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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

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  • Lord Robin Gallowglass
    ... I think so, as does the customer. When I asked him if glued up lamited posts were acceptable to him, his reply was as long as the glue is waterproof,
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
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      On Monday 06 June 2005 15:37, Logan wrote:
      > polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are doing. a high

      I think so, as does the customer. When I asked him if glued up lamited posts
      were acceptable to him, his reply was "as long as the glue is waterproof,
      it's ok" :)

      > quality carpenters glue will hold just fine. several clamps will work as
      > well and start from the center and attach your clamps alternatively to the
      > ends. of course clamping on scrap pieces placed on top of your good
      > pieces. 8)

      So put a clamp in the middle, and then start working in from the ends?

      >
      > with mine (see previous email) i screwed the first piece to the 2 x4 then
      > shot a few finish nails into the last piece after i clamped it. nothing
      > was visible from the outside of the bed since i blind attached all of the
      > laminated pieces to it.
      >
      > best regards
      > logan

      Robin
    • Logan
      a high end carpenters glue will hold fine unless he plans on his bed sitting in 14 of standing water for a few days. then, it just might get a wee bit soft.
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
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        a high end carpenters glue will hold fine unless he plans on his bed sitting in 14" of standing water for a few days.  then, it just might get a wee bit soft.  i made some cheap pine benches 8 years ago that were retired to the area around my fighter practice some 4 years ago.  they are still going strong and were only glued together with elmers wood glue.  4 years of sitting outside and the glue has held up fine.
         
        personally i like loctite brand outdoor wood worx.  the stuff is crazy strong and spreads nice and thin.  it flows better than any other glue ive used and the price is not too steep.
         
        and no, what i mean is clamp like this:
         
         
        7 5 3 1 2 4 6
         

        www.ebonwoulfe.com

        Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.


         

         


        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Robin Gallowglass
        Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 3:44 PM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

        On Monday 06 June 2005 15:37, Logan wrote:
        > polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are doing.  a high

        I think so, as does the customer.  When I asked him if glued up lamited posts
        were acceptable to him, his reply was "as long as the glue is waterproof,
        it's ok" :)

        > quality carpenters glue will hold just fine.  several clamps will work as
        > well and start from the center and attach your clamps alternatively to the
        > ends.  of course clamping on scrap pieces placed on top of your good
        > pieces. 8)

        So put a clamp in the middle, and then start working in from the ends?

        >
        > with mine (see previous email) i screwed the first piece to the 2 x4 then
        > shot a few finish nails into the last piece after i clamped it.  nothing
        > was visible from the outside of the bed since i blind attached all of the
        > laminated pieces to it.
        >
        > best regards
        > logan

        Robin


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             http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


      • Lord Robin Gallowglass
        ... Remember, the customer is always right. He s paying me to make the bed. If he wants 100% waterproof gorillaglue, then he gets gorillaglue :) ... I ll
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
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          On Monday 06 June 2005 15:49, Logan wrote:
          > a high end carpenters glue will hold fine unless he plans on his bed
          > sitting in 14" of standing water for a few days. then, it just might get a

          Remember, the customer is always right. He's paying me to make the bed. If
          he wants 100% waterproof gorillaglue, then he gets gorillaglue :)

          > wee bit soft. i made some cheap pine benches 8 years ago that were retired
          > to the area around my fighter practice some 4 years ago. they are still
          > going strong and were only glued together with elmers wood glue. 4 years
          > of sitting outside and the glue has held up fine.
          >
          > personally i like loctite brand outdoor wood worx. the stuff is crazy
          > strong and spreads nice and thin. it flows better than any other glue ive
          > used and the price is not too steep.

          I'll take a look at it.

          >
          > and no, what i mean is clamp like this:
          >
          >
          > 7 5 3 1 2 4 6
          >

          Gotcha!

