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Re: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

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  • celtwolf@okplus.com
    Avraham; You should have gotten a picture attached - I didn t see it right away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn t get it, or if you re reading
    Message 1 of 23 , May 4, 2005
      Avraham;

      You "should" have gotten a picture attached - I didn't see it right
      away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn't get it, or if you're
      reading off the web, let me know and I'll forward the picture to you.

      Conal;

      Poplar vs. oak probably "would" compromise the strength somewhat, so the
      question would most likely be "could it compromise the strength
      _enough_". I'd guess that the engineering of the chair would be
      sufficient for "most" people. To be safe though, you could always try
      it with five or more slats per side.

      Personally, I would - if only to learn that it's not a good idea. If
      you're uncomfortable with the finished product, you could always specify
      it as a "child's only" chair.

      Wolf

      Avraham wrote:
      >
      > Um, make what?
      > Avraham
      > new to the group, not so much to woodworking
      >
      > >I can't decide, but I know I have
      > >a tendency to over build...
      > >
      > >Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
      > >stock without compromising the strength?
      > >
      > >I've made one from red oak and these two
      > >from white oak.... I just can't convince
      > >myself one way or the other about trying
      > >one in poplar...
      > >
      > >Opinions?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
      > >
      > > Aude Aliquid Dignum
      > > ' Dare Something Worthy '
    • Avraham
      Wolf, Ah - down *below* all the yahoo ad stuff. I ve never been on a list that wasn t set to strip attachments before, now I know. Thanks! Conal, Poplar
      Message 2 of 23 , May 4, 2005
        Wolf,
        Ah - down *below* all the yahoo ad stuff. I've never been on a list that
        wasn't set to strip attachments before, now I know. Thanks!

        Conal,
        Poplar isn't *that* weak, I think it would work fine. Of course, you
        wouldn't want some of the larger folks in them, but sizing them
        appropriately should help that. :)
        Avraham


        >Avraham;
        >
        >You "should" have gotten a picture attached - I didn't see it right
        >away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn't get it, or if you're
        >reading off the web, let me know and I'll forward the picture to you.
        >
        >Conal;
        >
        >Poplar vs. oak probably "would" compromise the strength somewhat, so the
        >question would most likely be "could it compromise the strength
        >_enough_". I'd guess that the engineering of the chair would be
        >sufficient for "most" people. To be safe though, you could always try
        >it with five or more slats per side.
        >
        >Personally, I would - if only to learn that it's not a good idea. If
        >you're uncomfortable with the finished product, you could always specify
        >it as a "child's only" chair.
        >
        >Wolf
        >
        >Avraham wrote:
        > >
        > > Um, make what?
        > > Avraham
        > > new to the group, not so much to woodworking
        > >
        > > >I can't decide, but I know I have
        > > >a tendency to over build...
        > > >
        > > >Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
        > > >stock without compromising the strength?
        > > >
        > > >I've made one from red oak and these two
        > > >from white oak.... I just can't convince
        > > >myself one way or the other about trying
        > > >one in poplar...
        > > >
        > > >Opinions?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
        > > >
        > > > Aude Aliquid Dignum
        > > > ' Dare Something Worthy '
      • Joseph Hayes
        I always thought poplar was one of the softer hardwoods, but you should be OK. If I remember my American furniture history, it doesn t take a stain well and
        Message 3 of 23 , May 4, 2005
          I always thought poplar was one of the softer hardwoods, but you should
          be OK. If I remember my American furniture history, it doesn't take a
          stain well and was often painted.

          My first fauldstuhl is made of 1x2 pine (sold as trim) and is sitting
          in my bathroom. I went 11 pieces deep so there's more "legs" to carry
          the weight.

          Ulrich


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        • Chuck Phillips
          Actually, you should be fine, strengthwise. Poplar is commonly used for framing in upholstered furniture, where it doesn t get seen. The problem you _will_
          Message 4 of 23 , May 4, 2005
            Actually, you should be fine, strengthwise.  Poplar is commonly used for framing in upholstered furniture, where it doesn't get seen.  The problem you _will_ encounter is that it just doesn't look as nice.  You may well run into areas that have a greenish tint, and the relative softness of the wood makes it difficult to get a smooth finish.  I always wind up with a bit of fuzziness on the first pass.
             
