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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

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  • Lord Robin Gallowglass
    ... I was planning on using gorilla glue and lots and lots and lots and lots of clamps. Do you think I should do alignment pegs as well? Would you suggest
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
      On Monday 06 June 2005 13:56, Bill McNutt wrote:
      > Properly laminated, yes. You will probably prefer to paint, rather than
      > stain or just seal the finished product. That's why I hate laminating. I
      > can never get the finish I want.

      I was planning on using gorilla glue and lots and lots and lots and lots of
      clamps.

      Do you think I should do alignment pegs as well?

      Would you suggest doing the voids for the side rails (2 tennons at each end)
      or the head/foot board (1 tennon each, but 2 boards at the head and 1 at the
      foot)?

      >
      > Master Will
      > http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood

      Robin
    • Siegfried
      ... If 2.75 x 2.75 posts were good enough ... then the 2.25 x 2.25 ones, laminated, will definately be so (and will be stronger) Siegfried ... Whose rope
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
        > So, here's my question -- will 2 1/4" x 2 1/4" (three 3/4" boards laminated)
        > be strong enough for the corner posts of a queen size slat bed?

        If 2.75" x 2.75" posts were good enough ... then the 2.25" x 2.25"
        ones, laminated, will definately be so (and will be stronger)

        Siegfried ... Whose rope bed has 1.5" x 5.5" legs of cheap pine ;)

        --
        ___________________________________________________________________________
        THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
        Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
        Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
        http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
      • Logan
        i made mine in a similar way (two 1 x 4 glued and nailed to one 2 x 4 ) and i have had six guys my size stand on the runner to prove a point (each of us is
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
          i made mine in a similar way (two 1"  x 4" glued and nailed to one 2" x 4")  and i have had six guys my size stand on the runner to prove a point (each of us is 240lbs +).   you can see it have way down the following page:
           
           
          regards
          logan
           

          www.ebonwoulfe.com

          Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.


           

           


          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Robin Gallowglass
          Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 1:40 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

          The normal wood geek buddy that I run things by isn't available today, so I'll
          ask you all my question :)

          The first time I made my slat bed, I had some 12/4 poplar milled to 2 3/4" x 2
          3/4" for the corner posts.  Now that I go to make another one, I'm not as
          close to a mill as I used to be, and it's now an 1.5 drive one way to it.

          As a time saving measure, I was considering purchasing the poplar from my
          local large hardware chain that has decent quality boards, with very little
          warping, cupping or corkscrewing.

          However, they don't have anything big enough for the corner posts, so I would
          have to glue/laminate boards together for the corner posts.  One advantage of
          doing the corner posts this way, is I could leave voids for some of the
          mortises.

          So, here's my question -- will 2 1/4" x 2 1/4" (three 3/4" boards laminated)
          be strong enough for the corner posts of a queen size slat bed?

          By my rough estimates, buying the stock at the local large hardware chain will
          only be about $14 more than going to the mill, and I save 3 hours driving and
          crap load of rip cuts that would be a pain to do in my small little shop :)

          Thanks in advance,

          Robin


          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


        • Logan
          polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are doing. a high quality carpenters glue will hold just fine. several clamps will work as well and start
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
            polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are doing.  a high quality carpenters glue will hold just fine.  several clamps will work as well and start from the center and attach your clamps alternatively to the ends.  of course clamping on scrap pieces placed on top of your good pieces.  8)
             
            with mine (see previous email) i screwed the first piece to the 2 x4 then shot a few finish nails into the last piece after i clamped it.  nothing was visible from the outside of the bed since i blind attached all of the laminated pieces to it.
             
            best regards
            logan
             

            www.ebonwoulfe.com

            Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.


             

             


            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Robin Gallowglass
            Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:12 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

            On Monday 06 June 2005 13:56, Bill McNutt wrote:
            > Properly laminated, yes.  You will probably prefer to paint, rather than
            > stain or just seal the finished product.  That's why I hate laminating. I
            > can never get the finish I want.

            I was planning on using gorilla glue and lots and lots and lots and lots of
            clamps.

            Do you think I should do alignment pegs as well?

            Would you suggest doing the voids for the side rails (2 tennons at each end)
            or the head/foot board (1 tennon each, but 2 boards at the head and 1 at the
            foot)?

