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Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject

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  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
    I am building a fence to hold cows. I hate building fence. I want to make the posts last as long as possible. If I cannot find any I will use poormans
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
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      I am building a fence to hold cows. I hate building fence. I want to make
      the posts last as long as possible. If I cannot find any I will use
      poormans creosote( a mixture of kerosene and roofing tar). It is absorbed
      into the wood to stop moisture movment and has anti fungal properties.

      James Cunningham


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <kjworz@...>
      To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>; <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 10:10 AM
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject


      >
      > It appears that creosote is hard to attain in any region.
      >
      > But, all this begs the question... What do you need it for? Maybe some of
      the esteemed members of this community know of a suitable alternative.
      Maybe even a better alternative.
      >
      > --
      > -Chris Schwartz
      > Silver Spring, MD
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > New subject: For those who live outside of OHIO like Connal. Does
      any
      > > > know
      > > > if you can still buy a produce call cerosote(sp) it is used to
      presurve
      > > > wood
      > > > like rail road ties and power poles and fence posts. It was outlawed
      a
      > > > few
      > > > years back in Ohio.
      > > >
      > > > James Cunningham
      > > >
      > > >>
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
      So did I... 30 years ago. It is strong stuff. James Cunningham If this does not bring tears to your eyes I will miss my guess. Retired USAF
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
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        So did I... 30 years ago.  It is strong stuff.
         
        James Cunningham
         
        If this does not bring tears to your eyes I will miss my guess. Retired USAF
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:19 AM
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject

        AND, even if you do find some creosote somewhere, be extremely cautious, I have a cousin that used it a few years back and had a violent skin reaction that caused him to spend some time in the hospital.  It was a terrible, burning rash.
         
        I'd suggest trying something less caustic.
         
        Laura Lea
        Barony of Darkwater
        Kingdom of Trimaris
         
        :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
         
        In a message dated 12/2/2004 8:21:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, mcnutt@... writes:

        I think it got banned.  I THINK it had the same stuff in it as Agent
        Orange, but I'm not sure.  I haven't seen it in 20 years.

        Master Will
        http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood


        -----Original Message-----
        From: James W. Pratt, Jr. [mailto:cunning@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:58 PM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] new subject


        New subject:  For those who live outside of OHIO like Connal.  Does any
        know
        if you can still buy a produce call cerosote(sp) it is used to presurve
        wood
        like rail road ties and power poles and fence posts.  It was outlawed a
        few
        years back in Ohio.

        James Cunningham

        >
        >
        > >Woodworking techniques before A.D. 1500 : papers presented to a
        symposium
        > >at Greenwich in September, 1980, together with edited discussion /
        edited
        > >by Sean McGrail.
        >
        > I've been trying to locate a copy for years.  Send me one, willya?
        >
        > I've seen a review of it, though (probably on Ranulf's site), and it
        might
        > not be as cool as the title makes it sound.
        >
        > >  Tage Frid teaches woodworking.
        >
        > This is excellent.  My favorite one-volume recommendation for
        beginning to
        > intermediate woodworkers.  I learned joinery from this book.
        >
        > Salaman I have, but don't refer to it much - it's OOP.  The others I'm
        not
        > familiar with.
        >
        > Roy Underhill is a living god, and his books are terrific.
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Colin
        >
        > p.s.  You should go look at Ranulf's annotated bibliography:
        > http://www.medievalwoodworking.com/books.htm
        >
        >
        > Albion Works
        > Furniture and Accessories
        > For the Medievalist!
        > http://www.albionworks.net
        > http://www.albionworks.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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      • Dragano Abbruciati
        Yup. I think you re right. I seem to remember them banning that and DDT at about the same time (last 70s - early 80s). They don t let us play with any of
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
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          Yup.  I think you're right.  I seem to remember them banning that and DDT at about the same time (last '70s - early '80s).  They don't let us play with any of the good stuff anymore.
           
          Dragano

          Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:
          I think it got banned.  I THINK it had the same stuff in it as Agent
          Orange, but I'm not sure.  I haven't seen it in 20 years.

