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Re: [MedievalSawdust] RE: rebuilding the workshop

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  • Dan Baker
    As far as a jointer, Hawk Woodworking makes a Jointability which will do most of the work for very little money. $349 for the 8 foot model. Joints with a
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 8, 2005
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      As far as a jointer, Hawk Woodworking makes a "Jointability" which
      will do most of the work for very little money. $349 for the 8 foot
      model. Joints with a router. I am thinking about buying one.

      Even cheaper, I have an 8 foot long sled with a straight edge for my
      table saw for jointing a straight edge on rough lumber. Works just
      fine, cost? some scrap wood and a couple of hold downs, about $15
      bucks. I haven't used the jointer in a long long time, the sled does
      a better job one straightening cuts due to its length. But it can't
      do the final clean up cuts that a jointer can do.

      Table saw, buy top of the line (within the limits of your budget). It
      is cheaper to buy the higher quality one then to buy the cheap one and
      not be happy with it. This is true of most tools. I have a Jet and I
      am happy with it. I have heard a lot of good stuff about Grizzly,
      some day I'll have to buy one.

      My Ryobi AP12 is a decent, not great planer, but I don't think they
      make the AP10 or AP12 anymore. I have only had to replace a belt once
      in 5 years for maintainence a (and a few blades). That was because I
      screwed up, not the machine. but, for quality If I had the money I
      would get a spiral blade planer or one of the new carbide cutter
      planers. The carbide ones have dozens of small 4 sided cutters and
      when they get dull, you rotate them, you only replace them after using
      all 4 sides.


      -Rhys

      On Apr 8, 2005 5:28 PM, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > --- Avery Austringer <avery1415@...> wrote:
      > > Be careful on the "entry level" table saw - a lot of
      > > times the low end table saws are less acurate than a
      > > circular saw, a straight edge and two clamps. I
      > > used
      > > a Delta contractors saw for a while and didn't have
      > > too many complaints, but would recomend getting a
      > > package with a higher end fence.
      > >
      >
      > Stay far away from delta's 'entry' level
      > saws....
      >
      > they are best used as landfill...
      >
      > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
      >
      > Aude Aliquid Dignum
      > ' Dare Something Worthy '
      >
      >
      > __________________________________
      > Yahoo! Messenger
      > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
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      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      -Rhys
    • Arthur Slaughter
      Our landfill won t take em Finn ... _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 8, 2005
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        Our landfill won't take em
        Finn

        >From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...>
        >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        >To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] RE: rebuilding the workshop
        >Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
        >
        >
        >--- Avery Austringer <avery1415@...> wrote:
        > > Be careful on the "entry level" table saw - a lot of
        > > times the low end table saws are less acurate than a
        > > circular saw, a straight edge and two clamps. I
        > > used
        > > a Delta contractors saw for a while and didn't have
        > > too many complaints, but would recomend getting a
        > > package with a higher end fence.
        > >
        >
        >Stay far away from delta's 'entry' level
        >saws....
        >
        > they are best used as landfill...
        >
        >
        >
        >Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
        >
        > Aude Aliquid Dignum
        > ' Dare Something Worthy '
        >
        >
        >
        >__________________________________
        >Yahoo! Messenger
        >Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
        >http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest

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      • toomuch87505
        Not that being a girl has anything to do with having a workshop, BUT, when I started purchasing tools for woodworking, I went out and bought everything I
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 8, 2005
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          Not that being a girl has anything to do with having a workshop,
          BUT, when I started purchasing tools for woodworking, I went out and
          bought everything I thought I needed. I do have a very nice table
          saw, grinder, router and router table, two circular saws and
          something called a all-in-one cutting tool that I have not used yet
          due to lack of knowledge.

          I am able to do just about anything I need to do with a jig saw,
          reversible drill, palm sander a dremel, assorted hand tools, saw,
          hammer, chisel set and clamps. The rest of the tools will have to
          sit there until I take a woodworking class and find out how to use
          them.