            >
            > Master Will
            > http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood

            Robin


            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


          • Lord Robin Gallowglass
            ... I think so, as does the customer. When I asked him if glued up lamited posts were acceptable to him, his reply was as long as the glue is waterproof,
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
              On Monday 06 June 2005 15:37, Logan wrote:
              > polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are doing. a high

              I think so, as does the customer. When I asked him if glued up lamited posts
              were acceptable to him, his reply was "as long as the glue is waterproof,
              it's ok" :)

              > quality carpenters glue will hold just fine. several clamps will work as
              > well and start from the center and attach your clamps alternatively to the
              > ends. of course clamping on scrap pieces placed on top of your good
              > pieces. 8)

              So put a clamp in the middle, and then start working in from the ends?

              >
              > with mine (see previous email) i screwed the first piece to the 2 x4 then
              > shot a few finish nails into the last piece after i clamped it. nothing
              > was visible from the outside of the bed since i blind attached all of the
              > laminated pieces to it.
              >
              > best regards
              > logan

              Robin
            • Logan
              a high end carpenters glue will hold fine unless he plans on his bed sitting in 14 of standing water for a few days. then, it just might get a wee bit soft.
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
                a high end carpenters glue will hold fine unless he plans on his bed sitting in 14" of standing water for a few days.  then, it just might get a wee bit soft.  i made some cheap pine benches 8 years ago that were retired to the area around my fighter practice some 4 years ago.  they are still going strong and were only glued together with elmers wood glue.  4 years of sitting outside and the glue has held up fine.
                 
                personally i like loctite brand outdoor wood worx.  the stuff is crazy strong and spreads nice and thin.  it flows better than any other glue ive used and the price is not too steep.
                 
                and no, what i mean is clamp like this:
                 
                 
                7 5 3 1 2 4 6
                 

                www.ebonwoulfe.com

                Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.


                 

                 


                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Robin Gallowglass
                Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 3:44 PM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

                On Monday 06 June 2005 15:37, Logan wrote:
                > polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are doing.  a high

                I think so, as does the customer.  When I asked him if glued up lamited posts
                were acceptable to him, his reply was "as long as the glue is waterproof,
                it's ok" :)

                > quality carpenters glue will hold just fine.  several clamps will work as
                > well and start from the center and attach your clamps alternatively to the
                > ends.  of course clamping on scrap pieces placed on top of your good
                > pieces. 8)

                So put a clamp in the middle, and then start working in from the ends?

                >
                > with mine (see previous email) i screwed the first piece to the 2 x4 then
                > shot a few finish nails into the last piece after i clamped it.  nothing
                > was visible from the outside of the bed since i blind attached all of the
                > laminated pieces to it.
                >
                > best regards
                > logan

                Robin


                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


              • Lord Robin Gallowglass
                ... Remember, the customer is always right. He s paying me to make the bed. If he wants 100% waterproof gorillaglue, then he gets gorillaglue :) ... I ll
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
                  On Monday 06 June 2005 15:49, Logan wrote:
                  > a high end carpenters glue will hold fine unless he plans on his bed
                  > sitting in 14" of standing water for a few days. then, it just might get a

                  Remember, the customer is always right. He's paying me to make the bed. If
                  he wants 100% waterproof gorillaglue, then he gets gorillaglue :)

                  > wee bit soft. i made some cheap pine benches 8 years ago that were retired
                  > to the area around my fighter practice some 4 years ago. they are still
                  > going strong and were only glued together with elmers wood glue. 4 years
                  > of sitting outside and the glue has held up fine.
                  >
                  > personally i like loctite brand outdoor wood worx. the stuff is crazy
                  > strong and spreads nice and thin. it flows better than any other glue ive
                  > used and the price is not too steep.

                  I'll take a look at it.

                  >
                  > and no, what i mean is clamp like this:
                  >
                  >
                  > 7 5 3 1 2 4 6
                  >

                  Gotcha!

                  >
                  > www.ebonwoulfe.com
                  >
                  > Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still
                  > can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

                  Robin
                • Siegfried
                  ... Just use Titebond II, or your other favorite equivilant of waterproof carpenter s glue. The expense of Gorilla Glue just isn t needed for this project. Or
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
                    > > polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are doing. a high
                    >
                    > I think so, as does the customer. When I asked him if glued up lamited posts
                    > were acceptable to him, his reply was "as long as the glue is waterproof,
                    > it's ok" :)

                    Just use Titebond II, or your other favorite equivilant of waterproof
                    carpenter's glue.