          Master Will
          http://tech.cls.utk.edu/wood


          -----Original Message-----
          From: James W. Pratt, Jr. [mailto:cunning@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:58 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] new subject


          New subject:  For those who live outside of OHIO like Connal.  Does any
          know
          if you can still buy a produce call cerosote(sp) it is used to presurve
          wood
          like rail road ties and power poles and fence posts.  It was outlawed a
          few
          years back in Ohio.

          James Cunningham

          >
          >
          > >Woodworking techniques before A.D. 1500 : papers presented to a
          symposium
          > >at Greenwich in September, 1980, together with edited discussion /
          edited
          > >by Sean McGrail.
          >
          > I've been trying to locate a copy for years.  Send me one, willya?
          >
          > I've seen a review of it, though (probably on Ranulf's site), and it
          might
          > not be as cool as the title makes it sound.
          >
          > >  Tage Frid teaches woodworking.
          >
          > This is excellent.  My favorite one-volume recommendation for
          beginning to
          > intermediate woodworkers.  I learned joinery from this book.
          >
          > Salaman I have, but don't refer to it much - it's OOP.  The others I'm
          not
          > familiar with.
          >
          > Roy Underhill is a living god, and his books are terrific.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Colin
          >
          > p.s.  You should go look at Ranulf's annotated bibliography:
          > http://www.medievalwoodworking.com/books.htm
          >
          >
          > Albion Works
          > Furniture and Accessories
          > For the Medievalist!
          > http://www.albionworks.net
          > http://www.albionworks.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




          Yahoo! Groups Links










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        • Dragano Abbruciati
          Wow, Tim, you just made me feel very under-educated. Dragano Tim Bray wrote: Why on earth do you want to expose yourself to creosote? Why
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
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            Wow, Tim, you just made me feel very under-educated.
             
            Dragano

            Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
            Why on earth do you want to expose yourself to creosote?  Why would you
            want to accumulate something that is illegal for you to use?

            There are reasons why this stuff is restricted (not banned, btw).  It is a
            known human carcinogen - contact with it causes skin cancer in humans.  (It
            thus is part of a rather select list of substances "known" to cause cancer,
            not merely "suspected" of it.)  In addition, it is composed largely of
            chemical compounds that are themselves either known (benzopyrene) or
            suspected carcinogens, and some of these are volatile - meaning you inhale
            them when you work with the stuff.  (Hence its characteristic strong odor,
            which never completely dissipates.)

            (Note to Will: Not the same constituents as Agent Orange.  That was 2,4-D
            plus 2,4,5-TP, a potent mixture of herbicides which also contained dioxin,
            including 2,3,7,8-TCDD, an extremely nasty compound - toxic, carcinogenic,
            and teratogenic.  Dioxin is a contaminant in the other major
            wood-preservation chemical, Pentachlorophenol.)

            It's no good for amateur use anyway, because to be really effective, it has
            to be applied hot and under pressure, to force it into the wood.   The
            creosoting process generates a mixture of creosote and water (from moisture
            in the wood) that is a hazardous waste and requires expensive
            treatment.  Past practices in the creosoting industry caused major
            groundwater contamination at some of the worst toxic-waste sites on the
            Superfund list.  Although the stuff is thick and gooey, it is surprisingly
            mobile in soil and in groundwater; and persistent and difficult to remove.

            Its only redeeming feature is that wood treated with it lasts longer in
            ground or water contact than any other treatment method.  That should give
            you an idea of how toxic it is...

            Regards,
            Tim Bray
            Environmental Engineer & Hydrogeologist; worked on one of those Superfund
            creosoting sites


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          • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            That would be no in Kentucky also they decided it was not enviormentally friendly You might try to contact someone at either your local phone co or power co in
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
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              That would be no in Kentucky also

              they decided it was not enviormentally friendly

              You might try to contact someone at either your
              local phone co or power co in their department
              that deals with new poles and see what they are
              using now.


