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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain

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  • Chuck Phillips
    To add on to this topic, here s a few things I learned this weekend: - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened. - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 7, 2005
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      To add on to this topic, here's a few things I learned this weekend:
      - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
      - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
      - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's breadth from the edge of the blade.
      - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly wider than the thickest shaving you want to take.
       
      Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a problem if you back up the work with a stop block.  A shooting board will make this much easier.
       
      A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood in any direction.  I saw this with my own eyes, and have little doubt that I can replicate the feat. 
       
      Charles Joiner
      Caid
      -----Original Message-----
      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Craig Robert Pierpont
      Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain

      Laurence,
          Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a very fine cut.
          The grain will split when the cut runs off the edge of the board so you will have to work from both ends of your board toward the center or cut a small chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is going before planing the end grain.
          It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working across the end of the board from one side to the other.
          Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once you are below the rough stuff, you should be able to take a cut that will leave the surface almost shiny.
          The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit different from normal edge planing. If you don't have somebody to show you, you'll just have to work at till you get it. You'll get it.

      Craig Robert
      Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
      Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley

      medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
       Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
         From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@...>
      Subject: Cleaning up endgrain

      I've been working on a few projects in the past week, and run into the
      same problem on all of them.  I spend more than half of my time on a
      given project trying to clean up endgrain.  I'm trying to work only
      with tools I can document to the 15th century, which means that the
      only things I have found useful for this task are chisels and files.
      Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could make this task
      easier without using OOP methods?

      Laurence of Skraengham
      Baronial College of Tor Aerie
      Kingdom on Northshield


      Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

    • kjworz@comcast.net
      Another tip: If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line of planing, as the angle provides even more slicing action vis scraping/crushing action. Old
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 8, 2005
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        Another tip:

        If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line of planing, as the angle provides even more slicing action vis scraping/crushing action.

        Old time expensive shooting boards often had a shooting plane with a skewed angle built into the bed. If you have oodles of money and a lot of time to hunt one down you could go that route, but I doubt it is worth the effort for you. You can get good results with the everyday tools that all the tips that have been provided and a small bit of skill.

        Are skewed planes blades Period? Probably not. I have heard of no example extant. Is skewed planing technique Period? Probably. No evidence confirming either way.


        --
        -Chris Schwartz
        Silver Spring, MD


        To add on to this topic, here's a few things I learned this weekend:
        - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
        - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
        - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's breadth from the edge of the blade.
        - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly wider than the thickest shaving you want to take.

        Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a problem if you back up the work with a stop block. A shooting board will make this much easier.

        A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood in any direction. I saw this with my own eyes, and have little doubt that I can replicate the feat.

        Charles Joiner
        Caid
        -----Original Message-----
        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Craig Robert Pierpont
        Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain


        Laurence,
        Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a very fine cut.
        The grain will split when the cut runs off the edge of the board so you will have to work from both ends of your board toward the center or cut a small chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is going before planing the end grain.
        It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working across the end of the board from one side to the other.
        Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once you are below the rough stuff, you should be able to take a cut that will leave the surface almost shiny.
        The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit different from normal edge planing. If you don't have somebody to show you, you'll just have to work at till you get it. You'll get it.

        Craig Robert
        Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
        Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley

        medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
        From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@...>
        Subject: Cleaning up endgrain

        I've been working on a few projects in the past week, and run into the
        same problem on all of them. I spend more than half of my time on a
        given project trying to clean up endgrain. I'm trying to work only
        with tools I can document to the 15th century, which means that the
        only things I have found useful for this task are chisels and files.
        Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could make this task
        easier without using OOP methods?

        Laurence of Skraengham
        Baronial College of Tor Aerie
        Kingdom on Northshield
      • Chuck Phillips
        Chris; I didn t mean to imply that people should go out and hunt down one of the few remaining cast iron shooting boards. Part of the reason those things are
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 8, 2005
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          Chris;
           
          I didn't mean to imply that people should go out and hunt down one of the few remaining cast iron shooting boards.  Part of the reason those things are so rare is that most people saw no reason to buy one in the first place.  All you really need is a couple of boards.  Make one about 4 inches wide, which is wide enough to support your work.  Make a second board about as much wider as the cheek of your plane.  For most of use, that come to about 7 inches.  Both of these are 2-3 feet long.  Fasten the two boards together, stacked on their wide faces.  Add a stop block to the top piece, and Bob's your uncle.
           