          Theresa

          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Talmoor" <talmoor@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I am looking at re stocking my tools. for a few reasons all of my
          tools
          > are gone and I am working from scratch. What have you all found
          usefull
          > or essential in the shop? I am looking at hobby and around the
          house
          > projects. Gear for my encampment and personal enjoyment. My
          current
          > list is an entry level table saw, a 12" drill press with mortise
          > attachemnt, a plunge router, a hand held jigsaw, a palm sander,
          and an
          > assortment of clamps, bits, and blades. Any suggestions or
          thoughts?
          >
          > Alasdair
        • Ralph Lindberg
          ... I have a lot of faith in the quality per dollar in Griz. Next is probably a large Grizzly lathe Ralg
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 8, 2005
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            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Dan Baker <LordRhys@g...> wrote:
            ...
            > am happy with it. I have heard a lot of good stuff about Grizzly,
            > some day I'll have to buy one.
            >
            I have a lot of faith in the quality per dollar in Griz. Next is
            probably a large Grizzly lathe

            Ralg
          • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            ... The rest of the ... Don t waste money buying tools you don t know how to use, unless you have a specific plan for learning or a specific use for them that
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 9, 2005
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              --- toomuch87505 <too_be_free@...> wrote:
              >
              The rest of the
              > tools will have to
              > sit there until I take a woodworking class and find
              > out how to use
              > them.
              >
              > Theresa>


              Don't waste money buying tools you
              don't know how to use, unless you
              have a specific plan for learning
              or a specific use for them that some
              other tool you already have cannot do.

              But expand your tools and learn your skills
              at the same time....It's the 'waste'
              part that is important to stay in control of.


              ( who advised you to get the
              'all in one' cutting tool?...
              just curious... )

              You end up with enough tools that
              you thought would be useful at the
              time without effort anyway.

              There is a magazine called Woodsmith
              ( I think ) that has a series of projects,
              each a little bigger than the previous one,
              than build on the techniques from the previous
              project. While I don't always like the
              projects they pick, I like the way that
              they group them together.



              Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

              Aude Aliquid Dignum
              ' Dare Something Worthy '



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            • Tim Bray
              Following up on what Conal said - a really good way to approach this is to start with the first project on your list, or the first three, or whatever; figure
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 9, 2005
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                Following up on what Conal said - a really good way to approach this is to start with the first project on your list, or the first three, or whatever; figure out what tools you need for those specific projects, and buy them.  Build the projects.  Then go on to the next project.  Buy tools as you need them, rather than buying tools and then figuring out what to do with them.

                The first thing you will need is a bench; the most essential tool in the shop.

                I would urge you to consider starting with hand tools and adding power tools only as needed to speed up certain tasks.   If this is a hobby, you may find you do not need the power tools after all, and you won't miss the howling racket or the unhealthy dust.   Hand saws, planes, chisels, a brace and spoon bits, some clamps, and you are ready to start building medieval furniture.  Hand planing is a hell of a lot more fun than using a power jointer and planer, and for one-off projects it is probably no slower once you get the hang of it. 

                Once you make the leap to power tools, be sure to include dust collection.  There's no reason to spew that damn dust all over everything any more; effective dust collection is cheap now.  Less than $200 gets you a 1HP roll-around DC with 1 micron filter bags (very important), good enough to start with.  I can't emphasize this enough - get a dust collector, and use it!   Don't buy any random-orbit sander without built-in dust collection (the Bosch cartridge system seems to work the best), and consider making yourself a downdraft sanding table anyway.  ROSs create a lot of very fine dust that goes deep into your lungs; apart from the cancer risk, many people are developing severe allergies and have to quit woodworking as a result.  This is avoidable!

                Cheers,
                Colin


                Albion Works
                Furniture and Accessories
                For the Medievalist!
              • toomuch87505
                I did buy these tools with specific projects in mind. However, when I set them up in my workshop, I couldn t figure out how to put in a blade or how to guide
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 9, 2005
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                  I did buy these tools with specific projects in mind. However, when
                  I set them up in my workshop, I couldn't figure out how to put in a
                  blade or how to guide a router. They are sitting there as are the
                  projects I wanted to make as well.

                  I would rather have them sit there until I am able to safely use
                  them, then to try to figure them out and lose a finger or an eye.

                  I do use my jig saw, drill and sander regularly and have made
                  several break down chairs, tables and chests. All I really need is
                  some instructions on the rest of the tools and I should be ok.