                    The expense of Gorilla Glue just isn't needed for this project.

                    Or at least, if you really do wanna use it, buy a cheaper polyurathane
                    than Gorilla. :)

                    Siegfried


                    --
                    ___________________________________________________________________________
                    THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                    Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                    Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                    http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                  • Logan
                    yep titebond is great stuff too and i forgot its waterproof. come to think of it now it lives behind my gallon of wood worx and thats why i didnt remember it
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
                      yep titebond is great stuff too and i forgot its waterproof.  come to think of it now it lives behind my gallon of wood worx and thats why i didnt remember it earlier. 
                       
                      and yes, if your guy insists on polyurethane glue buy one of the non famous brands.  same stuff less cost.  8)
                       

                      www.ebonwoulfe.com

                      Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.


                       

                       


                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried
                      Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 3:59 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

                      > > polyurethane glue really isnt required for what you are
                      doing.  a high
                      >
                      > I think so, as does the customer. 
                      When I asked him if glued up lamited posts
                      > were acceptable to him, his
                      reply was "as long as the glue is waterproof,
                      > it's ok" :)

                      Just use Titebond II, or your other favorite equivilant of waterproof
                      carpenter's glue.

                      The expense of Gorilla Glue just isn't needed for this project.

                      Or at least, if you really do wanna use it, buy a cheaper polyurathane
                      than Gorilla. :)

                      Siegfried


                      --
                      ___________________________________________________________________________
                      THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust                         http://crossbows.biz/
                      Barony of Highland Foorde           Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                      Kingdom of Atlantia          Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                      http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/   http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/


                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


                    • Sean Powell
                      You could always take a page from the Frank Lloyd Wright school of laminating: cut 4 board and bevel the sides at 45 degrees. Glue into a box around a solid
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
                        You could always take a page from the Frank Lloyd Wright school of laminating: cut 4 board and bevel the sides at 45 degrees. Glue into a box around a solid square core. The result leaves the "seams" of the lamination on the edge where they aren't visible and creates a large solid block that is less prone to splitting when drying etc. I don't think this will leave voids quite where you want them but the overall structure is VERY strong.
                         
                        Sean (who usually just lurks)
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bill McNutt
                        Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 1:56 PM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

                        Properly laminated, yes.  You will probably prefer to paint, rather than
                        stain or just seal the finished product.  That's why I hate laminating. I
                        can never get the finish I want.

                        Master Will
                        http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Robin Gallowglass
                        Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:40 PM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength

                        The normal wood geek buddy that I run things by isn't available today, so
                        I'll
                        ask you all my question :)

                        The first time I made my slat bed, I had some 12/4 poplar milled to 2 3/4" x
                        2
                        3/4" for the corner posts.  Now that I go to make another one, I'm not as
                        close to a mill as I used to be, and it's now an 1.5 drive one way to it.

                        As a time saving measure, I was considering purchasing the poplar from my
                        local large hardware chain that has decent quality boards, with very little
                        warping, cupping or corkscrewing.

                        However, they don't have anything big enough for the corner posts, so I
                        would
                        have to glue/laminate boards together for the corner posts.  One advantage
                        of
                        doing the corner posts this way, is I could leave voids for some of the
                        mortises.

                        So, here's my question -- will 2 1/4" x 2 1/4" (three 3/4" boards laminated)

                        be strong enough for the corner posts of a queen size slat bed?

                        By my rough estimates, buying the stock at the local large hardware chain
                        will
                        only be about $14 more than going to the mill, and I save 3 hours driving
                        and
                        crap load of rip cuts that would be a pain to do in my small little shop :)

                        Thanks in advance,

                        Robin



                        Yahoo! Groups Links









                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                             http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


                      • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                        In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a modern bed. Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through mortises and
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 6, 2005
                          In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a modern bed.
                          Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through mortises
                          and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be my choice
                          for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that have
                          survived are mostly oak.

