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could you would you

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  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
    I can t decide, but I know I have a tendency to over build... Could this be built from 3/4 poplar stock without compromising the strength? I ve made one from
    Message 1 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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      I can't decide, but I know I have
      a tendency to over build...

      Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
      stock without compromising the strength?

      I've made one from red oak and these two
      from white oak.... I just can't convince
      myself one way or the other about trying
      one in poplar...

      Opinions?





      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '



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    • Avraham
      Um, make what? Avraham new to the group, not so much to woodworking
      Message 2 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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        Um, make what?
        Avraham
        new to the group, not so much to woodworking

        >I can't decide, but I know I have
        >a tendency to over build...
        >
        >Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
        >stock without compromising the strength?
        >
        >I've made one from red oak and these two
        >from white oak.... I just can't convince
        >myself one way or the other about trying
        >one in poplar...
        >
        >Opinions?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
        >
        > Aude Aliquid Dignum
        > ' Dare Something Worthy '
      • celtwolf@okplus.com
        Avraham; You should have gotten a picture attached - I didn t see it right away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn t get it, or if you re reading
        Message 3 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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          Avraham;

          You "should" have gotten a picture attached - I didn't see it right
          away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn't get it, or if you're
          reading off the web, let me know and I'll forward the picture to you.

          Conal;

          Poplar vs. oak probably "would" compromise the strength somewhat, so the
          question would most likely be "could it compromise the strength
          _enough_". I'd guess that the engineering of the chair would be
          sufficient for "most" people. To be safe though, you could always try
          it with five or more slats per side.

          Personally, I would - if only to learn that it's not a good idea. If
          you're uncomfortable with the finished product, you could always specify
          it as a "child's only" chair.

          Wolf

          Avraham wrote:
          >
          > Um, make what?
          > Avraham
          > new to the group, not so much to woodworking
          >
          > >I can't decide, but I know I have
          > >a tendency to over build...
          > >
          > >Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
          > >stock without compromising the strength?
          > >
          > >I've made one from red oak and these two
          > >from white oak.... I just can't convince
          > >myself one way or the other about trying
          > >one in poplar...
          > >
          > >Opinions?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
          > >
          > > Aude Aliquid Dignum
          > > ' Dare Something Worthy '
        • Avraham
          Wolf, Ah - down *below* all the yahoo ad stuff. I ve never been on a list that wasn t set to strip attachments before, now I know. Thanks! Conal, Poplar
          Message 4 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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            Wolf,
            Ah - down *below* all the yahoo ad stuff. I've never been on a list that
            wasn't set to strip attachments before, now I know. Thanks!

            Conal,
            Poplar isn't *that* weak, I think it would work fine. Of course, you
            wouldn't want some of the larger folks in them, but sizing them
            appropriately should help that. :)
            Avraham


            >Avraham;
            >
            >You "should" have gotten a picture attached - I didn't see it right
            >away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn't get it, or if you're
            >reading off the web, let me know and I'll forward the picture to you.
            >
            >Conal;
            >
            >Poplar vs. oak probably "would" compromise the strength somewhat, so the
            >question would most likely be "could it compromise the strength
            >_enough_". I'd guess that the engineering of the chair would be
            >sufficient for "most" people. To be safe though, you could always try
            >it with five or more slats per side.
            >
            >Personally, I would - if only to learn that it's not a good idea. If
            >you're uncomfortable with the finished product, you could always specify
            >it as a "child's only" chair.
            >
            >Wolf
            >
            >Avraham wrote:
            > >
            > > Um, make what?
            > > Avraham
            > > new to the group, not so much to woodworking
            > >
            > > >I can't decide, but I know I have
            > > >a tendency to over build...
            > > >
            > > >Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
            > > >stock without compromising the strength?
            > > >
            > > >I've made one from red oak and these two
            > > >from white oak.... I just can't convince
            > > >myself one way or the other about trying
            > > >one in poplar...
            > > >
            > > >Opinions?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
            > > >
            > > > Aude Aliquid Dignum
            > > > ' Dare Something Worthy '
          • Joseph Hayes
            I always thought poplar was one of the softer hardwoods, but you should be OK. If I remember my American furniture history, it doesn t take a stain well and
            Message 5 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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              I always thought poplar was one of the softer hardwoods, but you should
              be OK. If I remember my American furniture history, it doesn't take a
              stain well and was often painted.

              My first fauldstuhl is made of 1x2 pine (sold as trim) and is sitting
              in my bathroom. I went 11 pieces deep so there's more "legs" to carry
              the weight.

