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lamination bending arches

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  • jared riesenweber
    Has anyone ever successfully glued green oak? I am making 8 foot half arches (gothic) on a form in glue lamination. The green oak I am using is free and bends
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 3, 2006
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      Has anyone ever successfully glued green oak? I am making 8 foot half arches (gothic) on a form in glue lamination.  The green oak I am using is free and bends easily without steaming, unfortunatly green would can not be bonded with wood glue, at all.  When liquid nails also failed to do a decent job, I was surprised, I may try numerous fasteners next, drywall screws and a lot of pin nails, I would rather not use dry wood, it bends a lot harder with more springback.  Cant help but think there is an adhesive that would work.


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    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
      How thick is the oak? What you might try is put the boards in the form and let them dry there. After they have dried you should be able to glue them. James
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 3, 2006
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        How thick is the oak?  What you might try is put the boards in the form and let them dry there.  After they have dried you should be able to glue them.
         
        James Cunningham
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:53 PM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] lamination bending arches

        Has anyone ever successfully glued green oak? I am making 8 foot half arches (gothic) on a form in glue lamination.  The green oak I am using is free and bends easily without steaming, unfortunatly green would can not be bonded with wood glue, at all.  When liquid nails also failed to do a decent job, I was surprised, I may try numerous fasteners next, drywall screws and a lot of pin nails, I would rather not use dry wood, it bends a lot harder with more springback.  Cant help but think there is an adhesive that would work.


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      • Tim Bray
        Polyurethane glue (such as Gorilla Glue) is the only thing I can think of that might work on green wood. It cures by reaction with moisture, which will
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 3, 2006
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          Polyurethane glue (such as Gorilla Glue) is the only thing I can think of that might work on green wood.  It cures by reaction with moisture, which will certainly be abundant.

          Nothing else that I can think of would have a chance.  

          The way you bend dry wood is to steam it first.  Many publications, and probably several Web sites, describe this technique.  You steam the wood, then form it (quickly, while it's hot), let it cool and dry.   This can be done even with big stuff; timber-framers have done it successfully.  No gluing required.

          The other option is to bend your green wood and let it dry while attached to the form.  Slow, but sure.

          Cheers,
          Colin


           
          At 02:53 PM 1/3/2006 -0800, you wrote:
          Has anyone ever successfully glued green oak? I am making 8 foot half arches (gothic) on a form in glue lamination.  The green oak I am using is free and bends easily without steaming, unfortunatly green would can not be bonded with wood glue, at all.  When liquid nails also failed to do a decent job, I was surprised, I may try numerous fasteners next, drywall screws and a lot of pin nails, I would rather not use dry wood, it bends a lot harder with more springback.  Cant help but think there is an adhesive that would work.




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        • tudweber_jr
          --I have been attempting the bend with two layers 1/2 thick, I realize this is much thicker than you would normally use for lamination of dry stock, and fewer
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 3, 2006
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            --I have been attempting the bend with two layers 1/2" thick, I
            realize this is much thicker than you would normally use for
            lamination of dry stock, and fewer layers and greater thickness
            results in more springback. But the wood is green enough that I can
            easily put the bend in up to four layers at once, by hand,(using a
            clamp to hold it, not to draw it up) I need to make 8 half arches, so
            I would need a lot more forms, or one really large one to hold them
            all till they dried, but that is what I may have to do. The added
            problem is that the wood is cull boards that I get in bundles of slabs
            for firewood,(thats why its free) so it is of such poor quality, that
            while it will make the bend green, it would probably break if you
            attempted to bend it dry, due to knots and excessive grain runout.
            Looks like I may have to be really patient with this one,
            Thanks
            Jared
            -
            In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
            <cunning@f...> wrote:
            >
            > How thick is the oak? What you might try is put the boards in the
            form and let them dry there. After they have dried you should be able
            to glue them.
            >
            > James Cunningham
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: jared riesenweber
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:53 PM
            > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] lamination bending arches
            >
            >
            > Has anyone ever successfully glued green oak? I am making 8 foot
            half arches (gothic) on a form in glue lamination. The green oak I am
            using is free and bends easily without steaming, unfortunatly green
            would can not be bonded with wood glue, at all. When liquid nails
            also failed to do a decent job, I was surprised, I may try numerous
            fasteners next, drywall screws and a lot of pin nails, I would rather
            not use dry wood, it bends a lot harder with more springback. Cant
            help but think there is an adhesive that would work.
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • James W. Pratt, Jr.
            One thing nice about slabs that come off the sawmill is that you have a lot to choose from. Yes I try to put as many knots and defects into the throw away
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 3, 2006
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              One thing nice about slabs that come off the sawmill is that you have a lot
              to choose from. Yes I try to put as many knots and defects into the throw
              away part of the log.