                          James Cunningham

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Lord Robin Gallowglass" <robin@...>
                          To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 1:40 PM
                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength


                          > The normal wood geek buddy that I run things by isn't available today, so
                          I'll
                          > ask you all my question :)
                          >
                          > The first time I made my slat bed, I had some 12/4 poplar milled to 2 3/4"
                          x 2
                          > 3/4" for the corner posts. Now that I go to make another one, I'm not as
                          > close to a mill as I used to be, and it's now an 1.5 drive one way to it.
                          >
                          > As a time saving measure, I was considering purchasing the poplar from my
                          > local large hardware chain that has decent quality boards, with very
                          little
                          > warping, cupping or corkscrewing.
                          >
                          > However, they don't have anything big enough for the corner posts, so I
                          would
                          > have to glue/laminate boards together for the corner posts. One advantage
                          of
                          > doing the corner posts this way, is I could leave voids for some of the
                          > mortises.
                          >
                          > So, here's my question -- will 2 1/4" x 2 1/4" (three 3/4" boards
                          laminated)
                          > be strong enough for the corner posts of a queen size slat bed?
                          >
                          > By my rough estimates, buying the stock at the local large hardware chain
                          will
                          > only be about $14 more than going to the mill, and I save 3 hours driving
                          and
                          > crap load of rip cuts that would be a pain to do in my small little shop
                          :)
                          >
                          > Thanks in advance,
                          >
                          > Robin
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Lord Robin Gallowglass
                          ... Really? The first one I made was out of poplar, and I used a solid piece of 2.75 x 2.75 poplar for the cornor posts that have two through mortises in
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                            On Monday 06 June 2005 23:37, James W. Pratt, Jr. wrote:
                            > In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a modern bed.
                            > Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through mortises
                            > and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be my

                            Really? The first one I made was out of poplar, and I used a solid piece of
                            2.75" x 2.75" poplar for the cornor posts that have two through mortises in
                            both directions. It's been to two pennsic's so far without any problems at
                            all.

                            > choice for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that
                            > have survived are mostly oak.
                            >
                            > James Cunningham
                            >

                            Robin
                          • Tim Bray
                            Robin, Laminated poplar posts should hold up just fine. Poplar isn t as strong or as rot-resistant as oak, but I doubt you intend this bed to last for 500
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                              Robin,

                              Laminated poplar posts should hold up just fine.  Poplar isn't as strong or as rot-resistant as oak, but I doubt you intend this bed to last for 500 years, so...

                              Properly done, laminated posts can be stronger than solid-wood; less prone to splitting.

                              As I said earlier, the glue surface area will be so great that glue strength simply isn't an issue - you could even use Franklin Poly glue without worry  ;-)

                              The important thing is to make sure the faces being glued mate up perfectly.  A jointer is the easiest way to do this. 

                              Cheers,
                              Colin

                               

                              Albion Works
                              Furniture and Accessories
                              For the Medievalist!
                            • Lord Robin Gallowglass
                              ... Nope, and the first one I did out of Poplar has held up well for 2 pennsics without even any sealant/finish on it. ... Well, the customer wants waterproof,
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                                On Tuesday 07 June 2005 11:17, Tim Bray wrote:
                                > Robin,
                                >
                                > Laminated poplar posts should hold up just fine. Poplar isn't as strong or
                                > as rot-resistant as oak, but I doubt you intend this bed to last for 500
                                > years, so...

                                Nope, and the first one I did out of Poplar has held up well for 2 pennsics
                                without even any sealant/finish on it.

                                >
                                > Properly done, laminated posts can be stronger than solid-wood; less prone
                                > to splitting.
                                >
                                > As I said earlier, the glue surface area will be so great that glue
                                > strength simply isn't an issue - you could even use Franklin Poly glue
                                > without worry ;-)
                                >

                                Well, the customer wants waterproof, so that's what he'll get :)

                                > The important thing is to make sure the faces being glued mate up
                                > perfectly. A jointer is the easiest way to do this.

                                Well, the actual finished size of a 1" x 3" is, as you know, 0.75" x 2.5".
                                Three of them laminated together will be 2.25" thick, so if I rip the
                                finished laminated post down to 2.25", I'll have nicely matched up faces :)

                                Plus, I need to do some refurb work on it, but I do have a jointer.....