              --- "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@...> wrote:

              > New subject: For those who live outside of OHIO
              > like Connal. Does any know
              > if you can still buy a produce call cerosote(sp) it
              > is used to presurve wood
              > like rail road ties and power poles and fence posts.
              > It was outlawed a few
              > years back in Ohio.
              >
              > James Cunningham
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > >Woodworking techniques before A.D. 1500 : papers
              > presented to a symposium
              > > >at Greenwich in September, 1980, together with
              > edited discussion / edited
              > > >by Sean McGrail.
              > >
              > > I've been trying to locate a copy for years. Send
              > me one, willya?
              > >
              > > I've seen a review of it, though (probably on
              > Ranulf's site), and it might
              > > not be as cool as the title makes it sound.
              > >
              > > > Tage Frid teaches woodworking.
              > >
              > > This is excellent. My favorite one-volume
              > recommendation for beginning to
              > > intermediate woodworkers. I learned joinery from
              > this book.
              > >
              > > Salaman I have, but don't refer to it much - it's
              > OOP. The others I'm not
              > > familiar with.
              > >
              > > Roy Underhill is a living god, and his books are
              > terrific.
              > >
              > > Cheers,
              > > Colin
              > >
              > > p.s. You should go look at Ranulf's annotated
              > bibliography:
              > > http://www.medievalwoodworking.com/books.htm
              > >
              > >
              > > Albion Works
              > > Furniture and Accessories
              > > For the Medievalist!
              > > http://www.albionworks.net
              > > http://www.albionworks.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >


              =====
              Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

              Aude Aliquid Dignum
              ' Dare Something Worthy '



              __________________________________
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            • C N Schwartz
              I did exactly that for my own fence posts, minus the kerosene. Roofing tar applied liberally. ... From: James W. Pratt, Jr. [mailto:cunning@foryou.net] Sent:
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                I did exactly that for my own fence posts, minus the kerosene. Roofing tar
                applied liberally.









                -----Original Message-----
                From: James W. Pratt, Jr. [mailto:cunning@...]
                Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 5:14 PM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject



                I am building a fence to hold cows. I hate building fence. I want to make
                the posts last as long as possible. If I cannot find any I will use
                poormans creosote( a mixture of kerosene and roofing tar). It is absorbed
                into the wood to stop moisture movment and has anti fungal properties.

                James Cunningham


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <kjworz@...>
                To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>; <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 10:10 AM
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject


                >
                > It appears that creosote is hard to attain in any region.
                >
                > But, all this begs the question... What do you need it for? Maybe some of
                the esteemed members of this community know of a suitable alternative.
                Maybe even a better alternative.
                >
                > --
                > -Chris Schwartz
                > Silver Spring, MD
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > > >
                > > > New subject: For those who live outside of OHIO like Connal. Does
                any
                > > > know
                > > > if you can still buy a produce call cerosote(sp) it is used to
                presurve
                > > > wood
                > > > like rail road ties and power poles and fence posts. It was outlawed
                a
                > > > few
                > > > years back in Ohio.
                > > >
                > > > James Cunningham
                > > >
                > > >>
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >




                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                Ok now I will turn this into a historical question! What is the difference between creosote and pine pitch/pine tar. The stuff they call navel stores that
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
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                  Ok now I will turn this into a historical question! 
                   
                  What is the difference between creosote and pine pitch/pine tar.  The stuff they call navel stores that whas used on the rigging of sailing ships?
                   
                  James Cunningham
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 5:33 PM
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject Creosote

                  Wow, Tim, you just made me feel very under-educated.
                   
                  Dragano

                  Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
                  Why on earth do you want to expose yourself to creosote?  Why would you
                  want to accumulate something that is illegal for you to use?

                  There are reasons why this stuff is restricted (not banned, btw).  It is a
                  known human carcinogen - contact with it causes skin cancer in humans.  (It
                  thus is part of a rather select list of substances "known" to cause cancer,
                  not merely "suspected" of it.)  In addition, it is composed largely of
                  chemical compounds that are themselves either known (benzopyrene) or
                  suspected carcinogens, and some of these are volatile - meaning you inhale
                  them when you work with the stuff.  (Hence its characteristic strong odor,
                  which never completely dissipates.)