            Charles Joiner
            Caid
            -----Original Message-----
            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:43 PM
            To: sawdust
            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

            I can't decide, but I know I have
            a tendency to over build...

            Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
            stock without compromising the strength?

            I've made one from red oak and these two
            from white oak.... I just can't convince
            myself one way or the other about trying
            one in poplar...

            Opinions?





            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

               Aude Aliquid Dignum
                 ' Dare Something Worthy '


                       
            __________________________________
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            Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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          • James Winkler
            I agree with Charles Joiner... the first one of these I made was from 1 x 2 pine strips... is VERY light. The legs flex a bit when somebody of my delicate
            Message 5 of 23 , May 4, 2005
              I agree with Charles Joiner...  the first one of these I made was from 1 x 2 pine strips...  is VERY light.  The legs flex a bit when somebody of my delicate size sits on it... but it was the first one I built... and m'Lady still uses it...  (3 legs each side... six seat boards...)
               
              Chas.
               
               
            • Trevor Payne
              Is western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar? Aiden
              Message 6 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                Is western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar?

                Aiden
              • Avraham
                Hey, Aiden, fancy seeing you here. Avraham
                Message 7 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                  Hey, Aiden, fancy seeing you here.
                  Avraham

                  >Is western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar?
                  >
                  >Aiden
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Schuster, Robert L.
                  Damn Calontiri! Halv ________________________________ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Sent:
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                    Damn Calontiri!
                     
                    Halv
                     


                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Avraham
                    Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:34 AM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                    Hey, Aiden, fancy seeing you here.
                    Avraham

                    >Is
                    western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar?
                    >
                    >Aiden
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups
                    Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >



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                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


                  • Joseph Paul
                    Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing my rough cut stock to size. With
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                      Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing my rough cut stock to size.  With that capability in mind what would be a good thickness of poplar to do a faldstool in?
                       
                      Oh by the way: Hi everybody! I am new here and only so-so skilled with wood but very interested in medieval furniture and techniques.
                       
                      Jamie Blackrose
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 6:43 PM
                      To: sawdust
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                      I can't decide, but I know I have
                      a tendency to over build...

                      Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
                      stock without compromising the strength?

                      I've made one from red oak and these two
                      from white oak.... I just can't convince
                      myself one way or the other about trying
                      one in poplar...

                      Opinions?





                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                         Aude Aliquid Dignum
                           ' Dare Something Worthy '


                                 
                      __________________________________
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                      Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                    • powell.sean@comcast.net
                      Hello all, This is my first post here and hopefully I won t offend the more medievally minded of you by being a geek on my first post. From Marks Standard
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                        Hello all,
                        This is my first post here and hopefully I won't offend the more medievally minded of you by being a geek on my first post.
                         
                        From Marks Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers, Chapter 6, Table 6.7.2 Strengths and related properties of Wood...
                         
                        Wood ; Modulus of Rupture (lbs/in^2) ; Modulus of Elasticity (ksi)
                        Red Oak ; 14,300 ; 1,800
                        Poplar, yellow ; 10,100 ; 1,580
                        Pine, Eastern White ; 8,600 ; 1,240
                        Ceder, Western Red ; 7,500 ; 1,110
                         
                        Therefore: if there are no extra legs or changes to structure and the boards are all equivilent in size we can expect the Poplar fauld stool to support 70% of the load caried by the red oak before similar failure and have 115% of the flex. Obviously the legs will flex farther, changing the moment arms, affecting the loading and throwing the math all to hell. Western red cedar would be about 55% of load.
                         
                        To thicken the poplar for equivilent strength it is necessary to determine loading type, which is mostly bending and subject to the formula Stress = M*c/I where c = half the board thickness and I = width*height^3/12. A finished thickness of 7/8" is almost sufficient and a finished thickness of 1" is plenty.
                         
                        Thanks for giving me an excuse to be an engineer. :)
                         
                        Sean
                         
                        -------------- Original message --------------
                        Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing my rough cut stock to size.  With that capability in mind what would be a good thickness of poplar to do a faldstool in?
                         
                        Oh by the way: Hi everybody! I am new here and only so-so skilled with wood but very interested in medieval furniture and techniques.
                         
                        Jamie Blackrose
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                        Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 6:43 PM
                        To: sawdust
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                        I can't decide, but I know I have
                        a tendency to over build...

                        Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
                        stock without compromising the strength?