                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                > Colin

                                Robin
                              • ewdysar
                                My Gokstad replica slat bed is made from red oak boards, but 3 x3 oak was not readily available to me at the time, so I used a Doug Fir 4x4 ripped down to 3x3
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                                  My Gokstad replica slat bed is made from red oak boards, but 3"x3"
                                  oak was not readily available to me at the time, so I used a Doug
                                  Fir 4x4 ripped down to 3x3 (actual) for "temporary" legs. The
                                  original bed has legs that are asymetrically tapered, so I did not
                                  want to laminate the pieces. The bed is now over 5 years old and
                                  the legs are holding up fine. These legs are only loaded along
                                  their axis and a 3"x2"x3/4" mortise is not a weak joint. The
                                  assembly pegs put the legs in compression, the tenon tails in the
                                  bed boards are probably the weakest point.

                                  I haven't seen a period looking slat bed that fully breaks down with
                                  modern hardware that hasn't ruined the hardware and become unusable
                                  in 2 events (after a statistical sampling of 2). That builder now
                                  has an all wood period slat bed (a poplar copy of mine) and is much
                                  happier.

                                  Good luck,
                                  Eirikr Mjoksiglandi

                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                                  <cunning@f...> wrote:
                                  > In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a
                                  modern bed.
                                  > Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through
                                  mortises
                                  > and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be
                                  my choice
                                  > for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that
                                  have
                                  > survived are mostly oak.
                                  >
                                  > James Cunningham
                                • Johann Friedrich
                                  It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope bed. I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply from Home Depot),
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                                    It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope bed.
                                    I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply from
                                    Home Depot), and used mortices to hold the rails. The only problem I had
                                    was the cheap pine 2x6 I used for the rails started to warp, and the top
                                    of one of the legs split open in the middle of the night with a loud
                                    crack. Of course since it just cracked the top of the leg, there was no
                                    danger of the bed falling to the ground or anything. To solve this
                                    problem, I made new legs that were taller and had more "meat" above the
                                    mortice so it could handle the strain a little more. Some day I will save
                                    up the money to use better wood to replace the rails.

                                    On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, ewdysar wrote:

                                    > My Gokstad replica slat bed is made from red oak boards, but 3"x3"
                                    > oak was not readily available to me at the time, so I used a Doug
                                    > Fir 4x4 ripped down to 3x3 (actual) for "temporary" legs. The
                                    > original bed has legs that are asymetrically tapered, so I did not
                                    > want to laminate the pieces. The bed is now over 5 years old and
                                    > the legs are holding up fine. These legs are only loaded along
                                    > their axis and a 3"x2"x3/4" mortise is not a weak joint. The
                                    > assembly pegs put the legs in compression, the tenon tails in the
                                    > bed boards are probably the weakest point.
                                    >
                                    > I haven't seen a period looking slat bed that fully breaks down with
                                    > modern hardware that hasn't ruined the hardware and become unusable
                                    > in 2 events (after a statistical sampling of 2). That builder now
                                    > has an all wood period slat bed (a poplar copy of mine) and is much
                                    > happier.
                                    >
                                    > Good luck,
                                    > Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
                                    >
                                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                                    > <cunning@f...> wrote:
                                    >> In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a
                                    > modern bed.
                                    >> Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through
                                    > mortises
                                    >> and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be
                                    > my choice
                                    >> for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that
                                    > have
                                    >> survived are mostly oak.
                                    >>
                                    >> James Cunningham
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
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                                    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[The Realm of Darkness]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= O-
                                    Ken Bowley yahoo@...
                                    AKA: Lord Johann Friedrich http://www.trod.org
                                    -=-=-=-=[Per saltire sable and gules, in fess two rapiers Or]=-=-=-=-
                                  • Lew Newby
                                    I have used, Cherry, Ash, and Alder for the legs of beds I have made. My personal camp bed is done after the Gokstad funeral bed with some of my own
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                                      I have used, Cherry, Ash, and Alder for the legs of beds I have made. My
                                      personal camp bed is done after the Gokstad funeral bed with some of my
                                      own customizations because I was having fun making stuff and not exactly
                                      replicating. It uses alder legs, ashes rails all the way around and oak
                                      slats (A freeby from my father that had a bunch of pre-used oak planks
                                      that he gave me). This bed was made 8 years ago I think and I blew out
                                      the tenon on a headboard rail by driving the pegs in too tight. Other
                                      than that it has been through well over 200 events and has survived all
                                      sorts of weather and traveled from California to Pennsylvania and back 5
                                      times.