                  Theresa

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Tim Bray <tbray@m...> wrote:
                  > Following up on what Conal said - a really good way to approach
                  this is to
                  > start with the first project on your list, or the first three, or
                  whatever;
                  > figure out what tools you need for those specific projects, and
                  buy
                  > them. Build the projects. Then go on to the next project. Buy
                  tools as
                  > you need them, rather than buying tools and then figuring out what
                  to do
                  > with them.
                  >
                  > The first thing you will need is a bench; the most essential tool
                  in the shop.
                  >
                  > I would urge you to consider starting with hand tools and adding
                  power
                  > tools only as needed to speed up certain tasks. If this is a
                  hobby, you
                  > may find you do not need the power tools after all, and you won't
                  miss the
                  > howling racket or the unhealthy dust. Hand saws, planes,
                  chisels, a brace
                  > and spoon bits, some clamps, and you are ready to start building
                  medieval
                  > furniture. Hand planing is a hell of a lot more fun than using a
                  power
                  > jointer and planer, and for one-off projects it is probably no
                  slower once
                  > you get the hang of it.
                  >
                  > Once you make the leap to power tools, be sure to include dust
                  > collection. There's no reason to spew that damn dust all over
                  everything
                  > any more; effective dust collection is cheap now. Less than $200
                  gets you
                  > a 1HP roll-around DC with 1 micron filter bags (very important),
                  good
                  > enough to start with. I can't emphasize this enough - get a dust
                  > collector, and use it! Don't buy any random-orbit sander without
                  built-in
                  > dust collection (the Bosch cartridge system seems to work the
                  best), and
                  > consider making yourself a downdraft sanding table anyway. ROSs
                  create a
                  > lot of very fine dust that goes deep into your lungs; apart from
                  the cancer
                  > risk, many people are developing severe allergies and have to quit
                  > woodworking as a result. This is avoidable!
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > Colin
                  >
                  >
                  > Albion Works
                  > Furniture and Accessories
                  > For the Medievalist!
                  > http://www.albionworks.net
                  > http://www.albionworks.com
                • Tim Bray
                  Theresa, my message was actually directed toward Alasdair, who started this thread. Sorry, I should have made that clear! You should be able to find
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 9, 2005
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                    Theresa, my message was actually directed toward Alasdair, who started this thread.  Sorry, I should have made that clear!

                    You should be able to find instruction for your tools in a number of places:

                    1.  The owner's manual is the first place to look.  But often these are either inadequate, or missing, so...
                    2.  There are any number of after-market books on table saws and routers.  Some of them are better than others.  Try looking through the Amazon reviews to see which are recommended.
                    3.  Likewise there are quite a number of videos available now.
                    4.  Ideally, you might be able to take a class or attend a workshop in your area.  Woodcraft stores, community colleges, and arts centers are good places to look.

                    You are certainly wise to be cautious; table saws and routers are very dangerous tools if used incorrectly.  I was very lucky when I started using these tools - my mistakes did not cause serious injuries, but made me stop and think. 

                    Cheers,
                    Colin


                    Albion Works
                    Furniture and Accessories
                    For the Medievalist!
                  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                    Of the injuries I have seen on wood workers... the table saw and shaper(router mounted in a table) took parts off that never grew back!! James Cunningham Who
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 9, 2005
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                      Of the injuries I have seen on wood workers... the table saw and shaper(router mounted in a table) took parts off that never grew back!!
                       
                      James Cunningham
                      Who has scarres and scares

                      You are certainly wise to be cautious; table saws and routers are very dangerous tools if used incorrectly.  I was very lucky when I started using these tools - my mistakes did not cause serious injuries, but made me stop and think. 
                    • John LaTorre
                      ... There used to be a guy on the internet who had copies of many out-of-production power tools, and he would copy them off for you for pretty much the cost of
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 10, 2005
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                        Sir Colin wrote:

                        > You should be able to find instruction for your tools in a number
                        > of places:
                        >
                        > 1. The owner's manual is the first place to look. But often these are
                        > either inadequate, or missing, so...

                        There used to be a guy on the internet who had copies of many
                        out-of-production power tools, and he would copy them off for you for pretty
                        much the cost of copying and postage. If anybody's interested, I'll see if I
                        can track him down again.

                        Baron Johann von Drachenfels (John LaTorre)

                        >
                      • Arthur Slaughter
                        If it s not too much trouble. I surely would be interestted having inherited several older tools lacking manuals. Finn ...
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 10, 2005
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                          If it's not too much trouble. I surely would be interestted having inherited
                          several older tools lacking manuals.
                          Finn

                          >From: "John LaTorre" <jlatorre@...>
                          >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] RE: rebuilding the workshop
                          >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:38:19 -0700
                          >
                          >Sir Colin wrote:
                          >
                          > > You should be able to find instruction for your tools in a number
                          > > of places:
                          > >
                          > > 1. The owner's manual is the first place to look. But often these are
                          > > either inadequate, or missing, so...
                          >
                          >There used to be a guy on the internet who had copies of many
                          >out-of-production power tools, and he would copy them off for you for
                          >pretty
                          >much the cost of copying and postage. If anybody's interested, I'll see if
                          >I
                          >can track him down again.
                          >
                          >Baron Johann von Drachenfels (John LaTorre)
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          >