              Ulrich


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            • Chuck Phillips
              Actually, you should be fine, strengthwise. Poplar is commonly used for framing in upholstered furniture, where it doesn t get seen. The problem you _will_
              Message 6 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                Actually, you should be fine, strengthwise.  Poplar is commonly used for framing in upholstered furniture, where it doesn't get seen.  The problem you _will_ encounter is that it just doesn't look as nice.  You may well run into areas that have a greenish tint, and the relative softness of the wood makes it difficult to get a smooth finish.  I always wind up with a bit of fuzziness on the first pass.
                 
                Charles Joiner
                Caid
                -----Original Message-----
                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:43 PM
                To: sawdust
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                I can't decide, but I know I have
                a tendency to over build...

                Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
                stock without compromising the strength?

                I've made one from red oak and these two
                from white oak.... I just can't convince
                myself one way or the other about trying
                one in poplar...

                Opinions?





                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                   Aude Aliquid Dignum
                     ' Dare Something Worthy '


                           
                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


              • James Winkler
                I agree with Charles Joiner... the first one of these I made was from 1 x 2 pine strips... is VERY light. The legs flex a bit when somebody of my delicate
                Message 7 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                  I agree with Charles Joiner...  the first one of these I made was from 1 x 2 pine strips...  is VERY light.  The legs flex a bit when somebody of my delicate size sits on it... but it was the first one I built... and m'Lady still uses it...  (3 legs each side... six seat boards...)
                   
                  Chas.
                   
                   
                • Trevor Payne
                  Is western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar? Aiden
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                    Is western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar?

                    Aiden
                  • Avraham
                    Hey, Aiden, fancy seeing you here. Avraham
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                      Hey, Aiden, fancy seeing you here.
                      Avraham

                      >Is western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar?
                      >
                      >Aiden
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Schuster, Robert L.
                      Damn Calontiri! Halv ________________________________ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Avraham Sent:
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                        Damn Calontiri!
                         
                        Halv
                         


                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Avraham
                        Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 8:34 AM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                        Hey, Aiden, fancy seeing you here.
                        Avraham

                        >Is
                        western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar?
                        >
                        >Aiden
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Yahoo! Groups
                        Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                             http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


                      • Joseph Paul
                        Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing my rough cut stock to size. With
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                          Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing my rough cut stock to size.  With that capability in mind what would be a good thickness of poplar to do a faldstool in?
                           
                          Oh by the way: Hi everybody! I am new here and only so-so skilled with wood but very interested in medieval furniture and techniques.
                           
                          Jamie Blackrose
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                          Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 6:43 PM
                          To: sawdust
                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                          I can't decide, but I know I have
                          a tendency to over build...

                          Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
                          stock without compromising the strength?

                          I've made one from red oak and these two
                          from white oak.... I just can't convince
                          myself one way or the other about trying
                          one in poplar...

                          Opinions?





                          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                             Aude Aliquid Dignum
                               ' Dare Something Worthy '


                                     
                          __________________________________
                          Do you Yahoo!?
                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                          http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


                          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


                        • powell.sean@comcast.net
                          Hello all, This is my first post here and hopefully I won t offend the more medievally minded of you by being a geek on my first post. From Marks Standard
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                            Hello all,
                            This is my first post here and hopefully I won't offend the more medievally minded of you by being a geek on my first post.
                             
                            From Marks Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers, Chapter 6, Table 6.7.2 Strengths and related properties of Wood...
                             
                            Wood ; Modulus of Rupture (lbs/in^2) ; Modulus of Elasticity (ksi)
                            Red Oak ; 14,300 ; 1,800
                            Poplar, yellow ; 10,100 ; 1,580
                            Pine, Eastern White ; 8,600 ; 1,240
                            Ceder, Western Red ; 7,500 ; 1,110
                             
                            Therefore: if there are no extra legs or changes to structure and the boards are all equivilent in size we can expect the Poplar fauld stool to support 70% of the load caried by the red oak before similar failure and have 115% of the flex. Obviously the legs will flex farther, changing the moment arms, affecting the loading and throwing the math all to hell. Western red cedar would be about 55% of load.
                             
                            To thicken the poplar for equivilent strength it is necessary to determine loading type, which is mostly bending and subject to the formula Stress = M*c/I where c = half the board thickness and I = width*height^3/12. A finished thickness of 7/8" is almost sufficient and a finished thickness of 1" is plenty.
                             
                            Thanks for giving me an excuse to be an engineer. :)
                             
                            Sean
                             
                            -------------- Original message --------------
                            Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing my rough cut stock to size.  With that capability in mind what would be a good thickness of poplar to do a faldstool in?
                             
                            Oh by the way: Hi everybody! I am new here and only so-so skilled with wood but very interested in medieval furniture and techniques.
                             