                  (Note to Will: Not the same constituents as Agent Orange.  That was 2,4-D
                  plus 2,4,5-TP, a potent mixture of herbicides which also contained dioxin,
                  including 2,3,7,8-TCDD, an extremely nasty compound - toxic, carcinogenic,
                  and teratogenic.  Dioxin is a contaminant in the other major
                  wood-preservation chemical, Pentachlorophenol.)

                  It's no good for amateur use anyway, because to be really effective, it has
                  to be applied hot and under pressure, to force it into the wood.   The
                  creosoting process generates a mixture of creosote and water (from moisture
                  in the wood) that is a hazardous waste and requires expensive
                  treatment.  Past practices in the creosoting industry caused major
                  groundwater contamination at some of the worst toxic-waste sites on the
                  Superfund list.  Although the stuff is thick and gooey, it is surprisingly
                  mobile in soil and in groundwater; and persistent and difficult to remove.

                  Its only redeeming feature is that wood treated with it lasts longer in
                  ground or water contact than any other treatment method.  That should give
                  you an idea of how toxic it is...

                  Regards,
                  Tim Bray
                  Environmental Engineer & Hydrogeologist; worked on one of those Superfund
                  creosoting sites


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                       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/




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                • Dan
                  I believe that creosote is derived from fossil fuels. James Cunningham wrote: Ok now I will turn this into a historical question! What is the difference
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 2, 2004
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                    I believe that creosote is derived from fossil fuels.

                    James Cunningham wrote:

                    Ok now I will turn this into a historical question!

                    What is the difference between creosote and pine pitch/pine tar. The stuff
                    they call navel stores that whas used on the rigging of sailing ships?
                  • julian wilson
                    Just following the end of World War 2, n the Essex,U.K. Seaside Town of Southend-on-Sea where my Father s Company owned a boatyard [mainly to maintain his
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 3, 2004
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                      Just following the end of World War 2, n the Essex,U.K. Seaside Town of Southend-on-Sea where my Father's Company owned a boatyard [mainly to maintain his small fleet of pleasure craft and "inshore trawlers"], the Boatyard was right next door to the Gas Works of the Southend Gas, Light, & Coke Company Ltd, the local heating- and cooking- fuel manufacturer for thee whole of the Borough.
                      Our Boatyard Manager used to buy the Tar, and Pitch, and Creosote he needed direct from the Gas Works Manager next door - but it was a "bring-your-own-container" kind of Deal, which meant the Yard's Apprentices trundling the hand barrows round from the yard to the Gas Works with the empty drums, and then a much harder journey back with the full ones. The Gas Works also produced and sold "Black Varnish".
                      Buying direct from the Plant as we did, we got those products at "rock-bottom" prices. I have always understood that all of them were by-products of the process of producing coal-gas.
                       
                      Dan <teffendar@...> wrote:
                      I believe that creosote is derived from fossil fuels.

                      James Cunningham wrote:

                      Ok now I will turn this into a historical question!

                      What is the difference between creosote and pine pitch/pine tar.  The stuff
                      they call navel stores that whas used on the rigging of sailing ships?




                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/





                      Yours in service,
                      Julian Wilson,
                      late-medieval Re-enactor.
                      Historian and Master Artisan to
                      "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards",
                      in "olde" Jersey


                      Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

                    • julian wilson
                      I wouldn t store pitch, or tar, or creosote in my navel, thank you. Be far too hard to clean out, quite apart from the skin burns. Surely you mean Naval ?
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 3, 2004
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                        I wouldn't store pitch, or tar, or creosote in my navel, thank you. Be far too hard to clean out, quite apart from the skin burns.
                        Surely you mean "Naval"?  :-)>

                        "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@...> wrote:
                        Ok now I will turn this into a historical question! 
                         