              Also with green wood you may be able to bend the full thickness wood you
              need and eliminate the glue all together.

              James Cunningham

              The added
              > problem is that the wood is cull boards that I get in bundles of slabs
              > for firewood,(thats why its free) so it is of such poor quality, that
              > while it will make the bend green, it would probably break if you
              > attempted to bend it dry, due to knots and excessive grain runout.
              > Looks like I may have to be really patient with this one,
              > Thanks
              > Jared
              > -
              > In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
              > <cunning@f...> wrote:
              > >
              > > How thick is the oak? What you might try is put the boards in the
              > form and let them dry there. After they have dried you should be able
              > to glue them.
              > >
              > > James Cunningham
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: jared riesenweber
              > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:53 PM
              > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] lamination bending arches
              > >
              > >
              > > Has anyone ever successfully glued green oak? I am making 8 foot
              > half arches (gothic) on a form in glue lamination. The green oak I am
              > using is free and bends easily without steaming, unfortunatly green
              > would can not be bonded with wood glue, at all. When liquid nails
              > also failed to do a decent job, I was surprised, I may try numerous
              > fasteners next, drywall screws and a lot of pin nails, I would rather
              > not use dry wood, it bends a lot harder with more springback. Cant
              > help but think there is an adhesive that would work.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----
              > > Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----
              > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              > >
              > > a.. Visit your group "medievalsawdust" on the web.
              > >
              > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              > >
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            • ampcbj
              I m not a big fan of gorilla glue. I ve had it fail in the most inoportune times for no apparent reason. If it s that important, I use a slow setting two
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 4, 2006
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                I'm not a big fan of gorilla glue. I've had it fail in the most
                inoportune times for no apparent reason. If it's that important, I
                use a slow setting two part epoxy. In five years, it's never failed &
                you don;t have to worry about the expanding foam.

                Egil
              • Tim Bray
                ... Won t stick to green wood, will it? I m not a big fan of PU glues either, except when they are the best thing for the situation. Nothing else sticks to
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 4, 2006
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                  I'm not a big fan of gorilla glue.  I've had it fail in the most
                  inoportune times for no apparent reason.  If it's that important, I
                  use a slow setting two part epoxy.  In five years, it's never failed &
                  you don;t have to worry about the expanding foam.

                  Won't stick to green wood, will it?

                  I'm not a big fan of PU glues either, except when they are the best thing for the situation.  Nothing else sticks to wet or damp materials like PU.   It does seem to be susceptible to breaking under shock load. 

                  The very best glue for green or damp wood might be the PL Premium Construction Adhesive.  It's a non-expanding polyurethane adhesive with high solids content, significant gap-filling property, and extremely high strength.  It is only available, AFAIK, in tubes for caulking guns.   Way better than Liquid Nails!

                  Cheers,
                  Colin
                • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                  have you tried Gorrila glue? ... Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy __________________________________________ Yahoo!
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 4, 2006
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                    have you tried Gorrila glue?



                    --- jared riesenweber <tudweber_jr@...> wrote:

                    > Has anyone ever successfully glued green oak? I am
                    > making 8 foot half arches (gothic) on a form in glue
                    > lamination. The green oak I am using is free and
                    > bends easily without steaming, unfortunatly green
                    > would can not be bonded with wood glue, at all.
                    > When liquid nails also failed to do a decent job, I
                    > was surprised, I may try numerous fasteners next,
                    > drywall screws and a lot of pin nails, I would
                    > rather not use dry wood, it bends a lot harder with
                    > more springback. Cant help but think there is an
                    > adhesive that would work.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just
                    > $16.99/mo. or less


                    Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                    Aude Aliquid Dignum
                    ' Dare Something Worthy '



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