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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Frame shims or packers

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  • maf@gleichen.ca
    They may have been available earlier, I just found them this year and I know Homedepot didn t have them 2 years ago. These look just like a traditional shim in
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 14, 2005
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      They may have been available earlier, I just found them this year and I know Homedepot didn't have them 2 years ago. These look just like a traditional shim in shape but are light brown and are a wod dust with plastic binder.
       
      Mark
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message ----- From: julian wilson
      Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 1:16 PM
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Frame shims or packers

      maf@... wrote:
      Having just finished in november with the installation of the exterior doors and windows SNIP I found something new SNIP synthetic shims made of ......(wood and plastic) they were way easier to use than the stupid cedar ones I've previously used, the same price and they don't split crack or warp and they slip in easier.
      COMMENT
      Hi, Guys, I lurk on this List, and enjoy learning from your exchanges the odd stuff that 35 years as a professional woodworker haven't already taught me.
      Specifically, your comments and researches on historical woodworking, and your reports on your experiments in replicating the same.
      But this post surprises me.
      Since I started watching "New Yankee Wor kshop" on our Satllite TV Channels, years back, -  I have become quite sure that professional craftsmen in the US Construction Industry enjoy many advantages that are not available to thoss of us who practice for example - the Woodworkers' Craft in the UK. Innovative products from inventive US Manufacturers; tools that our local Tool Merchants swear don't exist at all - but which I can find at online US Merchants such as "Coastal Tool & Supply" - to the extent that I don't buy tools in the UK any longer - unless they are simply too heavy - or too expensive to ship "across the Pond".
      But  graduated synthetic packing wedges?
      For at least the last 15 years - if memory serves - we in the UK Construction Industry have been able to buy plastic Frame Shims, shaped like an elongated "U", and graduated upwards from 1mm to 10mm in thickness, and colour-coded for thickness-ID, as well. I've worked in Frabnce and Germany as well, and I know these shims are also to be found in Builders' Merchants in those 2 Countries.
      Am I to take this post - because of Mat's surprise - as meaning that your US Construction Industry doesn't have the same product widely available "off the shelf" from your own Builders' Merchants?
      Interestedly yours
       
      Julian Wilson,
      in "olde" Jersey.


      Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

    • julian wilson
      maf@gleichen.ca wrote: They may have been available earlier, I just found them this year and I know Homedepot didn t have them 2 years ago. These look
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 14, 2005
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        maf@... wrote:
        They may have been available earlier, I just found them this year and I know Homedepot didn't have them 2 years ago. These look just like a traditional shim in shape but are light brown and are a wod dust with plastic binder.
        REPLY
        Mat,
        OK, understood. Just wondered, because you have so much kit that isn't available to us on this side of the Pond.
         
        Julian,
        in "olde" Jersey.



        Yours in Service,
        Julian Wilson,
        [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto  - "Si vis pacem, para bellum" [Trans:-"if you wish for Peace, prepare for War" ]
        late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to
        "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards",
        [the only mediæval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey]
        Meet us at <www.dukesleopards.org >">
        -


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      • James Renfro
        Hello all. I too am one of the lurkers of this list. I am also a Cabinet/woodworker by trade for the last five years, and a veteran of the dreaded
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 14, 2005
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          Hello all. I too am one of the lurkers of this list. I am also a Cabinet/woodworker by trade for the last five years, and a veteran of the dreaded installations and I have never heard of plastic shims. I would be interested to hear if there are any problems or troubles with them.
           
          In service
          James Renfro
          AKA Seamus McAlister
          Shire of Vulpine Reach
          Chattanooga, Tn. , USA
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of julian wilson
          Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 16:23
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Frame shims or packers

          maf@... wrote:
          They may have been available earlier, I just found them this year and I know Homedepot didn't have them 2 years ago. These look just like a traditional shim in shape but are light brown and are a wod dust with plastic binder.
          REPLY
          Mat,
          OK, understood. Just wondered, because you have so much kit that isn't available to us on this side of the Pond.
           
          Julian,
          in "olde" Jersey.



          Yours in Service,
          Julian Wilson,
          [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto  - "Si vis pacem, para bellum" [Trans:-"if you wish for Peace, prepare for War" ]
          late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to
          "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards",
          [the only mediæval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey]
          Meet us at <www.dukesleopards.org >">
          -


          To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.

        • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          Having hung doors professionally, I learned a few tricks for hanging doors. My favorite for doors that don t seem to fix correctly.... Blame the framers. ...
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 14, 2005
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            Having hung doors professionally, I learned a few
            tricks
            for hanging doors.

            My favorite for doors that don't seem to fix
            correctly....


            Blame the framers.


            --- "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@...> wrote:

            > I have done both, the French door is a pain because
            > you have to get both
            > doors to swing and meet in the middle. The key I
            > have found is have plenty
            > of wedges(to shim with) a REAL good level and try to
            > get the frame for the
            > windows and doors as strait as possible befor puting
            > them in(especially the
            > bottom sill on the doors if it is not level the
            > doors never will be. Do not
            > be afraid to rebuild the house to get it level, it
            > will be less frustrating
            > in the long run). OH yea a bigger rough opening is
            > better you have more
            > room to play. Just make sure you have plenty of
            > stuffing to fill the
            > cracks.
            >
            > James Cunningham
            > Supervising carpenter on Erik the Scouts house and
            > fixer of Countes
            > Shara's...thing.
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Avery Austringer" <avery1415@...>
            > To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:45 AM
            > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Learning
            >
            >
            > > Over the holidays I'm making some custom casement
            > windows and a pair of
            > > French doors and have been reading up on the
            > subject to avoid the
            > > obvious failures. In one of my books, in the
            > forward, the author tells
            > > about the first time he hung a door and what a
            > mess it was. After
            > > about 20 different adjustments, trimmings and
            > rehangs he's mostly there
            > > but has pretty much decided he never wants to hang
            > another door again
            > > as long as he lives. At theis point he makes some
            > disparaging remark
            > > about how things have been going when the
            > home-owner say's something
            > > like, "Yeah, but it looks like you're winning".
            > >
            > > The take home message - learning isn't loosing.
            > It just feels like it.
            > >
            > > Avery
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >


            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

            Aude Aliquid Dignum
            ' Dare Something Worthy '

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          • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            ... less than 1 year previous to this email the new home construction trade in Ohio and Kentucky uses wooden shims ( about 12 long ) Cedar or other crappy
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 14, 2005
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              > Am I to take this post - because of Mat's surprise
              > - as meaning that your US Construction Industry
              > doesn't have the same product widely available "off
              > the shelf" from your own Builders' Merchants?
              > Interestedly yours
              >
              > Julian Wilson,
              > in "olde" Jersey.
              >

              less than 1 year previous to this email the new home
              construction trade in Ohio and Kentucky uses wooden
              shims
              ( about 12" long ) Cedar or other crappy woods that
              are'nt
              good for much else'.

              Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

              Aude Aliquid Dignum
              ' Dare Something Worthy '

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • julian wilson
              James Renfro wrote: Hello all. I too am one of the lurkers of this list. I am also a Cabinet/woodworker by trade for the last
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 14, 2005
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                James Renfro <jmrenfro@...> wrote:
                Hello all. I too am one of the lurkers of this list. I am also a Cabinet/woodworker by trade for the last five years, and a veteran of the dreaded installations and I have never heard of plastic shims. I would be interested to hear if there are any problems or troubles with them.
                 
                Reply
                No problems I've ever experienced, or even heard of. 
                 I carry a mixed handful of the most common shim thicknesses in my van, and find them particularly useful for the installation of window cills, expecially deep ones [a typical local "barn conversion" can call for window cills  28 " front to back because of the original granite walls, the 4"cavity, the 4" concrete blocks of the new inner wall, and the 2.5" thick Thermaboard], door linings - especially those deeper than 5.25 ", and fitted-bedroom- and fitted-kitchen installations.
                Using the graduated, hard-plastic shims makes it both quick and easy to obtain a perfectly plumb and level and plane door- or window- frame, no matter how irregular the opening; - you just place your fixing screws, slide the extended arms of the U-shaped shim around them, and when you tighten the fixing screws there's no compression at all. The shims are 5" long, and 2" wide.
                 
                Talking barn conversions, BTW, - read the following and weep, guys: - we are just re-roofing an old farmhouse complex being turned into 8 dwelling units; and I have acquired several tons of the original roof and barn-floor timbers, dating from the 17th and late 18th Centuries. All in good condition, and re-cycleable. Oak and pitchpine. Plus four oak lintols from the first late 15th Century farmhouse on the site, which became first the dower cottage, and then the herdsman's cottage as the family got richer, and susequently built  bigger & better houses alongside each-other [roughly one every century].
                My Living History group will not only be able to have reproduction furniture and other woodwork items, they'll be able to have them made from antique timber!