                        I've made one from red oak and these two
                        from white oak.... I just can't convince
                        myself one way or the other about trying
                        one in poplar...

                        Opinions?





                        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                           Aude Aliquid Dignum
                             ' Dare Something Worthy '


                                   
                        __________________________________
                        Do you Yahoo!?
                        Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                        http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                             http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/




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                      • James Winkler
                        HEY Jamie... welcome aboard - Chas. Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                          HEY Jamie...  welcome aboard -
                          Chas.
                           

                          Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing my rough cut stock to size.  With that capability in mind what would be a good thickness of poplar to do a faldstool in?
                           
                          Oh by the way: Hi everybody! I am new here and only so-so skilled with wood but very interested in medieval furniture and techniques.
                           
                          Jamie Blackrose
                        • Siegfried
                          ... What about Tulip popular, which I understand to be the standard popular that us in the mid-Atlantic get. Siegfried --
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                            > Wood ; Modulus of Rupture (lbs/in^2) ; Modulus of Elasticity (ksi)
                            > Red Oak ; 14,300 ; 1,800
                            > Poplar, yellow ; 10,100 ; 1,580
                            > Pine, Eastern White ; 8,600 ; 1,240
                            > Ceder, Western Red ; 7,500 ; 1,110

                            What about Tulip popular, which I understand to be the standard
                            popular that us in the mid-Atlantic get.

                            Siegfried

                            --
                            ___________________________________________________________________________
                            THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                            Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                            Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                            http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                          • Ralph Lindberg
                            ... I m afraid it s my fault, I told him about this Ralg AnTir _
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Schuster, Robert L."
                              <SchusterRL@u...> wrote:
                              > Damn Calontiri!
                              >
                              > Halv
                              >
                              I'm afraid it's my fault, I told him about this

                              Ralg
                              AnTir
                              _
                            • Avraham
                              Halvgrim just can t get away from me. :) Avraham
                              Message 14 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                                Halvgrim just can't get away from me. :)
                                Avraham

                                >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Schuster, Robert L."
                                ><SchusterRL@u...> wrote:
                                > > Damn Calontiri!
                                > >
                                > > Halv
                                > >
                                > I'm afraid it's my fault, I told him about this
                                >
                                >Ralg
                                >AnTir
                              • Trevor Payne
                                LOL, thought that was you, but I wasn t sure ;) Aiden ... From: Avraham Sent: May 5, 2005 8:34 AM To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Message 15 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                                  LOL, thought that was you, but I wasn't sure ;)

                                  Aiden

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Avraham <avraham@...>
                                  Sent: May 5, 2005 8:34 AM
                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                                  <html><body>


                                  <tt>
                                  Hey, Aiden, fancy seeing you here.<BR>
                                  Avraham<BR>
                                  <BR>
                                  >Is western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar?<BR>
                                  ><BR>
                                  >Aiden<BR>
                                  ><BR>
                                  ><BR>
                                  ><BR>
                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links<BR>
                                  ><BR>
                                  ><BR>
                                  ><BR>
                                  ><BR>
                                  <BR>
                                  </tt>

                                  <br><br>
                                  <tt>
                                  <br><br>



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                                • Steve Mercer
                                  ... For those people who read this group in digest mode, all attachments are stripped off. -- Steve Mercer mercer@winternet.com
                                  Message 16 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                                    >You "should" have gotten a picture attached - I didn't see it right
                                    >away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn't get it, or if you're
                                    >reading off the web, let me know and I'll forward the picture to you.

                                    For those people who read this group in digest mode, all attachments
                                    are stripped off.


                                    --
                                    Steve Mercer
                                    mercer@...
                                  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                    ... see attachment... Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo!
                                    Message 17 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                                      --- Avraham <avraham@...> wrote:
                                      > Um, make what?
                                      > Avraham
                                      > new to the group, not so much to woodworking
                                      >


                                      see attachment...

                                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                      ' Dare Something Worthy '



                                      __________________________________
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                                      Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                                    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                      ... I was looking for something to do with the scrap/off-fall shorts that I had collected and had just finshed the two in white oak. So the foldstol was near
                                      Message 18 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                                        --- Joseph Paul <josephnjody@...> wrote:
                                        > Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I
                                        > have been thinking on the
                                        > same subject but I have the luxury of planing my
                                        > rough cut stock to size.
                                        > With that capability in mind what would be a good
                                        > thickness of poplar to do
                                        > a faldstool in?


