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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Newbie looking for a clue

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  • James Winkler
    ... I was with you to this point... I am not sure they were rechucked in the viking age. The extant examples I have seen all seem to show the same ovaling that
    Message 1 of 66 , Feb 1, 2005

      On Tue, February 1, 2005 0:17, James Winkler said:
      >
      ;-[)   We're a pretty easy goin' bunch...  never knew any body here to
      > take offense at a good opinion...
      >
      > I'm thinkin'
      you may have a point...  lathe turned bowls were started
      > green (or
      'green-ish'... turned with a core on the inside and...
      > apparently set
      aside for a while to season out a bit once the walls of the
      > bowl/cup
      were started...  after the moisture was lowered they were
      >
      re-chucked and finish turned...

      I was with you to this point... I am not sure they were rechucked in the
      viking age. The extant examples I have seen all seem to show the same
      ovaling that our pieces that were finish turned in the green have shown.
      Very green works while  greenish is very difficult to work.  Given that a
      bowl or cup will oval, I am unsure how the piece would be rechucked. Also,
      the cores and the mandrels found in the viking age show a method to attach
      the wood that doesn't lend itself to rechucking.
      Ah... but if you'll note, I said the moisture was 'lowered'... not stabilized... there's also issues with the conditions the bowl was preserved in over time...  wood cups are interesting... if ya' wanna' have some fun (and ruin a wooden cup...) turn one on the lathe and... after its set for a week or so...  pour it full of scotch...    The cup will 'drink' more of it than you will... and will probably split in two or three places... even if you've followed every rule for selecting the same grain orientation of your piece.
       
      For more information (even 'Viking age'...) check out The Archaeology of York's book "Small Finds: Wooden Objects in Anglo-Scandinavian York")...  there are bowls with lids...  lids with rims...  to make this fit you need roundness... (unless, of course they figured out how to control shrinkage so that everything matched up.
       
      I think they did turn round... I think that was their aim...  if some ovaled out... then some ovaled out... 
       
      "Rechucking" on a springpole lathe isn't any big deal... your rough bowl has a 'core' on the inside that allows a continuous center from the base through the top of the core...  and the above referenced book mentions finding partially turned bowls with cores attached. 
       
      While you're right that green turns easy... its also very unstable...  one of the normal rules of thumb for modern turning of green wood is to leave a wall thickness .1" wide for every inch of diameter of the object you're turning...  (for thin wall finals...)...  so, a 10" diameter bowl would have a 'rough turn' wall 1" thick...  let it sit for a week or two to stabilize and reduce the moisture and then rechuck and turn final.  Just as in medieval times... green still turns easier than dry... but if you want a round bowl and not an oval one... this is the easiest way to go about it without having to completely turn down a dry block...
       
      Chas.
       
      ... and Colin's point is very well taken...  using green planks would be very tricky... I really can't picture anybody building a chest with green planks...  the risk of splitting, checking and twisting is just way too great...  why put all that work into something and then sit back and see if mother nature elects to let you keep it by NOT blowing it up for you...
       
       
    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
      Shoes!!! wood shoe soles?!! did you see any shoes? Were they all turn shoe ? James Cunningham Slipper Maker
      Message 66 of 66 , Feb 5, 2005
        Shoes!!! wood shoe soles?!! did you see any shoes? Were they all turn shoe
        ?

        James Cunningham
        Slipper Maker

        >
        > oooh! oooh! story time! yea!
        >
        > I had to wear gloves....
        >
        > But I got to hold six different English
        > pattens this past spring at the Museum of
        > London..... THAT was cool!
        >
        >
        > --- Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Ok, stories . . .
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Last time I was at the Cloisters Annex of the Met in
        > > NYC I did it in
        > > garb. The Cloisters is FULL of great photo ops.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I mentioned to the guard that I hoped we hadn't
        > > caused too much concern.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The response:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ""Oh, 'you people' are never any trouble at all.
        > > It's the kids."
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > "We people?'
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Heh. (That was shortly after I flung myself between
        > > a kid with a sticky
        > > lollipop and the Merode Altarpiece.)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Master Will
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: James Winkler [mailto:jrwinkler@...]
        > > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 12:47 PM
        > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Green vs. dry (was:
        > > Re: Newbie looking
        > > for a clue
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Oh wow... I'm thinkin' this may be another
        > > 'woodworker trait'...
        > > m'Lady and I did the same thing at the Toledo Museum
        > > (... a cantilevered
        > > table...)... we got lucky... the guards found it
        > > 'amusing'...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I've also been known to crawl under cool benches at
        > > restaurants...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Favorite story... there's this spiffy chest (with a
        > > woodburnt design on
        > > the front) at the Indianapolis Art musueum... First
        > > time I saw it I was
        > > overwhelmed... I sat down and started to examine it
        > > 'closely'... I
        > > didn't TOUCH anything... just was kinda'...
        > > *close*... soon I heard
        > > footsteps... I turned around and there was this very
        > > long legged,
        > > red-headed lady guard... she just watched.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I decided to let her know my interests and assure
        > > her that I meant no
        > > evil to the artifact under study... She seemed
        > > comforted and mentioned
        > > that they had observed me looking (but not touching)
        > > on the security
        > > camera. After a couple of minutes of chat she
        > > wandered off and I went
        > > back to my stuidies...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ... a year later I found myself back at the
        > > museum... but this time with
        > > a notebook to make some sketches in... sitting on
        > > the floor *closely*
        > > examining the chest. I heard footsteps... I turned
        > > around... there was
        > > this long-legged, red-headed lady guard...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ... she looked at me and said, "Oh... its you."...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Ya' gotta' love it...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Chas.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > =============================
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Heh, been to the museum, done that. Got asked not
        > > to by guard.
        > >
        > > Master Will
        > >
        > > I guess the only other way is to lie down on the
        > > floor and look up at
        > > the thing, noting where the rail meets the stile.
        > >
        > > --
        > > -Chris Schwartz
        > > Silver Spring, MD
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > _____
        > >
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        > >
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        >
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        >
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        > ' Dare Something Worthy '
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