          It is entirely plausible that shooting boards fall into the category of "everyday tools".  The reason that few, if any, wooden ones have survived is that they don't look like "tools", and so most were likely pitched into the wood pile along with all those transitional planes.
           
          Charles Joiner
          Caid
          -----Original Message-----
          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of kjworz@...
          Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 4:59 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com; medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain


          Another tip:

          If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line of planing, as the angle provides even more slicing action vis scraping/crushing action.

          Old time expensive shooting boards often had a shooting plane with a skewed angle built into the bed.  If you have oodles of money and a lot of time to hunt one down you could go that route, but I doubt it is worth the effort for you.  You can get good results with the everyday tools that all the tips that have been provided and a small bit of skill.

          Are skewed planes blades Period?  Probably not.  I have heard of no example extant.  Is skewed planing technique Period?  Probably.  No evidence confirming either way.


          --
          -Chris Schwartz
          Silver Spring, MD


          To add on to this topic, here's a few things I learned this weekend:
          - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
          - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
          - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's breadth from the edge of the blade.
          - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly wider than the thickest shaving you want to take.

          Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a problem if you back up the work with a stop block.  A shooting board will make this much easier.

          A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood in any direction.  I saw this with my own eyes, and have little doubt that I can replicate the feat. 

          Charles Joiner
          Caid
          -----Original Message-----
          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Craig Robert Pierpont
          Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain


          Laurence,
              Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a very fine cut.
              The grain will split when the cut runs off the edge of the board so you will have to work from both ends of your board toward the center or cut a small chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is going before planing the end grain.
              It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working across the end of the board from one side to the other.
              Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once you are below the rough stuff, you should be able to take a cut that will leave the surface almost shiny.
              The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit different from normal edge planing. If you don't have somebody to show you, you'll just have to work at till you get it. You'll get it.

          Craig Robert
          Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
          Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley

          medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
             From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@...>
          Subject: Cleaning up endgrain

          I've been working on a few projects in the past week, and run into the
          same problem on all of them.  I spend more than half of my time on a
          given project trying to clean up endgrain.  I'm trying to work only
          with tools I can document to the 15th century, which means that the
          only things I have found useful for this task are chisels and files.
          Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could make this task
          easier without using OOP methods?

          Laurence of Skraengham
          Baronial College of Tor Aerie
          Kingdom on Northshield

        • michael_recchione
          A shooting board is a necessary piece of equipment if you don t want to use sandpaper. Here s a link to plans for a ramped shooting board and also some plans
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 8, 2005
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            A shooting board is a necessary piece of equipment if you don't want
            to use sandpaper. Here's a link to plans for a ramped shooting board
            and also some plans for other types of shooting boards. Making a
            simple, non-ramped one is about an hours work or less.

            http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/rampedboard/rampindex.htm