                                        I was looking for something to do with the
                                        scrap/off-fall shorts that I had collected
                                        and had just finshed the two in white oak.
                                        So the foldstol was near the top of my list
                                        of things I'm thinking aboput right now. I've
                                        got a few randon lenghts and widths that could
                                        easlily be cut down to the 1 1/2" stock I used
                                        for the whitew oak stools....


                                        Unless someone has another idea....

                                        So here's another question for the group.

                                        What do you do with 'scraps' that are
                                        too big to throw away, but not big enough
                                        for most projects?

                                        ( one can only wear so many pairs of
                                        pattens.... )


                                        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                        Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                        ' Dare Something Worthy '



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                                      • Chuck Phillips
                                        But it is a rather small world, after all. Particularly so when you have a subset like this. Charles Joiner Who can still remember most of Song of the Shield
                                        Message 19 of 23 , May 5, 2005
                                          But it is a rather small world, after all.  Particularly so when you have a subset like this.
                                           
                                          Charles Joiner
                                          Who can still remember most of "Song of the Shield Wall"...
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Avraham
                                          Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:35 AM
                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: could you would you

                                          Halvgrim just can't get away from me. :)
                                          Avraham

                                          >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Schuster, Robert L."
                                          ><SchusterRL@u...> wrote:
                                          > > Damn Calontiri!
                                          > >
                                          > > Halv
                                          > >
                                          >   I'm afraid it's my fault, I told him about this
                                          >
                                          >Ralg
                                          >AnTir



                                          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


                                        • ewdysar
                                          Actually Yahoo does strip the attachments. I only read these messages on the Yahoo group site and there s no picture or brief description of what you re
                                          Message 20 of 23 , May 6, 2005
                                            Actually Yahoo does strip the attachments. I only read these
                                            messages on the Yahoo group site and there's no picture or brief
                                            description of what you're talking about.

                                            Now for this particular question, I probably don't care. If anyone
                                            joined the group today or later and read the post on the board, they
                                            would not ever have any idea of what is being discussed.

                                            My guess is that you're trying to build an ark, the Noah's type, not
                                            the covenant type. I think that poplar would be OK because it only
                                            needs to hold up for a couple of months, but you're going to need
                                            alot of lumber... ;)

                                            Eric

                                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Avraham <avraham@e...> wrote:
                                            > Wolf,
                                            > Ah - down *below* all the yahoo ad stuff. I've never been on a
                                            list that
                                            > wasn't set to strip attachments before, now I know. Thanks!
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > >Avraham;
                                            > >
                                            > >You "should" have gotten a picture attached - I didn't see it right
                                            > >away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn't get it, or if
                                            you're
                                            > >reading off the web...
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Um, make what?
                                            > > > Avraham
                                            > > > new to the group, not so much to woodworking
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >I can't decide, but I know I have
                                            > > > >a tendency to over build...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
                                            > > > >stock without compromising the strength?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >I've made one from red oak and these two
                                            > > > >from white oak.... I just can't convince
                                            > > > >myself one way or the other about trying
                                            > > > >one in poplar...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Opinions?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                            > > > > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                                          • Lord Alessandro dEste
                                            ... Someone has another idea And That someone is me. LOL Everyweek here in sternfeld we have a meeting called Stuff and nonsence .Held at Master JP Devereaux
                                            Message 21 of 23 , May 10, 2005
                                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                              <baronconal@y...> wrote:
                                              > Unless someone has another idea....
                                              > So here's another question for the group.
                                              > What do you do with 'scraps' that are
                                              > too big to throw away, but not big enough
                                              > for most projects?
                                              >
                                              > ( one can only wear so many pairs of
                                              > pattens.... )
                                              > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                              Someone has another idea
                                              And That someone is me. LOL
                                              Everyweek here in sternfeld we have a meeting called"Stuff and
                                              nonsence".Held at Master JP Devereaux and Mistress Baroness Priscilla
                                              the Hun's home. We try to help others in the barony with what ever
                                              projects they are working on. What I and Master Devereaux do with are
                                              scraps is to bring them out and see if anyone needs them. But You now
                                              have given me a idea . Thank you Baron Conal. One can only wear so
                                              many pairs of pattens.But a barony can wear many. A group project that
                                              we are working on this would be a great addition too.
                                              IYS
                                              Lord Alessandro dEste
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