                Yours in Service,
                Julian Wilson,
                [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto  - "Si vis pacem, para bellum" [Trans:-"if you wish for Peace, prepare for War" ]
                late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to
                "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards",
                [the only mediæval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey]
                Meet us at <www.dukesleopards.org >">
                -


                Play Santa's Celebrity Xmas Party, an exclusive game from Yahoo!
              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                Working with old houses, the walls, let alone the sills, are not square or level. I am not kiding about rebuilding the door frame. Without the sill being
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 14, 2005
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                  Working with old houses, the walls, let alone the sills, are not square or
                  level. I am not kiding about rebuilding the door frame. Without the sill
                  being level both ways it is impossible to get the door to set solidly, swing
                  correctly, and have that beautiful 3/32 inch clearance all the way round.

                  James Cunningham
                  He is not kidding about the retentive thing.

                  > Having hung doors professionally, I learned a few
                  > tricks
                  > for hanging doors.
                  >
                  > My favorite for doors that don't seem to fix
                  > correctly....
                  >
                  >
                  > Blame the framers.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I have done both, the French door is a pain because
                  > > you have to get both
                  > > doors to swing and meet in the middle. The key I
                  > > have found is have plenty
                  > > of wedges(to shim with) a REAL good level and try to
                  > > get the frame for the
                  > > windows and doors as strait as possible befor puting
                  > > them in(especially the
                  > > bottom sill on the doors if it is not level the
                  > > doors never will be. Do not
                  > > be afraid to rebuild the house to get it level, it
                  > > will be less frustrating
                  > > in the long run). OH yea a bigger rough opening is
                  > > better you have more
                  > > room to play. Just make sure you have plenty of
                  > > stuffing to fill the
                  > > cracks.
                  > >
                  > > James Cunningham
                  > > Supervising carpenter on Erik the Scouts house and
                  > > fixer of Countes
                  > > Shara's...thing.
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Avery Austringer" <avery1415@...>
                  > > To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:45 AM
                  > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Learning
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Over the holidays I'm making some custom casement
                  > > windows and a pair of
                  > > > French doors and have been reading up on the
                  > > subject to avoid the
                  > > > obvious failures. In one of my books, in the
                  > > forward, the author tells
                  > > > about the first time he hung a door and what a
                  > > mess it was. After
                  > > > about 20 different adjustments, trimmings and
                  > > rehangs he's mostly there
                  > > > but has pretty much decided he never wants to hang
                  > > another door again
                  > > > as long as he lives. At theis point he makes some
                  > > disparaging remark
                  > > > about how things have been going when the
                  > > home-owner say's something
                  > > > like, "Yeah, but it looks like you're winning".
                  > > >
                  > > > The take home message - learning isn't loosing.
                  > > It just feels like it.
                  > > >
                  > > > Avery
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                  >
                  > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                  > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Kip Lytle
                  I believe that the ONLY proper response to that is: You suck! Caen MacAddis (needs a new keyboard because his is covered in drool) julian wilson wrote:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 15, 2005
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                    I believe that the ONLY proper response to that is: "You suck!"

                    Caen MacAddis
                    (needs a new keyboard because his is covered in drool)

                    julian wilson wrote:
                    Talking barn conversions, BTW, - read the following and weep, guys: - we are just re-roofing an old farmhouse complex being turned into 8 dwelling units; and I have acquired several tons of the original roof and barn-floor timbers, dating from the 17th and late 18th Centuries. All in good condition, and re-cycleable. Oak and pitchpine. Plus four oak lintols from the first late 15th Century farmhouse on the site, which became first the dower cottage, and then the herdsman's cottage as the family got richer, and susequently built  bigger & better houses alongside each-other [roughly one every century].
                    My Living History group will not only be able to have reproduction furniture and other woodwork items, they'll be able to have them made from antique timber!

                  • Helen Schultz
                    Hey, Caen, when did you join this group ... welcome!! And, Julian doesn t suck ... he just likes to gloat ... oh, hi, Julian.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 15, 2005
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                      Hey, Caen, when did you join this group <smiling broadly>... welcome!!
                       