          >
          > www.ebonwoulfe.com
          >
          > Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still
          > can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

          Robin
        • Siegfried
          ... Just use Titebond II, or your other favorite equivilant of waterproof carpenter s glue. The expense of Gorilla Glue just isn t needed for this project. Or
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
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            > > polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are doing. a high
            >
            > I think so, as does the customer. When I asked him if glued up lamited posts
            > were acceptable to him, his reply was "as long as the glue is waterproof,
            > it's ok" :)

            Just use Titebond II, or your other favorite equivilant of waterproof
            carpenter's glue.

            The expense of Gorilla Glue just isn't needed for this project.

            Or at least, if you really do wanna use it, buy a cheaper polyurathane
            than Gorilla. :)

            Siegfried


            --
            ___________________________________________________________________________
            THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
            Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
            Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
            http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
          • Logan
            yep titebond is great stuff too and i forgot its waterproof. come to think of it now it lives behind my gallon of wood worx and thats why i didnt remember it
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
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              yep titebond is great stuff too and i forgot its waterproof.  come to think of it now it lives behind my gallon of wood worx and thats why i didnt remember it earlier. 
               
              and yes, if your guy insists on polyurethane glue buy one of the non famous brands.  same stuff less cost.  8)
               

              www.ebonwoulfe.com

              Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.


               

               


              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried
              Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 3:59 PM
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

              > > polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are
              doing.  a high
              >
              > I think so, as does the customer. 
              When I asked him if glued up lamited posts
              > were acceptable to him, his
              reply was "as long as the glue is waterproof,
              > it's ok" :)

              Just use Titebond II, or your other favorite equivilant of waterproof
              carpenter's glue.

              The expense of Gorilla Glue just isn't needed for this project.

              Or at least, if you really do wanna use it, buy a cheaper polyurathane
              than Gorilla. :)

              Siegfried


              --
              ___________________________________________________________________________
              THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust                         http://crossbows.biz/
              Barony of Highland Foorde           Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
              Kingdom of Atlantia          Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
              http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/   http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/


              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


            • Sean Powell
              You could always take a page from the Frank Lloyd Wright school of laminating: cut 4 board and bevel the sides at 45 degrees. Glue into a box around a solid
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
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                You could always take a page from the Frank Lloyd Wright school of laminating: cut 4 board and bevel the sides at 45 degrees. Glue into a box around a solid square core. The result leaves the "seams" of the lamination on the edge where they aren't visible and creates a large solid block that is less prone to splitting when drying etc. I don't think this will leave voids quite where you want them but the overall structure is VERY strong.
                 
                Sean (who usually just lurks)
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bill McNutt
                Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 1:56 PM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

                Properly laminated, yes.  You will probably prefer to paint, rather than
                stain or just seal the finished product.  That's why I hate laminating. I
                can never get the finish I want.

                Master Will
                http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood


                -----Original Message-----
                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Robin Gallowglass
                Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:40 PM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

                The normal wood geek buddy that I run things by isn't available today, so
                I'll
                ask you all my question :)

                The first time I made my slat bed, I had some 12/4 poplar milled to 2 3/4" x
                2
                3/4" for the corner posts.  Now that I go to make another one, I'm not as
                close to a mill as I used to be, and it's now an 1.5 drive one way to it.

                As a time saving measure, I was considering purchasing the poplar from my
                local large hardware chain that has decent quality boards, with very little
                warping, cupping or corkscrewing.

                However, they don't have anything big enough for the corner posts, so I
                would
                have to glue/laminate boards together for the corner posts.  One advantage
                of
                doing the corner posts this way, is I could leave voids for some of the
                mortises.

                So, here's my question -- will 2 1/4" x 2 1/4" (three 3/4" boards laminated)

                be strong enough for the corner posts of a queen size slat bed?

                By my rough estimates, buying the stock at the local large hardware chain
                will
                only be about $14 more than going to the mill, and I save 3 hours driving
                and
                crap load of rip cuts that would be a pain to do in my small little shop :)

                Thanks in advance,

                Robin



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              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a modern bed. Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through mortises and
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
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                  In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a modern bed.
                  Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through mortises
                  and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be my choice
                  for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that have
                  survived are mostly oak.