                        What is the difference between creosote and pine pitch/pine tar.  The stuff they call navel stores that whas used on the rigging of sailing ships?
                         
                        James Cunningham
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 5:33 PM
                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject Creosote

                        Wow, Tim, you just made me feel very under-educated.
                         
                        Dragano

                        Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
                        Why on earth do you want to expose yourself to creosote?  Why would you
                        want to accumulate something that is illegal for you to use?

                        There are reasons why this stuff is restricted (not banned, btw).  It is a
                        known human carcinogen - contact with it causes skin cancer in humans.  (It
                        thus is part of a rather select list of substances "known" to cause cancer,
                        not merely "suspected" of it.)  In addition, it is composed largely of
                        chemical compounds that are themselves either known (benzopyrene) or
                        suspected carcinogens, and some of these are volatile - meaning you inhale
                        them when you work with the stuff.  (Hence its characteristic strong odor,
                        which never completely dissipates.)

                        (Note to Will: Not the same constituents as Agent Orange.  That was 2,4-D
                        plus 2,4,5-TP, a potent mixture of herbicides which also contained dioxin,
                        including 2,3,7,8-TCDD, an extremely nasty compound - toxic, carcinogenic,
                        and teratogenic.  Dioxin is a contaminant in the other major
                        wood-preservation chemical, Pentachlorophenol.)

                        It's no good for amateur use anyway, because to be really effective, it has
                        to be applied hot and under pressure, to force it into the wood.   The
                        creosoting process generates a mixture of creosote and water (from moisture
                        in the wood) that is a hazardous waste and requires expensive
                        treatment.  Past practices in the creosoting industry caused major
                        groundwater contamination at some of the worst toxic-waste sites on the
                        Superfund list.  Although the stuff is thick and gooey, it is surprisingly
                        mobile in soil and in groundwater; and persistent and difficult to remove.

                        Its only redeeming feature is that wood treated with it lasts longer in
                        ground or water contact than any other treatment method.  That should give
                        you an idea of how toxic it is...

                        Regards,
                        Tim Bray
                        Environmental Engineer & Hydrogeologist; worked on one of those Superfund
                        creosoting sites


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                             http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/




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                        Yours in service,
                        Julian Wilson,
                        late-medieval Re-enactor.
                        Historian and Master Artisan to
                        "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards",
                        in "olde" Jersey


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                      • Tim Bray
                        ... Julian is right, creosote is made from coal tar - which in turn is a by-product from making coal gas. IOW it comes from coal, whereas the pine tar comes
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 3, 2004
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                          What is the difference between creosote and pine pitch/pine tar. 

                          Julian is right, creosote is made from coal tar - which in turn is a by-product from making coal gas.  IOW it comes from coal, whereas the pine tar comes from ... wait for it... pine trees!

                          Pine tar is less toxic/carcinogenic than coal tar, although it probably still has some of the cancer-causing agents in it.

                          Cheers,
                          Colin


                          Albion Works
                          Furniture and Accessories
                          For the Medievalist!
                        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                          They call the stuff that gets in a wood burning chimney creosote! James Cunningham ... stuff
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 3, 2004
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                            They call the stuff that gets in a wood burning chimney creosote!

                            James Cunningham

                            >
                            > I believe that creosote is derived from fossil fuels.
                            >
                            > James Cunningham wrote:
                            >
                            > Ok now I will turn this into a historical question!
                            >
                            > What is the difference between creosote and pine pitch/pine tar. The
                            stuff
                            > they call navel stores that whas used on the rigging of sailing ships?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                            Which is more fun navel jelly or naval jelly? Computers are not the only ones who make a big deal out of one letter! OK ! I did mean Naval stores. James
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 3, 2004
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                              Which is more fun navel jelly or naval jelly?  Computers are not the only ones who make a big deal out of one letter!   OK !  I did mean Naval stores.
                               
                              James Cunningham
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:39 PM
                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject Creosote

                              I wouldn't store pitch, or tar, or creosote in my navel, thank you. Be far too hard to clean out, quite apart from the skin burns.
                              Surely you mean "Naval"?  :-)>

                              "James W. Pratt, Jr." <cunning@...> wrote:
                              Ok now I will turn this into a historical question! 
                               