            - Mike

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Phillips" <chuck@c...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Chris;
            >
            > I didn't mean to imply that people should go out and hunt down one
            of the
            > few remaining cast iron shooting boards. Part of the reason those
            things
            > are so rare is that most people saw no reason to buy one in the
            first place.
            > All you really need is a couple of boards. Make one about 4 inches
            wide,
            > which is wide enough to support your work. Make a second board about as
            > much wider as the cheek of your plane. For most of use, that come
            to about
            > 7 inches. Both of these are 2-3 feet long. Fasten the two boards
            together,
            > stacked on their wide faces. Add a stop block to the top piece, and
            Bob's
            > your uncle.
            >
            > It is entirely plausible that shooting boards fall into the category of
            > "everyday tools". The reason that few, if any, wooden ones have
            survived is
            > that they don't look like "tools", and so most were likely pitched
            into the
            > wood pile along with all those transitional planes.
            >
            > Charles Joiner
            > Caid
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of kjworz@c...
            > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 4:59 AM
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com; medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain
            >
            >
            >
            > Another tip:
            >
            > If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line of planing, as the
            > angle provides even more slicing action vis scraping/crushing action.
            >
            > Old time expensive shooting boards often had a shooting plane with a
            > skewed angle built into the bed. If you have oodles of money and a
            lot of
            > time to hunt one down you could go that route, but I doubt it is
            worth the
            > effort for you. You can get good results with the everyday tools
            that all
            > the tips that have been provided and a small bit of skill.
            >
            > Are skewed planes blades Period? Probably not. I have heard of no
            > example extant. Is skewed planing technique Period? Probably. No
            evidence
            > confirming either way.
            >
            >
            > --
            > -Chris Schwartz
            > Silver Spring, MD
            >
            >
            > To add on to this topic, here's a few things I learned this weekend:
            > - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
            > - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
            > - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's breadth from the
            edge of
            > the blade.
            > - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly wider than the
            thickest
            > shaving you want to take.
            >
            > Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a problem if you
            back up
            > the work with a stop block. A shooting board will make this much
            easier.
            >
            > A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood in any
            direction. I
            > saw this with my own eyes, and have little doubt that I can
            replicate the
            > feat.
            >
            > Charles Joiner
            > Caid
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Craig Robert
            Pierpont
            > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain
            >
            >
            > Laurence,
            > Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a very fine cut.
            > The grain will split when the cut runs off the edge of the
            board so
            > you will have to work from both ends of your board toward the center
            or cut
            > a small chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is going before
            planing
            > the end grain.
            > It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working across the end
            of the
            > board from one side to the other.
            > Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once you are below
            the rough
            > stuff, you should be able to take a cut that will leave the surface
            almost
            > shiny.
            > The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit different
            from normal
            > edge planing. If you don't have somebody to show you, you'll just
            have to
            > work at till you get it. You'll get it.
            >
            > Craig Robert
            > Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
            > Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley
            >
            > medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            > Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
            > From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@h...>
            > Subject: Cleaning up endgrain
            >
            > I've been working on a few projects in the past week, and run into the
            > same problem on all of them. I spend more than half of my time on a
            > given project trying to clean up endgrain. I'm trying to work only
            > with tools I can document to the 15th century, which means that the
            > only things I have found useful for this task are chisels and files.
            > Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could make this task
            > easier without using OOP methods?
            >
            > Laurence of Skraengham
            > Baronial College of Tor Aerie
            > Kingdom on Northshield
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
            > a.. Visit your group "medievalsawdust" on the web.
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            >
            >
            >
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > --
            >
          • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            What about a finishing scraper with a fresh burr? I m asking, not advising...... ... Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 8, 2005
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              What about a finishing scraper with a fresh burr?

              I'm asking, not advising......



              --- kjworz@... wrote:

              >
              > Another tip:
              >
              > If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line
              > of planing, as the angle provides even more slicing
              > action vis scraping/crushing action.
              >
              > Old time expensive shooting boards often had a
              > shooting plane with a skewed angle built into the
              > bed. If you have oodles of money and a lot of time
              > to hunt one down you could go that route, but I
              > doubt it is worth the effort for you. You can get
              > good results with the everyday tools that all the
              > tips that have been provided and a small bit of
              > skill.
              >
              > Are skewed planes blades Period? Probably not. I
              > have heard of no example extant. Is skewed planing
              > technique Period? Probably. No evidence confirming
              > either way.
              >
              >
              > --
              > -Chris Schwartz
              > Silver Spring, MD
              >
              >
              > To add on to this topic, here's a few things I
              > learned this weekend:
              > - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
              > - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
              > - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's
              > breadth from the edge of the blade.
              > - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly
              > wider than the thickest shaving you want to take.
              >
              > Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a
              > problem if you back up the work with a stop block.
              > A shooting board will make this much easier.
              >
              > A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood
              > in any direction. I saw this with my own eyes, and
              > have little doubt that I can replicate the feat.
              >
              > Charles Joiner
              > Caid
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
              > Craig Robert Pierpont
              > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
              > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain
              >
              >
              > Laurence,
              > Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a
              > very fine cut.
              > The grain will split when the cut runs off the
              > edge of the board so you will have to work from both
              > ends of your board toward the center or cut a small
              > chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is
              > going before planing the end grain.
              > It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working
              > across the end of the board from one side to the
              > other.
              > Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once
              > you are below the rough stuff, you should be able to
              > take a cut that will leave the surface almost shiny.
              > The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit
              > different from normal edge planing. If you don't
              > have somebody to show you, you'll just have to work
              > at till you get it. You'll get it.
              >
              > Craig Robert
              > Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
              > Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley
              >
              > medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
              > Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
              > From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@...>
              > Subject: Cleaning up endgrain
              >
              > I've been working on a few projects in the past
              > week, and run into the
              > same problem on all of them. I spend more than half
              > of my time on a
              > given project trying to clean up endgrain. I'm
              > trying to work only
              > with tools I can document to the 15th century, which
              > means that the
              > only things I have found useful for this task are
              > chisels and files.
              > Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could
              > make this task
              > easier without using OOP methods?
              >
              > Laurence of Skraengham
              > Baronial College of Tor Aerie
              > Kingdom on Northshield
              >
              >


              Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

              Aude Aliquid Dignum
              ' Dare Something Worthy '



              __________________________________
              Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
              http://farechase.yahoo.com
            • Dragano Abbruciati
              OH, I like that. It also places the blade at an angle for an easier shave. Thanks for sharing. Dragano michael_recchione wrote:
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 9, 2005
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                OH, I like that.  It also places the blade at an angle for an easier shave.  Thanks for sharing.
                 
                Dragano

                michael_recchione <michael_recchione@...> wrote:
                A shooting board is a necessary piece of equipment if you don't want
                to use sandpaper.  Here's a link to plans for a ramped shooting board
                and also some plans for other types of shooting boards.  Making a
                simple, non-ramped one is about an hours work or less.

                http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/rampedboard/rampindex.htm

                - Mike

                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Phillips" <chuck@c...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Chris;
                >
                > I didn't mean to imply that people should go out and hunt down one
                of the
                > few remaining cast iron shooting boards.  Part of the reason those
                things
                > are so rare is that most people saw no reason to buy one in the
                first place.
                > All you really need is a couple of boards.  Make one about 4 inches
                wide,
                > which is wide enough to support your work.  Make a second board about as
                > much wider as the cheek of your plane.  For most of use, that come
                to about
                > 7 inches.  Both of these are 2-3 feet long.  Fasten the two boards
                together,
                > stacked on their wide faces.  Add a stop block to the top piece, and
                Bob's
                > your uncle.
                >
                > It is entirely plausible that shooting boards fall into the category of
                > "everyday tools".  The reason that few, if any, wooden ones have
                survived is
                > that they don't look like "tools", and so most were likely pitched
                into the
                > wood pile along with all those transitional planes.
                >
                > Charles Joiner
                > Caid
                >   -----Original Message-----
                >   From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of kjworz@c...
                >   Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 4:59 AM
                >   To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com; medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                >   Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain
                >
                >
                >
                >   Another tip:
                >
                >   If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line of planing, as the
                > angle provides even more slicing action vis scraping/crushing action.
                >
                >   Old time expensive shooting boards often had a shooting plane with a
                > skewed angle built into the bed.  If you have oodles of money and a
                lot of
                > time to hunt one down you could go that route, but I doubt it is
                worth the
                > effort for you.  You can get good results with the everyday tools
                that all
                > the tips that have been provided and a small bit of skill.
                >
                >   Are skewed planes blades Period?  Probably not.  I have heard of no
                > example extant.  Is skewed planing technique Period?  Probably.  No
                evidence
                > confirming either way.
                >
                >
                >   --
                >   -Chris Schwartz
                >   Silver Spring, MD
                >
                >
                >   To add on to this topic, here's a few things I learned this weekend:
                >   - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
                >   - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
                >   - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's breadth from the
                edge of
                > the blade.
                >   - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly wider than the
                thickest
                > shaving you want to take.
                >
                >   Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a problem if you
                back up
                > the work with a stop block.  A shooting board will make this much
                easier.
                >
                >   A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood in any
                direction.  I
                > saw this with my own eyes, and have little doubt that I can
                replicate the
                > feat.
                >
                >   Charles Joiner
                >   Caid
                >   -----Original Message-----
                >   From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Craig Robert
                Pierpont
                >   Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
                >   To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                >   Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain
                >
                >
                >   Laurence,
                >       Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a very fine cut.
                >       The grain will split when the cut runs off the edge of the
                board so
                > you will have to work from both ends of your board toward the center
                or cut
                > a small chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is going before
                planing
                > the end grain.
                >       It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working across the end
                of the
                > board from one side to the other.
                >       Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once you are below
                the rough
                > stuff, you should be able to take a cut that will leave the surface
                almost
                > shiny.
                >       The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit different
                from normal
                > edge planing. If you don't have somebody to show you, you'll just
                have to
                > work at till you get it. You'll get it.
                >
                >   Craig Robert
                >   Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
                >   Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley
                >
                >   medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                >   Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
                >      From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@h...>
                >   Subject: Cleaning up endgrain
                >
                >   I've been working on a few projects in the past week, and run into the
                >   same problem on all of them.  I spend more than half of my time on a
                >   given project trying to clean up endgrain.  I'm trying to work only
                >   with tools I can document to the 15th century, which means that the
                >   only things I have found useful for this task are chisels and files.
                >   Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could make this task
                >   easier without using OOP methods?
                >
                >   Laurence of Skraengham
                >   Baronial College of Tor Aerie
                >   Kingdom on Northshield
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • Chuck Phillips
                There are two issues with using a scraper. First, the edge is completely unconstrained, so that unless you have godlike skill you will not get the work truly
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 9, 2005
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                  There are two issues with using a scraper.  First, the edge is completely unconstrained, so that unless you have godlike skill you will not get the work truly flat.  Secondly, a scraper doesn't leave as clean a surface as a plane.  Better than sanding, but still not as nice as a plane.
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:06 PM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain

                  What about a finishing scraper with a fresh burr?

                  I'm asking, not advising......



                  --- kjworz@... wrote:

                  >
                  > Another tip:
                  >
                  > If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line
                  > of planing, as the angle provides even more slicing
                  > action vis scraping/crushing action.
                  >
                  > Old time expensive shooting boards often had a
                  > shooting plane with a skewed angle built into the
                  > bed.  If you have oodles of money and a lot of time
                  > to hunt one down you could go that route, but I
                  > doubt it is worth the effort for you.  You can get
                  > good results with the everyday tools that all the
                  > tips that have been provided and a small bit of
                  > skill.
                  >
                  > Are skewed planes blades Period?  Probably not.  I
                  > have heard of no example extant.  Is skewed planing
                  > technique Period?  Probably.  No evidence confirming
                  > either way.
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > -Chris Schwartz
                  > Silver Spring, MD
                  >
                  >
                  > To add on to this topic, here's a few things I
                  > learned this weekend:
                  > - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
                  > - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
                  > - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's
                  > breadth from the edge of the blade.
                  > - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly
                  > wider than the thickest shaving you want to take.

                  > Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a
                  > problem if you back up the work with a stop block.
                  > A shooting board will make this much easier.

                  > A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood
                  > in any direction.  I saw this with my own eyes, and
                  > have little doubt that I can replicate the feat. 

                  > Charles Joiner
                  > Caid
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                  > Craig Robert Pierpont
                  > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
                  > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain
                  >
                  >
                  > Laurence,
                  >     Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a
                  > very fine cut.
                  >     The grain will split when the cut runs off the
                  > edge of the board so you will have to work from both
                  > ends of your board toward the center or cut a small
                  > chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is
                  > going before planing the end grain.
                  >     It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working
                  > across the end of the board from one side to the
                  > other.
                  >     Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once
                  > you are below the rough stuff, you should be able to
                  > take a cut that will leave the surface almost shiny.
                  >     The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit
                  > different from normal edge planing. If you don't
                  > have somebody to show you, you'll just have to work
                  > at till you get it. You'll get it.
                  >
                  > Craig Robert
                  > Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
                  > Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley
                  >
                  > medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                  >  Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
                  >    From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@...>
                  > Subject: Cleaning up endgrain
                  >
                  > I've been working on a few projects in the past
                  > week, and run into the
                  > same problem on all of them.  I spend more than half
                  > of my time on a
                  > given project trying to clean up endgrain.  I'm
                  > trying to work only
                  > with tools I can document to the 15th century, which
                  > means that the
                  > only things I have found useful for this task are
                  > chisels and files.
                  > Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could
                  > make this task
                  > easier without using OOP methods?
                  >
                  > Laurence of Skraengham
                  > Baronial College of Tor Aerie
                  > Kingdom on Northshield
                  >
                  >


                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                     Aude Aliquid Dignum
                       ' Dare Something Worthy '


                             
                  __________________________________
                  Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                  http://farechase.yahoo.com
                • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                  The other side er..edge is that a scaper will cut knots and curly grain better than a plane. There is such a thing as a scraper plane and a Stanley #70 I
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 9, 2005
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                    The other side er..edge is that  a scaper will cut knots and curly grain better than a plane.  There is such a thing as a scraper plane and a Stanley #70 I think.. scraper thing that looks a lot like a spoke shave only with a big flat face.
                     
                    James Cunningham

                    There are two issues with using a scraper.  First, the edge is completely unconstrained, so that unless you have godlike skill you will not get the work truly flat.  Secondly, a scraper doesn't leave as clean a surface as a plane.  Better than sanding, but still not as nice as a plane.
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:06 PM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain

                    What about a finishing scraper with a fresh burr?

