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RE: [medievalsawdust] Re: Treadle lathe (attn Tom Rettie)

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  • Joseph Hayes
    ... Hi all, I ve been doing some surfing trying to find pictures of a period treadle spining-wheel. I foound a document titled, Wool and Wool-Based Textiles
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 11, 2002
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      --- Avery <avery@...> wrote:
      > Does anyone know when treadle spining-wheels became common?

      Hi all,

      I've been doing some surfing trying to find pictures of a period
      treadle spining-wheel. I foound a document titled, "Wool and
      Wool-Based Textiles in the West European Economy, c.800 - 1500:
      Innovations and Traditions in Textile Products, Technology, and
      Industrial Organisation." It's at
      http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/ecipa/archive/UT-ECIPA-MUNRO-00-05.pdf

      In the section on Saxony spinning wheels, it says, "Formerly dated to
      c.1530 and attributed to Meister J�rgen of Brunswick, Lower Saxony,
      this new spinning wheel has since been found, almost fully evolved, in
      late fifteenth-century drawings (in Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch of
      Waldburg-Wolfegg, Lake Constance, c.1475-80; and in Leonardo da Vinci's
      Codice Atlantico, c.1490)." (Avery, there's your da Vinci info.)

      If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
      published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."

      Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
      Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
      us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.

      Thanks,
      Ulrich


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    • Tom Rettie
      ... Zounds, you guys must be reading my mind. When I saw Avery s post I went straight to the catalog for Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch (the original toured
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 11, 2002
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        >Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
        >Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
        >us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.

        Zounds, you guys must be reading my mind. When I saw Avery's post I went
        straight to the catalog for Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch (the original
        toured when it had been disassembled for cleaning and rebinding, with a
        stop in DC. You could even buy leather-bound reproductions, only $1980 a
        copy).

        http://www.his.com/~tom/Images/wheel.jpg

        It is not a treadle wheel however. Nor are the few Elizabethan ones I've
        seen illustrated.

        Still lookin'

        Tom R.


        ------------------------------------------------
        Tom Rettie tom@...
        http://www.his.com/~tom/index.html
      • Ted Kocot
        ... Ooooo. Ooooo. I have a copy of that! Work flew me to Austria last year so that by day I could see a flourecently lit lab and by night I could see the
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 12, 2002
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          > If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
          > published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."
          >
          > Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
          > Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
          > us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.

          Ooooo. Ooooo. I have a copy of that! Work flew me to Austria last year
          so that by day I could see a flourecently lit lab and by night I could see
          the outsides of lots of cool things that were locked tight at night.

          The London layover was my idea. ;) Anyhow, I picked up a copy at the
          Victoria and Albert. I'll try and check it out tonight.

          Avery
        • Brian D. Murphy
          ... Just a side note. If you re interested in a copy of this one, there is a seller on eBay listing them for about half the list price:
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 12, 2002
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            Ulrich wrote:

            >
            > If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
            > published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."
            >
            > Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
            > Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
            > us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.

            Just a side note. If you're interested in a copy of this one, there is a
            seller on eBay listing them for about half the list price:

            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1979132699

            I grabbed one a while back and found several useful illustrations in it.
            There is one particularly nice drawing that includes several pavilions, for
            example.

            This housebook is different than the Mendel Housebook (Das Hausbuch der
            Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung zu Nürnberg), isn't it? Tom has an image of
            a turner from this source on his web site. I'd love to have a copy of this
            one too, but there are several scans from it online at:

            http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/m_inh.htm

            ...simple drawings, but some great illustrations of hand tools in use.

            Bran

            Bran Du ap Dafydd
            http://www.stcarol.org
          • Dan Baker
            Hmmm, weren t we talking about a saw like the one in the picture in the Mendel Housebook at the below site. According to the website this would date it about
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 13, 2002
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              Hmmm, weren't we talking about a saw like the one in the picture in the
              Mendel Housebook at the below site. According to the website this would
              date it about 1425

              http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/011.jpg

              --
              YIS,

              Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
              Privateer to the Midrealm

              Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
              ...Take time to dance in the rain...