                                      Personally I have prefered the completely Ash bed I made at the same
                                      time as mine. It has a head board modification and really has seen
                                      hundreds of events by now. It even sat in 6 inches of water for 2 days
                                      at one event without any damage at all.

                                      I have even used it as a guest bed in my house.

                                      Farin

                                      Johann Friedrich wrote:

                                      > It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope bed.
                                      > I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply from
                                      > Home Depot), and used mortices to hold the rails. The only problem I had
                                      > was the cheap pine 2x6 I used for the rails started to warp, and the top
                                      > of one of the legs split open in the middle of the night with a loud
                                      > crack. Of course since it just cracked the top of the leg, there was no
                                      > danger of the bed falling to the ground or anything. To solve this
                                      > problem, I made new legs that were taller and had more "meat" above the
                                      > mortice so it could handle the strain a little more. Some day I will
                                      > save
                                      > up the money to use better wood to replace the rails.
                                      >
                                      > On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, ewdysar wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > My Gokstad replica slat bed is made from red oak boards, but 3"x3"
                                      > > oak was not readily available to me at the time, so I used a Doug
                                      > > Fir 4x4 ripped down to 3x3 (actual) for "temporary" legs. The
                                      > > original bed has legs that are asymetrically tapered, so I did not
                                      > > want to laminate the pieces. The bed is now over 5 years old and
                                      > > the legs are holding up fine. These legs are only loaded along
                                      > > their axis and a 3"x2"x3/4" mortise is not a weak joint. The
                                      > > assembly pegs put the legs in compression, the tenon tails in the
                                      > > bed boards are probably the weakest point.
                                      > >
                                      > > I haven't seen a period looking slat bed that fully breaks down with
                                      > > modern hardware that hasn't ruined the hardware and become unusable
                                      > > in 2 events (after a statistical sampling of 2). That builder now
                                      > > has an all wood period slat bed (a poplar copy of mine) and is much
                                      > > happier.
                                      > >
                                      > > Good luck,
                                      > > Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                                      > > <cunning@f...> wrote:
                                      > >> In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a
                                      > > modern bed.
                                      > >> Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through
                                      > > mortises
                                      > >> and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be
                                      > > my choice
                                      > >> for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds that
                                      > > have
                                      > >> survived are mostly oak.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> James Cunningham
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[The Realm of Darkness]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= O-
                                      > Ken Bowley yahoo@...
                                      > AKA: Lord Johann Friedrich http://www.trod.org
                                      > -=-=-=-=[Per saltire sable and gules, in fess two rapiers Or]=-=-=-=-
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      --
                                      Lew Newby Jr. http://www.neei.com/~gideon
                                      SCA: Ian the Fariner of Dunkeld, OP
                                      dragon@...
                                      Head of Wyverns Keep
                                      ****** Draco Aliquando Vincent ******



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                                    • ewdysar
                                      Perhaps the problem was if the ropes are tightened enough to bow the rails, then the rails are trying to lever out of square, looking down from the top of the
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                                        Perhaps the problem was if the ropes are tightened enough to bow the
                                        rails, then the rails are trying to lever out of square, looking down
                                        from the top of the leg. This levering could split the legs over
                                        time. On a slat bed, the slats prevent that load.

                                        Eirikr

                                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Johann Friedrich <yahoo@t...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope
                                        bed.
                                        > I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply
                                        from
                                        > Home Depot), and used mortices to hold the rails. The only problem
                                        I had
                                        > was the cheap pine 2x6 I used for the rails started to warp, and the
                                        top
                                        > of one of the legs split open in the middle of the night with a loud
                                        > crack. Of course since it just cracked the top of the leg, there
                                        was no
                                        > danger of the bed falling to the ground or anything. To solve this
                                        > problem, I made new legs that were taller and had more "meat" above
                                        the
                                        > mortice so it could handle the strain a little more.
                                      • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                        I have seen them made out of pine, plywood and Oak. All can split and give trouble if the occupants act .... well you get the idea...but it still is only MY
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                                          I have seen them made out of pine, plywood and Oak. All can split and give
                                          trouble if the occupants act .... well you get the idea...but it still is
                                          only MY opinion not what will or has worked.
                                          If you feel confortable with poplar go for it. I would not.