                            Jamie Blackrose
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                            Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 6:43 PM
                            To: sawdust
                            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                            I can't decide, but I know I have
                            a tendency to over build...

                            Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
                            stock without compromising the strength?

                            I've made one from red oak and these two
                            from white oak.... I just can't convince
                            myself one way or the other about trying
                            one in poplar...

                            Opinions?





                            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                               Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                 ' Dare Something Worthy '


                                       
                            __________________________________
                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                            http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


                            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/




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                          • James Winkler
                            HEY Jamie... welcome aboard - Chas. Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                              HEY Jamie...  welcome aboard -
                              Chas.
                               

                              Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I have been thinking on the same subject but I have the luxury of planing my rough cut stock to size.  With that capability in mind what would be a good thickness of poplar to do a faldstool in?
                               
                              Oh by the way: Hi everybody! I am new here and only so-so skilled with wood but very interested in medieval furniture and techniques.
                               
                              Jamie Blackrose
                            • Siegfried
                              ... What about Tulip popular, which I understand to be the standard popular that us in the mid-Atlantic get. Siegfried --
                              Message 14 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                                > Wood ; Modulus of Rupture (lbs/in^2) ; Modulus of Elasticity (ksi)
                                > Red Oak ; 14,300 ; 1,800
                                > Poplar, yellow ; 10,100 ; 1,580
                                > Pine, Eastern White ; 8,600 ; 1,240
                                > Ceder, Western Red ; 7,500 ; 1,110

                                What about Tulip popular, which I understand to be the standard
                                popular that us in the mid-Atlantic get.

                                Siegfried

                                --
                                ___________________________________________________________________________
                                THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                                Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                                Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
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                              • Ralph Lindberg
                                ... I m afraid it s my fault, I told him about this Ralg AnTir _
                                Message 15 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Schuster, Robert L."
                                  <SchusterRL@u...> wrote:
                                  > Damn Calontiri!
                                  >
                                  > Halv
                                  >
                                  I'm afraid it's my fault, I told him about this

                                  Ralg
                                  AnTir
                                  _
                                • Avraham
                                  Halvgrim just can t get away from me. :) Avraham
                                  Message 16 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                                    Halvgrim just can't get away from me. :)
                                    Avraham

                                    >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Schuster, Robert L."
                                    ><SchusterRL@u...> wrote:
                                    > > Damn Calontiri!
                                    > >
                                    > > Halv
                                    > >
                                    > I'm afraid it's my fault, I told him about this
                                    >
                                    >Ralg
                                    >AnTir
                                  • Trevor Payne
                                    LOL, thought that was you, but I wasn t sure ;) Aiden ... From: Avraham Sent: May 5, 2005 8:34 AM To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    Message 17 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                                      LOL, thought that was you, but I wasn't sure ;)

                                      Aiden

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Avraham <avraham@...>
                                      Sent: May 5, 2005 8:34 AM
                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] could you would you

                                      <html><body>


                                      <tt>
                                      Hey, Aiden, fancy seeing you here.<BR>
                                      Avraham<BR>
                                      <BR>
                                      >Is western Red Cedar softer and weaker than Poplar?<BR>
                                      ><BR>
                                      >Aiden<BR>
                                      ><BR>
                                      ><BR>
                                      ><BR>
                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links<BR>
                                      ><BR>
                                      ><BR>
                                      ><BR>
                                      ><BR>
                                      <BR>
                                      </tt>

                                      <br><br>
                                      <tt>
                                      <br><br>



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                                    • Steve Mercer
                                      ... For those people who read this group in digest mode, all attachments are stripped off. -- Steve Mercer mercer@winternet.com
                                      Message 18 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                                        >You "should" have gotten a picture attached - I didn't see it right
                                        >away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn't get it, or if you're
                                        >reading off the web, let me know and I'll forward the picture to you.

                                        For those people who read this group in digest mode, all attachments
                                        are stripped off.


                                        --
                                        Steve Mercer
                                        mercer@...
                                      • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                        ... see attachment... Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo!
                                        Message 19 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                                          --- Avraham <avraham@...> wrote:
                                          > Um, make what?
                                          > Avraham
                                          > new to the group, not so much to woodworking
                                          >


                                          see attachment...

                                          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                          Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                          ' Dare Something Worthy '



                                          __________________________________
                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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                                        • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                          ... I was looking for something to do with the scrap/off-fall shorts that I had collected and had just finshed the two in white oak. So the foldstol was near
                                          Message 20 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                                            --- Joseph Paul <josephnjody@...> wrote:
                                            > Interesting that you want to try this in poplar. I
                                            > have been thinking on the
                                            > same subject but I have the luxury of planing my
                                            > rough cut stock to size.
                                            > With that capability in mind what would be a good
                                            > thickness of poplar to do
                                            > a faldstool in?


