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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Chair Tables

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  • James Winkler
    I tend to agree with Ulrich... Now, given that there are certain perspective issues with the Campin painting there are a couple of other clues... if you look
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 6, 2005
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      I tend to agree with Ulrich... 
       
      Now, given that there are certain perspective issues with the Campin painting there are a couple of other clues...  if you look at the settle that Mary is leaning against... the height of the back is roughly double the seat height (from the foot rest).  Assuming a low seat height of 16" that would put the back at 32"...  the table top is 'roughly' at the same level as the back of the settle... so, *if* a seat was present it looks like it would have to fit fairly close to the table top... and that would be a bit high...  I can't see anything in the painting that suggests a seat lower than that.
       
      One other point... besides the legs being asymmetrical, take a look at the feet.  It *appears* that they are also asymmetrical.  Longer on the side the angle is on and truncated on the side Mary is on...  this would suggest to me that what we're looking at is a 'tilt top' table that is designed to be placed against a wall when not in use (saving space)... but, like Ulrich, I'm not sure it’s a 'chair table'...
       
      ... its still a darned cool piece though.  Would look cool reproduced...
       
      Chas.


      I see the table legs are asymmetrical in their decoration, but I'm not
      sure if that's a chair table.

      Ulrich

      > Check out this link:
      > http://www.peartree12.freeserve.co.uk/gallery/campin_merode.html
      > Campin is mid 15th C.
      >
      > > Does anyone know of any pre-1600 examples,
      > > either pictures of extant pieces or period artwork?

    • Johann Friedrich
      This page is the one I used as an inspiration for a settle table. I still havn t built the real one, but my mock-up made from mdf, 1x pine, and some pallet
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 6, 2005
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        This page is the one I used as an inspiration for a settle table. I still
        havn't built the real one, but my mock-up made from mdf, 1x pine, and some
        pallet material has been used as a work table in my house for quite a few
        months now. The documentation shows it to be from 1580

        http://shadowlands.ansteorra.org/shadow/mar2002/Settle/settle-toc.html

        On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Joseph Hayes wrote:

        > Hi all,
        >
        > I'm thinking about building a chair table (a chair with a back that
        > pivots in the rear of the armrest to become a table).
        >
        > "Oak Furniture: The British Tradition" by Chinnery lists them in 16th
        > century inventories, but only has pictures of 17th century versions.
        >
        > I'm doing this as a challenge from my Laurel, but who knows, it may
        > turn into an A&S project. Does anyone know of any pre-1600 examples,
        > either pictures of extant pieces or period artwork?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Ulrich

        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[The Realm of Darkness]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= O-
        Ken Bowley yahoo@...
        AKA: Lord Johann Friedrich http://www.trod.org
        -=-=-=-=[Per saltire sable and gules, in fess two rapiers Or]=-=-=-=-
      • Joseph Hayes
        ... You know, now that I think about it, I bet that s the precursor to the chair table. The legs need some sort of horizontal support. At some point, I bet
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 6, 2005
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          --- James Winkler <jrwinkler@...> wrote:
          > this would suggest to me that what we're looking at is a 'tilt top'
          > table that is designed to be placed against a wall when not in use
          > (saving space)

          You know, now that I think about it, I bet that's the precursor to the
          chair table. The legs need some sort of horizontal support. At some
          point, I bet someone sat on the cross piece. From there, it was
          probably adapted into a more comfortable seat.

          Ulrich




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        • Joseph Hayes
          ... Nice documentation! Mind if I borrow it? Ulrich __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 6, 2005
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            --- Johann Friedrich <yahoo@...> wrote:
            > This page is the one I used as an inspiration for a settle table.

            Nice documentation! Mind if I "borrow" it?

            Ulrich





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          • Joseph Hayes
            Johann, I was looking at the Letter from English Manor Antiques. I see they also provided a Monk s Bench. This is the common name for a chair table. By
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 6, 2005
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              Johann,

              I was looking at the Letter from English Manor Antiques. I see they
              also provided a "Monk's Bench." This is the common name for a chair
              table. By any chance did you get pictures of that?

              Thanks,
              Ulrich






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            • Joseph Hayes
              ... I found another picture of it at: http://hex.oucs.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/photos/A40/full/117canon/img_1727.jpg Damn, that s an ugly ceiling.... Ulrich
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 6, 2005
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                --- Johann Friedrich <yahoo@...> wrote:
                > This page is the one I used as an inspiration for a settle table.