                  James Cunningham

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Lord Robin Gallowglass" <robin@...>
                  To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 1:40 PM
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength


                  > The normal wood geek buddy that I run things by isn't available today, so
                  I'll
                  > ask you all my question :)
                  >
                  > The first time I made my slat bed, I had some 12/4 poplar milled to 2 3/4"
                  x 2
                  > 3/4" for the corner posts. Now that I go to make another one, I'm not as
                  > close to a mill as I used to be, and it's now an 1.5 drive one way to it.
                  >
                  > As a time saving measure, I was considering purchasing the poplar from my
                  > local large hardware chain that has decent quality boards, with very
                  little
                  > warping, cupping or corkscrewing.
                  >
                  > However, they don't have anything big enough for the corner posts, so I
                  would
                  > have to glue/laminate boards together for the corner posts. One advantage
                  of
                  > doing the corner posts this way, is I could leave voids for some of the
                  > mortises.
                  >
                  > So, here's my question -- will 2 1/4" x 2 1/4" (three 3/4" boards
                  laminated)
                  > be strong enough for the corner posts of a queen size slat bed?
                  >
                  > By my rough estimates, buying the stock at the local large hardware chain
                  will
                  > only be about $14 more than going to the mill, and I save 3 hours driving
                  and
                  > crap load of rip cuts that would be a pain to do in my small little shop
                  :)
                  >
                  > Thanks in advance,
                  >
                  > Robin
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Lord Robin Gallowglass
                  ... Really? The first one I made was out of poplar, and I used a solid piece of 2.75 x 2.75 poplar for the cornor posts that have two through mortises in
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                    On Monday 06 June 2005 23:37, James W. Pratt, Jr. wrote:
                    > In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a modern bed.
                    > Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through mortises
                    > and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be my

                    Really? The first one I made was out of poplar, and I used a solid piece of
                    2.75" x 2.75" poplar for the cornor posts that have two through mortises in
                    both directions. It's been to two pennsic's so far without any problems at
                    all.

                    > choice for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that
                    > have survived are mostly oak.
                    >
                    > James Cunningham
                    >

                    Robin
                  • Tim Bray
                    Robin, Laminated poplar posts should hold up just fine. Poplar isn t as strong or as rot-resistant as oak, but I doubt you intend this bed to last for 500
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                      Robin,

                      Laminated poplar posts should hold up just fine.  Poplar isn't as strong or as rot-resistant as oak, but I doubt you intend this bed to last for 500 years, so...

                      Properly done, laminated posts can be stronger than solid-wood; less prone to splitting.

                      As I said earlier, the glue surface area will be so great that glue strength simply isn't an issue - you could even use Franklin Poly glue without worry  ;-)

                      The important thing is to make sure the faces being glued mate up perfectly.  A jointer is the easiest way to do this. 

                      Cheers,
                      Colin

                       

                      Albion Works
                      Furniture and Accessories
                      For the Medievalist!
                    • Lord Robin Gallowglass
                      ... Nope, and the first one I did out of Poplar has held up well for 2 pennsics without even any sealant/finish on it. ... Well, the customer wants waterproof,
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                        On Tuesday 07 June 2005 11:17, Tim Bray wrote:
                        > Robin,
                        >
                        > Laminated poplar posts should hold up just fine. Poplar isn't as strong or
                        > as rot-resistant as oak, but I doubt you intend this bed to last for 500
                        > years, so...

                        Nope, and the first one I did out of Poplar has held up well for 2 pennsics
                        without even any sealant/finish on it.

                        >
                        > Properly done, laminated posts can be stronger than solid-wood; less prone
                        > to splitting.
                        >
                        > As I said earlier, the glue surface area will be so great that glue
                        > strength simply isn't an issue - you could even use Franklin Poly glue
                        > without worry ;-)
                        >

                        Well, the customer wants waterproof, so that's what he'll get :)

                        > The important thing is to make sure the faces being glued mate up
                        > perfectly. A jointer is the easiest way to do this.

                        Well, the actual finished size of a 1" x 3" is, as you know, 0.75" x 2.5".
                        Three of them laminated together will be 2.25" thick, so if I rip the
                        finished laminated post down to 2.25", I'll have nicely matched up faces :)

                        Plus, I need to do some refurb work on it, but I do have a jointer.....