                      And, Julian doesn't "suck"... he just likes to gloat <grin> ... oh, hi, Julian.
                       
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn, OL
                      Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana)  http://narrental.home.comcast.net
                      Middle Kingdom
                      http://meisterin.katarina.home.comcast.net
                       
                      "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -- Cicero
                       
                      "The danger in life is not that we aim too high and miss.
                      The problem is that we aim too low and hit the mark."  -- Michaelangelo
                       
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    • James Winkler
                      .. and, had I the good fortune to find what Julian found... I would, in all likelihood... do precisely the same! Wow... what a find ... Chas.
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 15, 2005
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                        ... and, had I the good fortune to find what Julian found...  I would, in all likelihood...  do precisely the same!  Wow... what a 'find'...
                        Chas.
                         
                        =================
                         

                        Hey, Caen, when did you join this group <smiling broadly>... welcome!!
                         
                        And, Julian doesn't "suck"... he just likes to gloat <grin> ... oh, hi, Julian.
                      • Bill McNutt
                        Please allow me to be the first to say, from the heart, that you suck. And I mean that in the most envious way. Master William McNaughton, CL
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 15, 2005
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                          Please allow me to be the first to say, from the heart, that “you suck.”

                           

                          And I mean that in the most envious way.

                          Master William McNaughton, CL
                          http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood

                           


                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of julian wilson
                          Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:23 PM
                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Frame shims or packers

                           

                          James Renfro <jmrenfro@...> wrote:

                          Hello all. I too am one of the lurkers of this list. I am also a Cabinet/woodworker by trade for the last five years, and a veteran of the dreaded installations and I have never heard of plastic shims. I would be interested to hear if there are any problems or troubles with them.

                           

                          Talking barn conversions, BTW, - read the following and weep, guys: - we are just re-roofing an old farmhouse complex being turned into 8 dwelling units; and I have acquired several tons of the original roof and barn-floor timbers, dating from the 17th and late 18th Centuries. All in good condition, and re-cycleable. Oak and pitchpine. Plus four oak lintols from the first late 15th Century farmhouse on the site, which became first the dower cottage, and then the herdsman's cottage as the family got richer, and susequently built  bigger & better houses alongside each-other [roughly one every century].

                          My Living History group will not only be able to have reproduction furniture and other woodwork items, they'll be able to have them made from antique timber!

                           

                          Yours in Service,
                          Julian Wilson,

                        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                          The proper curse is: May the tempered nail find a home in your planner blade. James Cunningham Who has worked with old timbers I believe that the ONLY proper
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 15, 2005
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                            The proper curse is: "May the tempered nail find a home in your planner blade."
                             
                            James Cunningham
                            Who has worked with old timbers
                            I believe that the ONLY proper response to that is: "You suck!"

                            Caen MacAddis
                            (needs a new keyboard because his is covered in drool)

                            julian wilson wrote:
                            Talking barn conversions, BTW, - read the following and weep, guys: - we are just re-roofing an old farmhouse complex being turned into 8 dwelling units; and I have acquired several tons of the original roof and barn-floor timbers, dating from the 17th and late 18th Centuries. All in good condition, and re-cycleable. Oak and pitchpine. Plus four oak lintols from the first late 15th Century farmhouse on the site, which became first the dower cottage, and then the herdsman's cottage as the family got richer, and susequently built  bigger & better houses alongside each-other [roughly one every century].
                            My Living History group will not only be able to have reproduction furniture and other woodwork items, they'll be able to have them made from antique timber!

                          • Arthur Slaughter
                            ... Having the joy of living in a hundred year old house that was not only moved to this site in the fifties, but also had a new foundation put under it in the
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 15, 2005
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                              >>
                              >Working with old houses, the walls, let alone the sills, are not square or
                              >level. I am not kiding about rebuilding the door frame. Without the sill
                              >being level both ways it is impossible to get the door to set solidly,
                              >swing
                              >correctly, and have that beautiful 3/32 inch clearance all the way round.
                              >
                              >James Cunningham
                              >
                              Having the joy of living in a hundred year old house that was not only moved
                              to this site in the fifties, but also had a new foundation put under it in
                              the seventies, I am in agreement with the whole idea of reframing doors.

                              I have one that swings right. My buddy , the former owner went cheap and now
                              I am redoing all his work.
                              THL Finn

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