                I found another picture of it at:
                http://hex.oucs.ox.ac.uk/~rejs/photos/A40/full/117canon/img_1727.jpg

                Damn, that's an ugly ceiling....

                Ulrich




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              • Johann Friedrich
                Not my page! Sorry... that s just a page that I used as a reference. ... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[The Realm of Darkness]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= O- Ken Bowley
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 6, 2005
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                  Not my page! Sorry... that's just a page that I used as a reference.

                  On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Joseph Hayes wrote:

                  > --- Johann Friedrich <yahoo@...> wrote:
                  >> This page is the one I used as an inspiration for a settle table.
                  >
                  > Nice documentation! Mind if I "borrow" it?
                  >
                  > Ulrich

                  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[The Realm of Darkness]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= O-
                  Ken Bowley yahoo@...
                  AKA: Lord Johann Friedrich http://www.trod.org
                  -=-=-=-=[Per saltire sable and gules, in fess two rapiers Or]=-=-=-=-
                • Gary Halstead
                  It has been. Barley Hall in York has a repro (as a folding table). You can see it under the writing slope here:
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 6, 2005
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                    It has been. Barley Hall in York has a repro (as a folding table). You
                    can see it under the writing slope here:
                    http://www.r3.org/barley_hall/tour/11parlor3.html

                    Oh my. Stumbled across this while looking for the table - take a look at
                    the artist's conceptions further down the page.

                    http://www.richardiii.net/links_friends_BH.htm

                    Ranulf

                    James Winkler wrote:
                    > I tend to agree with Ulrich...
                    >
                    > Now, given that there are certain perspective issues with the Campin painting there are a couple of other clues... if you look at the settle that Mary is leaning against... the height of the back is roughly double the seat height (from the foot rest). Assuming a low seat height of 16" that would put the back at 32"... the table top is 'roughly' at the same level as the back of the settle... so, *if* a seat was present it looks like it would have to fit fairly close to the table top... and that would be a bit high... I can't see anything in the painting that suggests a seat lower than that.
                    >
                    > One other point... besides the legs being asymmetrical, take a look at the feet. It *appears* that they are also asymmetrical. Longer on the side the angle is on and truncated on the side Mary is on... this would suggest to me that what we're looking at is a 'tilt top' table that is designed to be placed against a wall when not in use (saving space)... but, like Ulrich, I'm not sure it's a 'chair table'...
                    >
                    > .. its still a darned cool piece though. Would look cool reproduced...
                    >
                    > Chas.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I see the table legs are asymmetrical in their decoration, but I'm not
                    > sure if that's a chair table.
                    >
                    > Ulrich
                    >
                    > > Check out this link:
                    > > http://www.peartree12.freeserve.co.uk/gallery/campin_merode.html<http://www.peartree12.freeserve.co.uk/gallery/campin_merode.html>
                    > > Campin is mid 15th C.
                    > >
                    > > > Does anyone know of any pre-1600 examples,
                    > > > either pictures of extant pieces or period artwork?
                    >
                    >
                  • Dragano Abbruciati
                    OKay!! I have a new project - ehem - after I build my Mary Rose chest, of course. I really like the construction of that table. Thanks, Johann. Dragano
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 7, 2005
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                      OKay!!  I have a new project - ehem - after I build my Mary Rose chest, of course.  I really like the construction of that table.  Thanks, Johann.
                       
                      Dragano

                      Johann Friedrich <yahoo@...> wrote:
                      This page is the one I used as an inspiration for a settle table.  I still
                      havn't built the real one, but my mock-up made from mdf, 1x pine, and some
                      pallet material has been used as a work table in my house for quite a few
                      months now.  The documentation shows it to be from 1580

                      http://shadowlands.ansteorra.org/shadow/mar2002/Settle/settle-toc.html

                      On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Joseph Hayes wrote:

                      > Hi all,
                      >
                      > I'm thinking about building a chair table (a chair with a back that
                      > pivots in the rear of the armrest to become a table).
                      >
                      > "Oak Furniture: The British Tradition" by Chinnery lists them in 16th
                      > century inventories, but only has pictures of 17th century versions.
                      >
                      > I'm doing this as a challenge from my Laurel, but who knows, it may
                      > turn into an A&S project.  Does anyone know of any pre-1600 examples,
                      > either pictures of extant pieces or period artwork?
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Ulrich

                      -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[The Realm of Darkness]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= O-
                        Ken Bowley                                         yahoo@...
                        AKA: Lord Johann Friedrich                    http://www.trod.org
                      -=-=-=-=[Per saltire sable and gules, in fess two rapiers Or]=-=-=-=-


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