                                          James Cunningham
                                          Who does not have room in the van for bed posts.

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Lord Robin Gallowglass" <robin@...>
                                          To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:00 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Relative strength


                                          > On Monday 06 June 2005 23:37, James W. Pratt, Jr. wrote:
                                          > > In MY opinion NO. Not without the mating hardward that in in a modern
                                          bed.
                                          > > Poplar is softer than yellow pine and will not stand up to through
                                          mortises
                                          > > and pins for any length of time. Red, white, or brown Oak would be my
                                          >
                                          > Really? The first one I made was out of poplar, and I used a solid piece
                                          of
                                          > 2.75" x 2.75" poplar for the cornor posts that have two through mortises
                                          in
                                          > both directions. It's been to two pennsic's so far without any problems
                                          at
                                          > all.
                                          >
                                          > > choice for any bed posts that will see camping use. The viking beds
                                          that
                                          > > have survived are mostly oak.
                                          > >
                                          > > James Cunningham
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > Robin
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Johann Friedrich
                                          Nope, this was definitly from a warped rail. The pressures from the bowing rail aren t enough to break out the corner. In fact, the rails don t bow nearly as
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jun 7, 2005
                                            Nope, this was definitly from a warped rail. The pressures from the
                                            bowing rail aren't enough to break out the corner. In fact, the rails
                                            don't bow nearly as much as I expected/planned them to. Of course this is
                                            probably because I used 1/2" manila at 8" centers rather than the 1/4"
                                            sisle that so many people seem to want to use. The mortises don't go all
                                            the way through, and the inside is left a little loose to allow for
                                            some movement while setting up the bed. The rails actually interlock with
                                            something similar to a box joint (one finger on one, and two fingers on
                                            the other) inside the leg, so the only real pressure the leg gets is under
                                            compression holding the rails off the ground. =-)

                                            On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, ewdysar wrote:

                                            > Perhaps the problem was if the ropes are tightened enough to bow the
                                            > rails, then the rails are trying to lever out of square, looking down
                                            > from the top of the leg. This levering could split the legs over time.
                                            > On a slat bed, the slats prevent that load.
                                            >
                                            > Eirikr
                                            >
                                            > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Johann Friedrich <yahoo@t...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            >> It sounds like you did something very similar to how I made my rope
                                            >> bed. I used 4x4 (I think they were fir... whatever I could grab cheaply
                                            >> from Home Depot), and used mortices to hold the rails. The only
                                            >> problem I had was the cheap pine 2x6 I used for the rails started to
                                            >> warp, and the top of one of the legs split open in the middle of the
                                            >> night with a loud crack. Of course since it just cracked the top of
                                            >> the leg, there was no danger of the bed falling to the ground or
                                            >> anything. To solve this problem, I made new legs that were taller and
                                            >> had more "meat" above the mortice so it could handle the strain a
                                            >> little more.
                                          • Joseph Hayes
                                            ... My slat-style bed (I use plywood instead of slats) is held together with modern knock-down bed hardware from Woodcraft. It s gone to almost 10 Pennsics
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
                                              --- ewdysar <ewdysar@...> wrote:
                                              > I haven't seen a period looking slat bed that fully breaks down with
                                              > modern hardware that hasn't ruined the hardware and become unusable
                                              > in 2 events (after a statistical sampling of 2).

                                              My slat-style bed (I use plywood instead of slats) is held together
                                              with modern knock-down bed hardware from Woodcraft. It's gone to
                                              almost 10 Pennsics and still works great.

                                              Bed:
                                              http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/bed.jpg
                                              (ignore the bed bolt covers. they just cover empty holes)

                                              Hardware:
                                              http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3269

                                              Ulrich




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                                            • ewdysar
                                              Wow, your van must be really packed. My slat bed legs are 3 x3 x24 , about 1/2 cubic foot. My Doug Fir bed legs have plenty of miles on them...if you catch
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
                                                Wow, your van must be really packed. My slat bed legs are 3"x3"x24",
                                                about 1/2 cubic foot. My Doug Fir bed legs have plenty of "miles" on
                                                them...if you catch my drift... ;) with no problems.