                    I'm asking, not advising......



                    --- kjworz@... wrote:

                    >
                    > Another tip:
                    >
                    > If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line
                    > of planing, as the angle provides even more slicing
                    > action vis scraping/crushing action.
                    >
                    > Old time expensive shooting boards often had a
                    > shooting plane with a skewed angle built into the
                    > bed.  If you have oodles of money and a lot of time
                    > to hunt one down you could go that route, but I
                    > doubt it is worth the effort for you.  You can get
                    > good results with the everyday tools that all the
                    > tips that have been provided and a small bit of
                    > skill.
                    >
                    > Are skewed planes blades Period?  Probably not.  I
                    > have heard of no example extant.  Is skewed planing
                    > technique Period?  Probably.  No evidence confirming
                    > either way.
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > -Chris Schwartz
                    > Silver Spring, MD
                    >
                    >
                    > To add on to this topic, here's a few things I
                    > learned this weekend:
                    > - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
                    > - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
                    > - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's
                    > breadth from the edge of the blade.
                    > - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly
                    > wider than the thickest shaving you want to take.

                    > Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a
                    > problem if you back up the work with a stop block.
                    > A shooting board will make this much easier.

                    > A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood
                    > in any direction.  I saw this with my own eyes, and
                    > have little doubt that I can replicate the feat. 

                    > Charles Joiner
                    > Caid
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                    > Craig Robert Pierpont
                    > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
                    > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain
                    >
                    >
                    > Laurence,
                    >     Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a
                    > very fine cut.
                    >     The grain will split when the cut runs off the
                    > edge of the board so you will have to work from both
                    > ends of your board toward the center or cut a small
                    > chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is
                    > going before planing the end grain.
                    >     It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working
                    > across the end of the board from one side to the
                    > other.
                    >     Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once
                    > you are below the rough stuff, you should be able to
                    > take a cut that will leave the surface almost shiny.
                    >     The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit
                    > different from normal edge planing. If you don't
                    > have somebody to show you, you'll just have to work
                    > at till you get it. You'll get it.
                    >
                    > Craig Robert
                    > Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
                    > Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley
                    >
                    > medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                    >  Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
                    >    From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@...>
                    > Subject: Cleaning up endgrain
                    >
                    > I've been working on a few projects in the past
                    > week, and run into the
                    > same problem on all of them.  I spend more than half
                    > of my time on a
                    > given project trying to clean up endgrain.  I'm
                    > trying to work only
                    > with tools I can document to the 15th century, which
                    > means that the
                    > only things I have found useful for this task are
                    > chisels and files.
                    > Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could
                    > make this task
                    > easier without using OOP methods?
                    >
                    > Laurence of Skraengham
                    > Baronial College of Tor Aerie
                    > Kingdom on Northshield
                    >
                    >


                    Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                       Aude Aliquid Dignum
                         ' Dare Something Worthy '


                               
                    __________________________________
                    Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                    http://farechase.yahoo.com
                  • Chuck Phillips
                    I think the tool you re describing is the Stanley #12. The #70 is more like a scraper on a stick. Charles Joiner Caid ... From:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 9, 2005
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                      I think the tool you're describing is the Stanley #12.  The #70 is more like a scraper on a stick.
                       
                      Charles Joiner
                      Caid
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of James W. Pratt, Jr.
                      Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 5:52 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain

                      The other side er..edge is that  a scaper will cut knots and curly grain better than a plane.  There is such a thing as a scraper plane and a Stanley #70 I think.. scraper thing that looks a lot like a spoke shave only with a big flat face.
                       
                      James Cunningham

                      There are two issues with using a scraper.  First, the edge is completely unconstrained, so that unless you have godlike skill you will not get the work truly flat.  Secondly, a scraper doesn't leave as clean a surface as a plane.  Better than sanding, but still not as nice as a plane.
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                      Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:06 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain

                      What about a finishing scraper with a fresh burr?

                      I'm asking, not advising......