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                        • Ralph Lindberg
                          ... everything ... gets you ... built-in ... and ... create a ... cancer ... Excellent advise. I have a small Delta two-stage, with a large hood. The hood goes
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 11, 2005
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                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Tim Bray <tbray@m...> wrote:
                            >

                            > Once you make the leap to power tools, be sure to include dust
                            > collection. There's no reason to spew that damn dust all over
                            everything
                            > any more; effective dust collection is cheap now. Less than $200
                            gets you
                            > a 1HP roll-around DC with 1 micron filter bags (very important), good
                            > enough to start with. I can't emphasize this enough - get a dust
                            > collector, and use it! Don't buy any random-orbit sander without
                            built-in
                            > dust collection (the Bosch cartridge system seems to work the best),
                            and
                            > consider making yourself a downdraft sanding table anyway. ROSs
                            create a
                            > lot of very fine dust that goes deep into your lungs; apart from the
                            cancer
                            > risk, many people are developing severe allergies and have to quit
                            > woodworking as a result. This is avoidable!
                            >
                            Excellent advise. I have a small Delta two-stage, with a large hood.
                            The hood goes next to the sanding station, or the lathe, or... and
                            almost all that dust goes straight in.
                            However, I find the table-saw doesn't collect as well, so I also
                            have a whole-shop air-filter (Delta, but that's just cause it was on
                            sale).
                            Dust==bad

                            TTFN
                            Ralg
                            AnTir
                          • Ralph Lindberg
                            I just recalled the following shop lay-out tool from the Grizzly web-site. It only has generic objects (benchs, etc) and Grizzly tools. But since most Grizzly
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 11, 2005
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                              I just recalled the following shop lay-out tool from the Grizzly
                              web-site. It only has generic objects (benchs, etc) and Grizzly tools.
                              But since most Grizzly tools have the same foot-print as most
                              Delta/Jet/etc tools. It still works

                              Enjoy
                              http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.cfm?

                              TTFN
                              Ralg
                              AnTir
                            • John LaTorre
                              ... Well, I can t find that information anymore, but here s a link that may help: http://www.oldwwmachines.com/ --Johann
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 11, 2005
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                                Finn wrote:

                                >
                                > If it's not too much trouble. I surely would be interestted
                                > having inherited
                                > several older tools lacking manuals.

                                Well, I can't find that information anymore, but here's a link that may
                                help:

                                http://www.oldwwmachines.com/

                                --Johann
                              • Arthur Slaughter
                                My thanks for your efforts. I can definately use the site you posted. Finn Mac Art ... _________________________________________________________________
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 11, 2005
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                                  My thanks for your efforts. I can definately use the site you posted.
                                  Finn Mac Art

                                  >From: "John LaTorre" <jlatorre@...>
                                  >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                  >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] RE: rebuilding the workshop
                                  >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:35:56 -0700
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Finn wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > If it's not too much trouble. I surely would be interestted
                                  > > having inherited
                                  > > several older tools lacking manuals.
                                  >
                                  >Well, I can't find that information anymore, but here's a link that may
                                  >help:
                                  >
                                  >http://www.oldwwmachines.com/
                                  >
                                  >--Johann
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

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                                • Bill McNutt
                                  Harken, hear, and heed. If it is lore of old power tools ye need, I can direct ye. But beware, for this way lies danger. The gentles I am sending you to have
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 17, 2005
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                                    Harken, hear, and heed.

                                    If it is lore of old power tools ye need, I can direct ye.

                                    But beware, for this way lies danger. The gentles I am sending you to
                                    have lost their way.

                                    They used to be woodworkers, but the passion for "old arn" bites without
                                    warning, and bites deep. Oh, certes, occasionally one of these lads will
                                    remember why we MAKE sawdust, and will turn out a decent piece, but they
                                    are far happier re-wiring switches and restoring old equipment.

                                    They were very helpful to me in getting an old 6" jointer back into
                                    working order not too far back. And I'm looking at re-wiring my wife's
                                    grandfather's industrial Tannewitz bandsaw.

                                    But I can quit any time I want.