                                            I was looking for something to do with the
                                            scrap/off-fall shorts that I had collected
                                            and had just finshed the two in white oak.
                                            So the foldstol was near the top of my list
                                            of things I'm thinking aboput right now. I've
                                            got a few randon lenghts and widths that could
                                            easlily be cut down to the 1 1/2" stock I used
                                            for the whitew oak stools....


                                            Unless someone has another idea....

                                            So here's another question for the group.

                                            What do you do with 'scraps' that are
                                            too big to throw away, but not big enough
                                            for most projects?

                                            ( one can only wear so many pairs of
                                            pattens.... )


                                            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                            Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                            ' Dare Something Worthy '



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                                          • Chuck Phillips
                                            But it is a rather small world, after all. Particularly so when you have a subset like this. Charles Joiner Who can still remember most of Song of the Shield
                                            Message 21 of 23 , May 5, 2005
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                                              But it is a rather small world, after all.  Particularly so when you have a subset like this.
                                               
                                              Charles Joiner
                                              Who can still remember most of "Song of the Shield Wall"...
                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Avraham
                                              Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:35 AM
                                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: could you would you

                                              Halvgrim just can't get away from me. :)
                                              Avraham

                                              >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Schuster, Robert L."
                                              ><SchusterRL@u...> wrote:
                                              > > Damn Calontiri!
                                              > >
                                              > > Halv
                                              > >
                                              >   I'm afraid it's my fault, I told him about this
                                              >
                                              >Ralg
                                              >AnTir



                                              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/


                                            • ewdysar
                                              Actually Yahoo does strip the attachments. I only read these messages on the Yahoo group site and there s no picture or brief description of what you re
                                              Message 22 of 23 , May 6, 2005
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                                                Actually Yahoo does strip the attachments. I only read these
                                                messages on the Yahoo group site and there's no picture or brief
                                                description of what you're talking about.

                                                Now for this particular question, I probably don't care. If anyone
                                                joined the group today or later and read the post on the board, they
                                                would not ever have any idea of what is being discussed.

                                                My guess is that you're trying to build an ark, the Noah's type, not
                                                the covenant type. I think that poplar would be OK because it only
                                                needs to hold up for a couple of months, but you're going to need
                                                alot of lumber... ;)

                                                Eric

                                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Avraham <avraham@e...> wrote:
                                                > Wolf,
                                                > Ah - down *below* all the yahoo ad stuff. I've never been on a
                                                list that
                                                > wasn't set to strip attachments before, now I know. Thanks!
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > >Avraham;
                                                > >
                                                > >You "should" have gotten a picture attached - I didn't see it right
                                                > >away, but scrolling down showed it. If you didn't get it, or if
                                                you're
                                                > >reading off the web...
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Um, make what?
                                                > > > Avraham
                                                > > > new to the group, not so much to woodworking
                                                > > >
                                                > > > >I can't decide, but I know I have
                                                > > > >a tendency to over build...
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >Could this be built from 3/4 poplar
                                                > > > >stock without compromising the strength?
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >I've made one from red oak and these two
                                                > > > >from white oak.... I just can't convince
                                                > > > >myself one way or the other about trying
                                                > > > >one in poplar...
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >Opinions?
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                                > > > > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                                              • Lord Alessandro dEste
                                                ... Someone has another idea And That someone is me. LOL Everyweek here in sternfeld we have a meeting called Stuff and nonsence .Held at Master JP Devereaux
                                                Message 23 of 23 , May 10, 2005
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                                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                                  <baronconal@y...> wrote:
                                                  > Unless someone has another idea....
                                                  > So here's another question for the group.
                                                  > What do you do with 'scraps' that are
                                                  > too big to throw away, but not big enough
                                                  > for most projects?
                                                  >
                                                  > ( one can only wear so many pairs of
                                                  > pattens.... )
                                                  > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                                  Someone has another idea
                                                  And That someone is me. LOL
                                                  Everyweek here in sternfeld we have a meeting called"Stuff and
                                                  nonsence".Held at Master JP Devereaux and Mistress Baroness Priscilla
                                                  the Hun's home. We try to help others in the barony with what ever
                                                  projects they are working on. What I and Master Devereaux do with are
                                                  scraps is to bring them out and see if anyone needs them. But You now
                                                  have given me a idea . Thank you Baron Conal. One can only wear so
                                                  many pairs of pattens.But a barony can wear many. A group project that
                                                  we are working on this would be a great addition too.
                                                  IYS
                                                  Lord Alessandro dEste
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