                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > Colin

                        Robin
                      • ewdysar
                        My Gokstad replica slat bed is made from red oak boards, but 3 x3 oak was not readily available to me at the time, so I used a Doug Fir 4x4 ripped down to 3x3
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                          My Gokstad replica slat bed is made from red oak boards, but 3"x3"
                          oak was not readily available to me at the time, so I used a Doug
                          Fir 4x4 ripped down to 3x3 (actual) for "temporary" legs. The
                          original bed has legs that are asymetrically tapered, so I did not
                          want to laminate the pieces. The bed is now over 5 years old and
                          the legs are holding up fine. These legs are only loaded along
                          their axis and a 3"x2"x3/4" mortise is not a weak joint. The
                          assembly pegs put the legs in compression, the tenon tails in the
                          bed boards are probably the weakest point.

                          I haven't seen a period looking slat bed that fully breaks down with
                          modern hardware that hasn't ruined the hardware and become unusable
                          in 2 events (after a statistical sampling of 2). That builder now
                          has an all wood period slat bed (a poplar copy of mine) and is much
                          happier.

                          Good luck,
                          Eirikr Mjoksiglandi

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                          <cunning@f...> wrote:
                          > In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a
                          modern bed.
                          > Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through
                          mortises
                          > and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be
                          my choice
                          > for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that
                          have
                          > survived are mostly oak.
                          >
                          > James Cunningham
                        • Johann Friedrich
                          It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope bed. I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply from Home Depot),
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                            It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope bed.
                            I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply from
                            Home Depot), and used mortices to hold the rails. The only problem I had
                            was the cheap pine 2x6 I used for the rails started to warp, and the top
                            of one of the legs split open in the middle of the night with a loud
                            crack. Of course since it just cracked the top of the leg, there was no
                            danger of the bed falling to the ground or anything. To solve this
                            problem, I made new legs that were taller and had more "meat" above the
                            mortice so it could handle the strain a little more. Some day I will save
                            up the money to use better wood to replace the rails.

                            On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, ewdysar wrote:

                            > My Gokstad replica slat bed is made from red oak boards, but 3"x3"
                            > oak was not readily available to me at the time, so I used a Doug
                            > Fir 4x4 ripped down to 3x3 (actual) for "temporary" legs. The
                            > original bed has legs that are asymetrically tapered, so I did not
                            > want to laminate the pieces. The bed is now over 5 years old and
                            > the legs are holding up fine. These legs are only loaded along
                            > their axis and a 3"x2"x3/4" mortise is not a weak joint. The
                            > assembly pegs put the legs in compression, the tenon tails in the
                            > bed boards are probably the weakest point.
                            >
                            > I haven't seen a period looking slat bed that fully breaks down with
                            > modern hardware that hasn't ruined the hardware and become unusable
                            > in 2 events (after a statistical sampling of 2). That builder now
                            > has an all wood period slat bed (a poplar copy of mine) and is much
                            > happier.
                            >
                            > Good luck,
                            > Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
                            >
                            > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                            > <cunning@f...> wrote:
                            >> In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a
                            > modern bed.
                            >> Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through
                            > mortises
                            >> and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be
                            > my choice
                            >> for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that
                            > have
                            >> survived are mostly oak.
                            >>
                            >> James Cunningham
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[The Realm of Darkness]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= O-
                            Ken Bowley yahoo@...
                            AKA: Lord Johann Friedrich http://www.trod.org
                            -=-=-=-=[Per saltire sable and gules, in fess two rapiers Or]=-=-=-=-
                          • Lew Newby
                            I have used, Cherry, Ash, and Alder for the legs of beds I have made. My personal camp bed is done after the Gokstad funeral bed with some of my own
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                              I have used, Cherry, Ash, and Alder for the legs of beds I have made. My
                              personal camp bed is done after the Gokstad funeral bed with some of my
                              own customizations because I was having fun making stuff and not exactly
                              replicating. It uses alder legs, ashes rails all the way around and oak
                              slats (A freeby from my father that had a bunch of pre-used oak planks
                              that he gave me). This bed was made 8 years ago I think and I blew out
                              the tenon on a headboard rail by driving the pegs in too tight. Other
                              than that it has been through well over 200 events and has survived all
                              sorts of weather and traveled from California to Pennsylvania and back 5
                              times.

