take down any time soon, and, if so, could you have a chunk that's maybe a foot across and a foot and a half long for a project your wanting to try.

                                                    You may get the "G'way kid, you bother me" response a couple times, but you may be able to get your wood for free (except of that painful cutting boards from a log part).

                                                    I'd also say white oak is a pretty good choice.

                                                    Avery
                                                  • Bill McNutt
                                                    Oh, one other thing you can try: drill a hole across the grain and glue a dowel in it. This will re-enforce the structure of the wood and help prevent
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Feb 2, 2009
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                                                      Oh, one other thing you can try:  drill a hole across the grain and glue a dowel in it.  This will re-enforce the structure of the wood and help prevent splitting.

                                                       

                                                      Will

                                                       

                                                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cuvien1438
                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 4:08 AM
                                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Pattens

                                                       

                                                      Hey Thanks everybody for all your intelligent responses.

                                                      My pattens were about a half inch thick and were hinged at the ball of
                                                      the foot with inlayed leather. I used tacks like Geoffrey used (see his
                                                      pics), but didn't think to pre-drill! That's likely where I went wrong,
                                                      I think it got cracked by the tack. Now I'll have to consider all the
                                                      woods that have been considered by my friends here before I proceed in
                                                      starting over on my project. Hmmmmm!

                                                      Perhaps I'll stay with my wood and just predrill. At least it won't be
                                                      plywood, which evokes an extraordinarily negative response. I'm ok with
                                                      this and realize that it looks un-period, so I'll keep at it. You guys
                                                      seem like you've done it all before, which is very good for me. I don't
                                                      have to re-invent the wheel.

                                                      Thanks again, and I'll try to get some pics, if I can get the hang of
                                                      it.

                                                      Cuvien

                                                    • cedricofthanet
                                                      Aside from alder and poplar the Shoes and Pattens book also notes members of the Salicaceae family which would also include willows. It d also be light and
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Feb 8, 2009
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                                                        Aside from alder and poplar the "Shoes and Pattens" book also notes
                                                        members of the Salicaceae family which would also include willows.
                                                        It'd also be light and easy to work. I've been looking around for
                                                        some to try for this purpose and a hopeful Coppergate box
                                                        reconstruction, but all the wood around here is covered in snow at the
                                                        moment and will be till about May.

                                                        Cedric of Thanet (new to the list)



                                                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bill McNutt" <mcnutt@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Is there a new-world equivalent? Or is alder available over here
                                                        other than
                                                        > at ruinous shipping rates from the Olde Countrie?
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Will
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Barker
                                                        > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:48 AM
                                                        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > If I recall "Shoes and Pattens" has a couple of paragraphs on poplar
                                                        used in
                                                        > pattens and that they only used one specific type as the rest was to
                                                        soft
                                                        > and didn't hold up. I have tried poplar a couple of times because I
                                                        had it
                                                        > on hand and I have broken them each time, thickness and running the
                                                        grain
                                                        > different ways has done nothing to fix the problem. Jeff J. pointed
                                                        out to
                                                        > me a while back that alder is the most common wood in the London finds.
                                                        >
                                                        > James
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > From: cuvien1438@...
                                                        > > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:47:13 +0000
                                                        > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pattens
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Hello,
                                                        > >
                                                        > > I'm working on a pair of pattens to wear on my shoes to keep me out
                                                        > > of the muck and wet. It's a period solution to the problem of keeping
                                                        > > dry and clean in a world made out of water and dirt.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Now the problem I have is that my first attempt has failed. One of
                                                        > > the poplar platforms I used has broken. I stepped on a rock and they
                                                        > > are apparently too thin to withstand the strain.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > I could either start over and use a thicker piece of wood for the
                                                        > > platforms or . . .
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Could I add a layer of 1/2" plywood to the ones I have, glue and nail
                                                        > > the whole affair? If so, what kind of glue would you suggest
                                                        > > considering the difficult stresses it will be exposed to, and the
                                                        > > moisture? What else do I need to know?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Thanks for your help,
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Cuvien
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > _____
                                                        >
                                                        > Windows LiveT: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. Check
                                                        it out.
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