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painting medieval jewelry box

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  • Stephanie S Smith, Ph.D.
    I am building a 15th century jewelry box from Ireland. It would have English influence, since they occupied Ireland then. The wood is Poplar. Would dovetails
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 28, 2005
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      I am building a 15th century jewelry box from Ireland.  It would have English influence, since they occupied Ireland then.  The wood is Poplar.  Would dovetails be used then?  Or should I use box end joints (just glue and brad the two pieces together).  I have bone black for pigment but don't know which type of base (egg whites or yolks) would be best for the wood.  I understand white lead paint was often used as a primer.  I am not willing to play with lead, but will make an effort to get as close to period paint for the area as possible.  To me, that is part of the fun.  Thank you for any help you can offer.
       
      Stephanie Lilburn
      aka Stephanie Smith, Ph.D.
      lambdakennels1@...
      Wolfe City, Texas 75496
      K5AMK
      Owned by a Standard Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
    • muck
      If anyone has any sources of documentation for medieval apple presses, I d great appreciate your help. Thank you, Phillip the Skeptic
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 28, 2005
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        If anyone has any sources of documentation for medieval apple presses, I'd
        great appreciate your help.

        Thank you,
        Phillip the Skeptic
      • Chuck Phillips
        Stephaine; There was a message thread back at the beginning of the month regarding dovetails. Based on what people have found, dovetails are certainly
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 28, 2005
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          Stephaine;
           
          There was a message thread back at the beginning of the month regarding dovetails.  Based on what people have found, dovetails are certainly appropriate.  However, if you feel your joinery skills are not up to the task, (Try things on a practice bit first.  They're easier than you might think.) the butt joints will work.  You might also consider using a rabbet joint (rebate if you're English...).  This will hide much of the end grain that a butt joint leaves exposed. 
           
          <digression>
          A lot of joints go to great effort to hide as much end grain as possible, even to the extent of sacrificing strength.  The most extreme case of this would be a plain miter, where the entire glue surface is end grain to end grain.  If you feel really adventurous, take a look at blind dovetails.  All the work, and nobody but you will ever know...
          </digression>
           
          With respect to the binder for your pigment, it all depends on the desired effect.  Both glair (egg white) of tempera (egg yolk) will work.  The tempera will be a glossier finish.  Neither is waterproof, so a topcoat will be needed if you expect things to get damp.  A decent reference for paints and methods is Cennini (Il Libro dell' Arte, translation available through Dover, ISBN 0-486-20054-X) as long as you remember that he's a postperiod Italian.  I suspect that the things e talks about hadn't changed much in the previous 3-400 years.  You might also want to consult with your friendly local illuminator, as the techniques and materials cross over quite well.
           
          Above all else, have fun with this.  If you're not having fun, reconsider your choice of hobbies....
          Charles Joiner
          Caid
          -----Original Message-----
          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Stephanie S Smith, Ph.D.
          Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:27 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] painting medieval jewelry box

           
          I am building a 15th century jewelry box from Ireland.  It would have English influence, since they occupied Ireland then.  The wood is Poplar.  Would dovetails be used then?  Or should I use box end joints (just glue and brad the two pieces together).  I have bone black for pigment but don't know which type of base (egg whites or yolks) would be best for the wood.  I understand white lead paint was often used as a primer.  I am not willing to play with lead, but will make an effort to get as close to period paint for the area as possible.  To me, that is part of the fun.  Thank you for any help you can offer.
           
          Stephanie Lilburn
          aka Stephanie Smith, Ph.D.
          lambdakennels1@...
          Wolfe City, Texas 75496
          K5AMK
          Owned by a Standard Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog


          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


        • vernon harra
          the only press ive ever seen in pictures of the time were long poled configuration for pressing.im not sure for apples but you could tell it was something
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 4, 2005
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            the only press ive ever seen in  pictures of the time were long poled configuration for pressing.im not sure for apples but you could tell it was something they were saving the juice of,because a container was under the press

            muck <muck@...> wrote:
            If anyone has any sources of documentation for medieval apple presses, I'd
            great appreciate your help.

            Thank you,
            Phillip the Skeptic



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          • Tim Bray
            The History and Virtues of Cyder by R. K. French has a pretty good discussion of the history and development of cider presses, and the equally important
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 5, 2005
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              "The History and Virtues of Cyder" by R. K. French has a pretty good discussion of the history and development of cider presses, and the equally important mills.