                              Personally I have prefered the completely Ash bed I made at the same
                              time as mine. It has a head board modification and really has seen
                              hundreds of events by now. It even sat in 6 inches of water for 2 days
                              at one event without any damage at all.

                              I have even used it as a guest bed in my house.

                              Farin

                              Johann Friedrich wrote:

                              > It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope bed.
                              > I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply from
                              > Home Depot), and used mortices to hold the rails. The only problem I had
                              > was the cheap pine 2x6 I used for the rails started to warp, and the top
                              > of one of the legs split open in the middle of the night with a loud
                              > crack. Of course since it just cracked the top of the leg, there was no
                              > danger of the bed falling to the ground or anything. To solve this
                              > problem, I made new legs that were taller and had more "meat" above the
                              > mortice so it could handle the strain a little more. Some day I will
                              > save
                              > up the money to use better wood to replace the rails.
                              >
                              > On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, ewdysar wrote:
                              >
                              > > My Gokstad replica slat bed is made from red oak boards, but 3"x3"
                              > > oak was not readily available to me at the time, so I used a Doug
                              > > Fir 4x4 ripped down to 3x3 (actual) for "temporary" legs. The
                              > > original bed has legs that are asymetrically tapered, so I did not
                              > > want to laminate the pieces. The bed is now over 5 years old and
                              > > the legs are holding up fine. These legs are only loaded along
                              > > their axis and a 3"x2"x3/4" mortise is not a weak joint. The
                              > > assembly pegs put the legs in compression, the tenon tails in the
                              > > bed boards are probably the weakest point.
                              > >
                              > > I haven't seen a period looking slat bed that fully breaks down with
                              > > modern hardware that hasn't ruined the hardware and become unusable
                              > > in 2 events (after a statistical sampling of 2). That builder now
                              > > has an all wood period slat bed (a poplar copy of mine) and is much
                              > > happier.
                              > >
                              > > Good luck,
                              > > Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
                              > >
                              > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                              > > <cunning@f...> wrote:
                              > >> In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a
                              > > modern bed.
                              > >> Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through
                              > > mortises
                              > >> and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be
                              > > my choice
                              > >> for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that
                              > > have
                              > >> survived are mostly oak.
                              > >>
                              > >> James Cunningham
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[The Realm of Darkness]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= O-
                              > Ken Bowley yahoo@...
                              > AKA: Lord Johann Friedrich http://www.trod.org
                              > -=-=-=-=[Per saltire sable and gules, in fess two rapiers Or]=-=-=-=-
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                            • ewdysar
                              Perhaps the problem was if the ropes are tightened enough to bow the rails, then the rails are trying to lever out of square, looking down from the top of the
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                                Perhaps the problem was if the ropes are tightened enough to bow the
                                rails, then the rails are trying to lever out of square, looking down
                                from the top of the leg. This levering could split the legs over
                                time. On a slat bed, the slats prevent that load.

                                Eirikr

                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Johann Friedrich <yahoo@t...>
                                wrote:
                                > It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope
                                bed.
                                > I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply
                                from
                                > Home Depot), and used mortices to hold the rails. The only problem
                                I had
                                > was the cheap pine 2x6 I used for the rails started to warp, and the
                                top
                                > of one of the legs split open in the middle of the night with a loud
                                > crack. Of course since it just cracked the top of the leg, there
                                was no
                                > danger of the bed falling to the ground or anything. To solve this
                                > problem, I made new legs that were taller and had more "meat" above
                                the
                                > mortice so it could handle the strain a little more.
                              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                I have seen them made out of pine, plywood and Oak. All can split and give trouble if the occupants act .... well you get the idea...but it still is only MY
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                                  I have seen them made out of pine, plywood and Oak. All can split and give
                                  trouble if the occupants act .... well you get the idea...but it still is
                                  only MY opinion not what will or has worked.
                                  If you feel confortable with poplar go for it. I would not.