                                    Hie thee to www.owwm.com. They call this the Mothersite, wherein old
                                    manuals are scanned and stored. It's open to the public at no cost.
                                    You can also join the discussion list.

                                    Just don't say I didn't warn you.

                                    Master Will
                                    http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Arthur Slaughter [mailto:finnmacart@...]
                                    Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:12 PM
                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] RE: rebuilding the workshop


                                    If it's not too much trouble. I surely would be interestted having
                                    inherited
                                    several older tools lacking manuals.
                                    Finn

                                    >From: "John LaTorre" <jlatorre@...>
                                    >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] RE: rebuilding the workshop
                                    >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:38:19 -0700
                                    >
                                    >Sir Colin wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > You should be able to find instruction for your tools in a number
                                    > > of places:
                                    > >
                                    > > 1. The owner's manual is the first place to look. But often these
                                    are
                                    > > either inadequate, or missing, so...
                                    >
                                    >There used to be a guy on the internet who had copies of many
                                    >out-of-production power tools, and he would copy them off for you for
                                    >pretty
                                    >much the cost of copying and postage. If anybody's interested, I'll see
                                    if
                                    >I
                                    >can track him down again.
                                    >
                                    >Baron Johann von Drachenfels (John LaTorre)
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >

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                                  • Arthur Slaughter
                                    Most Kind and Generous Master Will. Thanks from teh bottom of my pillaging viking heart! THL Finn Mac Art In Service to the Griffon ...
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 17, 2005
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                                      Most Kind and Generous Master Will.
                                      Thanks from teh bottom of my pillaging viking heart!
                                      THL Finn Mac Art
                                      In Service to the Griffon

                                      >From: "Bill McNutt" <mcnutt@...>
                                      >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] RE: rebuilding the workshop
                                      >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:33:06 -0400
                                      >
                                      >Harken, hear, and heed.
                                      >
                                      >If it is lore of old power tools ye need, I can direct ye.
                                      >
                                      >But beware, for this way lies danger. The gentles I am sending you to
                                      >have lost their way.
                                      >
                                      >They used to be woodworkers, but the passion for "old arn" bites without
                                      >warning, and bites deep. Oh, certes, occasionally one of these lads will
                                      >remember why we MAKE sawdust, and will turn out a decent piece, but they
                                      >are far happier re-wiring switches and restoring old equipment.
                                      >
                                      >They were very helpful to me in getting an old 6" jointer back into
                                      >working order not too far back. And I'm looking at re-wiring my wife's
                                      >grandfather's industrial Tannewitz bandsaw.
                                      >
                                      >But I can quit any time I want.
                                      >
                                      >Hie thee to www.owwm.com. They call this the Mothersite, wherein old
                                      >manuals are scanned and stored. It's open to the public at no cost.
                                      >You can also join the discussion list.
                                      >
                                      >Just don't say I didn't warn you.
                                      >
                                      >Master Will
                                      >http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood
                                      >
                                      >

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                                    • paul
                                      While I love old power tools, My newest toy is an old hand crank drill press, I just need to find a post to mount it on. My blacksmiting buddy from down the
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 22, 2005
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                                        While I love old power tools, My newest toy is an old hand crank drill
                                        press, I just need to find a post to mount it on. My blacksmiting buddy
                                        from down the block keeps offering to let me put it up in her forge room
                                        but somehow I just don't trust her.

                                        Paul

                                        Bill McNutt wrote:

                                        >Harken, hear, and heed.
                                        >
                                        >If it is lore of old power tools ye need, I can direct ye.
                                        >
                                        >But beware, for this way lies danger. The gentles I am sending you to
                                        >have lost their way.
                                        >
                                        >They used to be woodworkers, but the passion for "old arn" bites without
                                        >warning, and bites deep. Oh, certes, occasionally one of these lads will
                                        >remember why we MAKE sawdust, and will turn out a decent piece, but they
                                        >are far happier re-wiring switches and restoring old equipment.
                                        >
                                        >They were very helpful to me in getting an old 6" jointer back into
                                        >working order not too far back. And I'm looking at re-wiring my wife's
                                        >grandfather's industrial Tannewitz bandsaw.
                                        >
                                        >But I can quit any time I want.
                                        >
                                        >Hie thee to www.owwm.com. They call this the Mothersite, wherein old
                                        >manuals are scanned and stored. It's open to the public at no cost.
                                        >You can also join the discussion list.
                                        >
                                        >Just don't say I didn't warn you.
                                        >
                                        >Master Will
                                        >http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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