                                                Eirikr

                                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                                                <cunning@f...> wrote:
                                                > I have seen them made out of pine, plywood and Oak. All can split
                                                and give
                                                > trouble if the occupants act .... well you get the idea...but it
                                                still is
                                                > only MY opinion not what will or has worked.
                                                > If you feel confortable with poplar go for it. I would not.
                                                >
                                                > James Cunningham
                                                > Who does not have room in the van for bed posts.
                                                >
                                              • ewdysar
                                                Looks like a great later period bed. How far does it break down, i.e. do the legs come off the head and foot boards? Are there supports under the ply bed
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
                                                  Looks like a great later period bed. How far does it break down,
                                                  i.e. do the legs come off the head and foot boards? Are there
                                                  supports under the ply bed base? So it appears no tools for
                                                  assembly and all modern hardware hidden when put together.
                                                  Excellent.

                                                  Eirikr

                                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Hayes
                                                  <von_landstuhl@y...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > My slat-style bed (I use plywood instead of slats) is held together
                                                  > with modern knock-down bed hardware from Woodcraft. It's gone to
                                                  > almost 10 Pennsics and still works great.
                                                  >
                                                  > Bed:
                                                  > http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/bed.jpg
                                                  > (ignore the bed bolt covers. they just cover empty holes)
                                                  >
                                                  > Hardware:
                                                  > http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3269
                                                  >
                                                  > Ulrich
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
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                                                • Joseph Hayes
                                                  ... It breaks down into 7 pieces. The sides break down into four pieces with the legs being integral to the head and footboards. The two pieces of plywood
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
                                                    --- ewdysar <ewdysar@...> wrote:
                                                    > Looks like a great later period bed. How far does it break down,
                                                    > i.e. do the legs come off the head and foot boards? Are there
                                                    > supports under the ply bed base? So it appears no tools for
                                                    > assembly and all modern hardware hidden when put together.

                                                    It breaks down into 7 pieces. The sides break down into four pieces
                                                    with the legs being integral to the head and footboards. The two
                                                    pieces of plywood rest on a 2x4 rail that's screwed and glued around
                                                    the inside. There's also a additional support across the middle (going
                                                    across the shorter dimension).

                                                    The bed hasn't survived in this form. While falling into it was easy
                                                    enough, getting out took a little effort. Last year, I replaced the
                                                    sides with 2x8's and kept the panels for a future project.

                                                    As I mentioned before, the modern bed hardware works beautifully (and
                                                    can't be seen). The only change I made from the packaging was to use
                                                    longer screws in the endgrain of my new sides.

                                                    Ulrich




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                                                  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                                    Lets see.... two Tents, archery gear thats combat(must include armor bag) and real stuff, cloths for a week, bedding, box for dog, box for bird, bath pan and
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Jun 8, 2005
                                                      Lets see.... two Tents, archery gear thats combat(must include armor bag)
                                                      and real stuff, cloths for a week, bedding, box for dog, box for bird, bath
                                                      pan and perch for bird, food for a week(no vendors) and if any person goes
                                                      with me.... I will make the bed fit but it is still on the bottom of the to
                                                      do list....after fixing manure spreader, wagon, and haybined...which
                                                      requieres fixing the air compressor, cutting down an oak tree, that is if
                                                      the chain saw is fixed. I am so glad I'm retired and do not "have ta" do
                                                      anything.

                                                      James Cunningham
                                                      getting ready to go get the tires to replace the "baldies" on the Jeep.
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: "ewdysar" <ewdysar@...>
                                                      To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:36 PM
                                                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Relative strength


                                                      > Wow, your van must be really packed. My slat bed legs are 3"x3"x24",
                                                      > about 1/2 cubic foot. My Doug Fir bed legs have plenty of "miles" on
                                                      > them...if you catch my drift... ;) with no problems.
                                                      >
                                                      > Eirikr
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                                                      > <cunning@f...> wrote:
                                                      > > I have seen them made out of pine, plywood and Oak. All can split
                                                      > and give
                                                      > > trouble if the occupants act .... well you get the idea...but it
                                                      > still is
                                                      > > only MY opinion not what will or has worked.
                                                      > > If you feel confortable with poplar go for it. I would not.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > James Cunningham
                                                      > > Who does not have room in the van for bed posts.
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
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