              Cheers,
              Colin


              Albion Works
              Furniture and Accessories
              For the Medievalist!
            • julian wilson
              Tim Bray wrote: The History and Virtues of Cyder by R. K. French has a pretty good discussion of the history and development of cider
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 5, 2005
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                Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
                "The History and Virtues of Cyder" by R. K. French has a pretty good discussion of the history and development of cider presses, and the equally important mills.
                COMMENT
                Good Gentles all,
                In the 19th Century, the island of "olde" jersey used to produce thousands of gallons of cider every year, and a number of the granite crushing troughs are still extant in front gardens, converted into ponds and flower beds.
                However the Museum of ancient Jersey Farming Life at the 17th C. preserved Farm of "Hamptonne", operated as a living Museum  by the Jersey Heritage Trust [the "JHT"] - has preserved a working granite crushing-trough intact, and also a working wooden cider press.
                The farm also has a "Historic Orchard" preserving the ancient varieties of apple-trees which were used to create the local cider.  And at the end of every Season, the apple crop is harvested from the orchard, and the Farm runs a "cider-making weekend", open to the Public.  So if anyone wants pictures of the equipment, I have a number already in my photo files from previous years' "Cider Making Weekends".
                Following immediately upon that weekend, "The National Trust For Jersey" - in co-operation with the JHT - then runs a weekend Event at it's own HQ - [another preserved 18th C. Jersey Farm complex] - demonstrating the making of "black butter" -  from the apple-pulp remaining after the cider-making..- in the traditional fashion of these Islands.
                 
                Yours in Service,
                Julian Wilson,
                in "olde" Jersey.


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              • Tim Bray
                Philip was asking about Medieval presses... The circular wheel-in-trough type of crusher does go back to Antiquity. The Greeks developed a similar system for
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 5, 2005
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                  Philip was asking about Medieval presses... 

                  The circular wheel-in-trough type of crusher does go back to Antiquity.  The Greeks developed a similar system for crushing olives to obtain oil, and the Romans of course turned it into a major industry.  French shows how this method was adapted for apples, and suggests that it came to Northern Europe through Spain, where apple culture flourished in the early Middle Ages.  This may have happened as early as the 11th century in France.  The Normans gained an appreciation for cider, and by the 13th century cider-making was an important industry in parts of England.

                  The machinery and processes for cider making were borrowed from those for oil and wine production.  Apples give up their juice less readily than grapes, requiring more crushing and more squeezing.  In order to make cider efficiently in large quantities, heavy and expensive equipment was needed.  (You can't just get peasants to stomp apples in a tub!)   This in turn requires a certain kind of economic and social situation, absent from most of Europe until about the 11th -12th century. 

                  French doesn't show any medieval examples of cider presses, but by analogy to wine presses, we can infer that they were most likely lever-presses.  Roman examples applied pressure through the lever by means of weights, screws, capstans, or block-and-tackle.  All of these would have been available to the 13th c. builders as well.  The Roman lever-and-screw presses are pretty nearly identical to the 18th century examples scattered all over the wine-producing regions of France.

                  Cheers,
                  Colin


                  Albion Works
                  Furniture and Accessories
                  For the Medievalist!
                • Terafan Greydragon
                  Greetings all from Terafan, Julian mentioned that the island of Jersey has a 17th century farm. Since I was in Jersey over Memorial Day weekend and went to
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 6, 2005
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                    Greetings all from Terafan,
                     
                        Julian mentioned that the island of Jersey has a 17th century farm.    Since I was in Jersey over Memorial Day weekend and went to Hamptonne, I have done a quick job of putting up a few of the pictures I took at Hamptonne, especially the cider press.
                     
                     
                    respectfully,
                        Terafan

                    Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon     terafan@...
                    Brewer, tent and furniture maker, and other things I can't remember...
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of julian wilson
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 4:31 PM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Apple Presses

                    However the Museum of ancient Jersey Farming Life at the 17th C. preserved Farm of "Hamptonne", operated as a living Museum  by the Jersey Heritage Trust [the "JHT"] - has preserved a working granite crushing-trough intact, and also a working wooden cider press.
                     
                    <snip>
                     
                    Yours in Service,
                    Julian Wilson,
                    in "olde" Jersey.


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