                              What is the difference between creosote and pine pitch/pine tar.  The stuff they call navel stores that whas used on the rigging of sailing ships?
                               
                              James Cunningham
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 5:33 PM
                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject Creosote

                              Wow, Tim, you just made me feel very under-educated.
                               
                              Dragano

                              Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
                              Why on earth do you want to expose yourself to creosote?  Why would you
                              want to accumulate something that is illegal for you to use?

                              There are reasons why this stuff is restricted (not banned, btw).  It is a
                              known human carcinogen - contact with it causes skin cancer in humans.  (It
                              thus is part of a rather select list of substances "known" to cause cancer,
                              not merely "suspected" of it.)  In addition, it is composed largely of
                              chemical compounds that are themselves either known (benzopyrene) or
                              suspected carcinogens, and some of these are volatile - meaning you inhale
                              them when you work with the stuff.  (Hence its characteristic strong odor,
                              which never completely dissipates.)

                              (Note to Will: Not the same constituents as Agent Orange.  That was 2,4-D
                              plus 2,4,5-TP, a potent mixture of herbicides which also contained dioxin,
                              including 2,3,7,8-TCDD, an extremely nasty compound - toxic, carcinogenic,
                              and teratogenic.  Dioxin is a contaminant in the other major
                              wood-preservation chemical, Pentachlorophenol.)

                              It's no good for amateur use anyway, because to be really effective, it has
                              to be applied hot and under pressure, to force it into the wood.   The
                              creosoting process generates a mixture of creosote and water (from moisture
                              in the wood) that is a hazardous waste and requires expensive
                              treatment.  Past practices in the creosoting industry caused major
                              groundwater contamination at some of the worst toxic-waste sites on the
                              Superfund list.  Although the stuff is thick and gooey, it is surprisingly
                              mobile in soil and in groundwater; and persistent and difficult to remove.

                              Its only redeeming feature is that wood treated with it lasts longer in
                              ground or water contact than any other treatment method.  That should give
                              you an idea of how toxic it is...

                              Regards,
                              Tim Bray
                              Environmental Engineer & Hydrogeologist; worked on one of those Superfund
                              creosoting sites


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                              Yours in service,
                              Julian Wilson,
                              late-medieval Re-enactor.
                              Historian and Master Artisan to
                              "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards",
                              in "olde" Jersey


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                            • Rob Lewis
                              And here in the desert we have Creosote bushes..... So I did a search to find out what the US Government considers Creosote (from
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 3, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                And here in the desert we have Creosote bushes.....
                                 
                                So I did a search to find out what the US Government considers Creosote (from http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts85.html ):
                                 
                                What is creosote?

                                Creosote is the name used for a variety of products: wood creosote, coal tar creosote, coal tar, coal tar pitch, and coal tar pitch volatiles. These products are mixtures of many chemicals created by high-temperature treatment of beech and other woods, coal, or from the resin of the creosote bush.

                                Wood creosote is a colorless to yellowish greasy liquid with a smoky odor and burned taste. Coal tar creosote is a thick, oily liquid that is typically amber to black in color. Coal tar and coal tar pitch are usually thick, black, or dark-brown liquids or semisolids with a smoky odor.

                                Wood creosote has been used as a disinfectant, a laxative, and a cough treatment, but is rarely used these ways today. Coal tar products are used in medicines to treat skin diseases such as psoriasis, and are also used as animal and bird repellents, insecticides, restricted pesticides, animal dips, and fungicides. Coal tar creosote is the most widely used wood preservative in the United States. Coal tar, coal tar pitch, and coal tar pitch volatiles are used for roofing, road paving, aluminum smelting, and coking.



                                From: James W. Pratt, Jr. [mailto:cunning@...]
                                Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:34 PM
                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] new subject Creosote

                                They call the stuff that gets in a wood burning chimney creosote!

                                James Cunningham

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