                                  James Cunningham
                                  Who does not have room in the van for bed posts.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Lord Robin Gallowglass" <robin@...>
                                  To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:00 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength


                                  > On Monday 06 June 2005 23:37, James W. Pratt, Jr. wrote:
                                  > > In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a modern
                                  bed.
                                  > > Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through
                                  mortises
                                  > > and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be my
                                  >
                                  > Really? The first one I made was out of poplar, and I used a solid piece
                                  of
                                  > 2.75" x 2.75" poplar for the cornor posts that have two through mortises
                                  in
                                  > both directions. It's been to two pennsic's so far without any problems
                                  at
                                  > all.
                                  >
                                  > > choice for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds
                                  that
                                  > > have survived are mostly oak.
                                  > >
                                  > > James Cunningham
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Robin
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Johann Friedrich
                                  Nope, this was definitly from a warped rail. The pressures from the bowing rail aren t enough to break out the corner. In fact, the rails don t bow nearly as
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
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                                    Nope, this was definitly from a warped rail. The pressures from the
                                    bowing rail aren't enough to break out the corner. In fact, the rails
                                    don't bow nearly as much as I expected/planned them to. Of course this is
                                    probably because I used 1/2" manila at 8" centers rather than the 1/4"
                                    sisle that so many people seem to want to use. The mortises don't go all
                                    the way through, and the inside is left a little loose to allow for
                                    some movement while setting up the bed. The rails actually interlock with
                                    something similar to a box joint (one finger on one, and two fingers on
                                    the other) inside the leg, so the only real pressure the leg gets is under
                                    compression holding the rails off the ground. =-)

                                    On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, ewdysar wrote:

                                    > Perhaps the problem was if the ropes are tightened enough to bow the
                                    > rails, then the rails are trying to lever out of square, looking down
                                    > from the top of the leg. This levering could split the legs over time.
                                    > On a slat bed, the slats prevent that load.
                                    >
                                    > Eirikr
                                    >
                                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Johann Friedrich <yahoo@t...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >> It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope
                                    >> bed. I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply
                                    >> from Home Depot), and used mortices to hold the rails. The only
                                    >> problem I had was the cheap pine 2x6 I used for the rails started to
                                    >> warp, and the top of one of the legs split open in the middle of the
                                    >> night with a loud crack. Of course since it just cracked the top of
                                    >> the leg, there was no danger of the bed falling to the ground or
                                    >> anything. To solve this problem, I made new legs that were taller and
                                    >> had more "meat" above the mortice so it could handle the strain a
                                    >> little more.
                                  • Joseph Hayes
                                    ... My slat-style bed (I use plywood instead of slats) is held together with modern knock-down bed hardware from Woodcraft. It s gone to almost 10 Pennsics
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
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                                      --- ewdysar <ewdysar@...> wrote:
                                      > I haven't seen a period looking slat bed that fully breaks down with
                                      > modern hardware that hasn't ruined the hardware and become unusable
                                      > in 2 events (after a statistical sampling of 2).

                                      My slat-style bed (I use plywood instead of slats) is held together
                                      with modern knock-down bed hardware from Woodcraft. It's gone to
                                      almost 10 Pennsics and still works great.

                                      Bed:
                                      http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/bed.jpg
                                      (ignore the bed bolt covers. they just cover empty holes)

                                      Hardware:
                                      http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3269

                                      Ulrich




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                                    • ewdysar
                                      Wow, your van must be really packed. My slat bed legs are 3 x3 x24 , about 1/2 cubic foot. My Doug Fir bed legs have plenty of miles on them...if you catch
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
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                                        Wow, your van must be really packed. My slat bed legs are 3"x3"x24",
                                        about 1/2 cubic foot. My Doug Fir bed legs have plenty of "miles" on
                                        them...if you catch my drift... ;) with no problems.