                      --- kjworz@... wrote:

                      >
                      > Another tip:
                      >
                      > If you can, skew the blade at an angle to the line
                      > of planing, as the angle provides even more slicing
                      > action vis scraping/crushing action.
                      >
                      > Old time expensive shooting boards often had a
                      > shooting plane with a skewed angle built into the
                      > bed.  If you have oodles of money and a lot of time
                      > to hunt one down you could go that route, but I
                      > doubt it is worth the effort for you.  You can get
                      > good results with the everyday tools that all the
                      > tips that have been provided and a small bit of
                      > skill.
                      >
                      > Are skewed planes blades Period?  Probably not.  I
                      > have heard of no example extant.  Is skewed planing
                      > technique Period?  Probably.  No evidence confirming
                      > either way.
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > -Chris Schwartz
                      > Silver Spring, MD
                      >
                      >
                      > To add on to this topic, here's a few things I
                      > learned this weekend:
                      > - Make sure your plane sole is well flattened.
                      > - Sharpen to blade until it splits photons.
                      > - Set the cap iron (Provided it has one) a hair's
                      > breadth from the edge of the blade.
                      > - Close down the mouth so that it is only slightly
                      > wider than the thickest shaving you want to take.

                      > Breakout on the far end of the stroke will not be a
                      > problem if you back up the work with a stop block.
                      > A shooting board will make this much easier.

                      > A well tuned plane can take a shaving from any wood
                      > in any direction.  I saw this with my own eyes, and
                      > have little doubt that I can replicate the feat. 

                      > Charles Joiner
                      > Caid
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                      > Craig Robert Pierpont
                      > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:21 AM
                      > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Cleaning up endgrain
                      >
                      >
                      > Laurence,
                      >     Use a sharp low angled block plans set to take a
                      > very fine cut.
                      >     The grain will split when the cut runs off the
                      > edge of the board so you will have to work from both
                      > ends of your board toward the center or cut a small
                      > chamfer on the corner toward which the plane is
                      > going before planing the end grain.
                      >     It may be helpful to make narrow cuts working
                      > across the end of the board from one side to the
                      > other.
                      >     Your first cuts will be hit and miss but once
                      > you are below the rough stuff, you should be able to
                      > take a cut that will leave the surface almost shiny.
                      >     The way you handle the plane will be quite a bit
                      > different from normal edge planing. If you don't
                      > have somebody to show you, you'll just have to work
                      > at till you get it. You'll get it.
                      >
                      > Craig Robert
                      > Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
                      > Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley
                      >
                      > medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                      >  Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:11:37 -0000
                      >    From: "lawrence_djd" <teffendar@...>
                      > Subject: Cleaning up endgrain
                      >
                      > I've been working on a few projects in the past
                      > week, and run into the
                      > same problem on all of them.  I spend more than half
                      > of my time on a
                      > given project trying to clean up endgrain.  I'm
                      > trying to work only
                      > with tools I can document to the 15th century, which
                      > means that the
                      > only things I have found useful for this task are
                      > chisels and files.
                      > Does anyone have any suggestions as to ways I could
                      > make this task
                      > easier without using OOP methods?
                      >
                      > Laurence of Skraengham
                      > Baronial College of Tor Aerie
                      > Kingdom on Northshield
                      >
                      >


                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                         Aude Aliquid Dignum
                           ' Dare Something Worthy '


                                 
                      __________________________________
                      Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                      http://farechase.yahoo.com
                    • michael_recchione
                      Scrapers don t work particularly well on endgrain, and have issues with softer woods in general. In more recent times, bevel-up low angle planes have been
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 10, 2005
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                        Scrapers don't work particularly well on endgrain, and have issues with
                        softer woods in general. In more recent times, bevel-up low angle
                        planes have been touted as the thing to use on end-grain, and they
                        certainly work well (e.g. a Stanley 65 or 61 1/2 or any of a number of
                        the new offerings from Lee Valley). But they're almost equally
                        certainly not period in the sense that bedding and supporting an iron
                        at a very low angle is very difficult to do with a wooden plane body
                        and the resulting plane is extremely fragile. The good news is, as
                        someone else pointed out, any plane with a sharp iron and set for a
                        fine cut handles end-grain just fine. Again, as was pointed out,
                        skewing the plane as you approach the wood lowers the effective cutting
                        angle and was almost certainly a period technique (it would be hard to
                        imagine that it wasn't - it just amounts to holding the plane at a
                        different angle with your hands as you push it).

                        So, if you're determined to do this in a period way, use a wooden
                        bodied smoother set for a fine cut (size of mouth opening is irrelevant
                        for endgrain), and skew it relative to the work. To prevent break out,
                        either use a backing block, a chamfer or work towards the middle from
                        either side.

                        - Mike
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