                                        Eirikr

                                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                                        <cunning@f...> wrote:
                                        > I have seen them made out of pine, plywood and Oak. All can split
                                        and give
                                        > trouble if the occupants act .... well you get the idea...but it
                                        still is
                                        > only MY opinion not what will or has worked.
                                        > If you feel confortable with poplar go for it. I would not.
                                        >
                                        > James Cunningham
                                        > Who does not have room in the van for bed posts.
                                        >
                                      • ewdysar
                                        Looks like a great later period bed. How far does it break down, i.e. do the legs come off the head and foot boards? Are there supports under the ply bed
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
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                                          Looks like a great later period bed. How far does it break down,
                                          i.e. do the legs come off the head and foot boards? Are there
                                          supports under the ply bed base? So it appears no tools for
                                          assembly and all modern hardware hidden when put together.
                                          Excellent.

                                          Eirikr

                                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Hayes
                                          <von_landstuhl@y...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > My slat-style bed (I use plywood instead of slats) is held together
                                          > with modern knock-down bed hardware from Woodcraft. It's gone to
                                          > almost 10 Pennsics and still works great.
                                          >
                                          > Bed:
                                          > http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/bed.jpg
                                          > (ignore the bed bolt covers. they just cover empty holes)
                                          >
                                          > Hardware:
                                          > http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3269
                                          >
                                          > Ulrich
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > __________________________________
                                          > Discover Yahoo!
                                          > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
                                          Check it out!
                                          > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
                                        • Joseph Hayes
                                          ... It breaks down into 7 pieces. The sides break down into four pieces with the legs being integral to the head and footboards. The two pieces of plywood
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
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                                            --- ewdysar <ewdysar@...> wrote:
                                            > Looks like a great later period bed. How far does it break down,
                                            > i.e. do the legs come off the head and foot boards? Are there
                                            > supports under the ply bed base? So it appears no tools for
                                            > assembly and all modern hardware hidden when put together.

                                            It breaks down into 7 pieces. The sides break down into four pieces
                                            with the legs being integral to the head and footboards. The two
                                            pieces of plywood rest on a 2x4 rail that's screwed and glued around
                                            the inside. There's also a additional support across the middle (going
                                            across the shorter dimension).

                                            The bed hasn't survived in this form. While falling into it was easy
                                            enough, getting out took a little effort. Last year, I replaced the
                                            sides with 2x8's and kept the panels for a future project.

                                            As I mentioned before, the modern bed hardware works beautifully (and
                                            can't be seen). The only change I made from the packaging was to use
                                            longer screws in the endgrain of my new sides.

                                            Ulrich




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                                          • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                            Lets see.... two Tents, archery gear thats combat(must include armor bag) and real stuff, cloths for a week, bedding, box for dog, box for bird, bath pan and
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
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                                              Lets see.... two Tents, archery gear thats combat(must include armor bag)
                                              and real stuff, cloths for a week, bedding, box for dog, box for bird, bath
                                              pan and perch for bird, food for a week(no vendors) and if any person goes
                                              with me.... I will make the bed fit but it is still on the bottom of the to
                                              do list....after fixing manure spreader, wagon, and haybined...which
                                              requieres fixing the air compressor, cutting down an oak tree, that is if
                                              the chain saw is fixed. I am so glad I'm retired and do not "have ta" do
                                              anything.

                                              James Cunningham
                                              getting ready to go get the tires to replace the "baldies" on the Jeep.
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "ewdysar" <ewdysar@...>
                                              To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:36 PM
                                              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Relative strength


                                              > Wow, your van must be really packed. My slat bed legs are 3"x3"x24",
                                              > about 1/2 cubic foot. My Doug Fir bed legs have plenty of "miles" on
                                              > them...if you catch my drift... ;) with no problems.
                                              >
                                              > Eirikr
                                              >
                                              > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                                              > <cunning@f...> wrote:
                                              > > I have seen them made out of pine, plywood and Oak. All can split
                                              > and give
                                              > > trouble if the occupants act .... well you get the idea...but it
                                              > still is
                                              > > only MY opinion not what will or has worked.
                                              > > If you feel confortable with poplar go for it. I would not.
                                              > >
                                              > > James Cunningham
                                              > > Who does not have room in the van for bed posts.
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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