              >From: "Brian D. Murphy" <bmurphy@...>
              >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: [medievalsawdust] Re: Treadle lathe (attn Tom Rettie)
              >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:50:58 -0600
              >
              >Ulrich wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
              > > published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."
              > >
              > > Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
              > > Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
              > > us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.
              >
              >Just a side note. If you're interested in a copy of this one, there is a
              >seller on eBay listing them for about half the list price:
              >
              >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1979132699
              >
              >I grabbed one a while back and found several useful illustrations in it.
              >There is one particularly nice drawing that includes several pavilions, for
              >example.
              >
              >This housebook is different than the Mendel Housebook (Das Hausbuch der
              >Mendelschen Zw�lfbr�derstiftung zu N�rnberg), isn't it? Tom has an image
              >of
              >a turner from this source on his web site. I'd love to have a copy of this
              >one too, but there are several scans from it online at:
              >
              >http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/m_inh.htm
              >
              >...simple drawings, but some great illustrations of hand tools in use.
              >
              >Bran
              >
              >Bran Du ap Dafydd
              >http://www.stcarol.org
              >
              >


              _________________________________________________________________
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            • Brian D. Murphy
              ... From: Dan Baker To: Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust]
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 13, 2002
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Dan Baker" <Capten_Rhys@...>
                To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:13 AM
                Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Re: Treadle lathe (attn Tom Rettie)


                > Hmmm, weren't we talking about a saw like the one in the picture in the
                > Mendel Housebook at the below site. According to the website this would
                > date it about 1425
                >
                > http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/011.jpg
                >
                > --
                > YIS,
                >
                > Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
                > Privateer to the Midrealm
                >
                > Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
                > ...Take time to dance in the rain...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >From: "Brian D. Murphy" <bmurphy@...>
                > >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                > >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                > >Subject: [medievalsawdust] Re: Treadle lathe (attn Tom Rettie)
                > >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:50:58 -0600
                > >
                > >Ulrich wrote:
                > >
                > > >
                > > > If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
                > > > published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."
                > > >
                > > > Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
                > > > Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
                > > > us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.
                > >
                > >Just a side note. If you're interested in a copy of this one, there is a
                > >seller on eBay listing them for about half the list price:
                > >
                > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1979132699
                > >
                > >I grabbed one a while back and found several useful illustrations in it.
                > >There is one particularly nice drawing that includes several pavilions,
                for
                > >example.
                > >
                > >This housebook is different than the Mendel Housebook (Das Hausbuch der
                > >Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung zu Nürnberg), isn't it? Tom has an image
                > >of
                > >a turner from this source on his web site. I'd love to have a copy of
                this
                > >one too, but there are several scans from it online at:
                > >
                > >http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/m_inh.htm
                > >
                > >...simple drawings, but some great illustrations of hand tools in use.
                > >
                > >Bran
                > >
                > >Bran Du ap Dafydd
                > >http://www.stcarol.org
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
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                >
              • Brian D. Murphy
                Yes we were talking about turning/bow saws. In fact, it was my research on bow saws that led me to those images :) The one I m working on is a different
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 13, 2002
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                  Yes we were talking about turning/bow saws. In fact, it was my research on
                  bow saws that led me to those images :) The one I'm working on is a
                  different shape, but I'll probably be making several, and somewhere in there
                  I intend to try one that more closely conforms to the hausbuch
                  illustrations.

                  Oh, and sorry about that blank post a minute ago. Still working on my first
                  cup of coffee.

                  Bran

                  Bran Du ap Dafydd
                  http://www.stcarol.org



                  > Hmmm, weren't we talking about a saw like the one in the picture in the
                  > Mendel Housebook at the below site. According to the website this would
                  > date it about 1425
                  >
                  > http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/011.jpg
                  >
                  > --
                  > YIS,
                  >
                  > Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
                  > Privateer to the Midrealm
                  >
                • Joseph Hayes
                  ... In this same document, I also found a reference to an early wheel with flyer in a drawing by Lucas van Leyden . Actually, it s a woodcut and it s another
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 13, 2002
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                    <von_landstuhl@...> wrote:
                    > I've been doing some surfing trying to find pictures of a period
                    > treadle spining-wheel. I foound a document titled, "Wool and
                    > Wool-Based Textiles in the West European Economy, c.800 - 1500:
                    > Innovations and Traditions in Textile Products, Technology, and
                    > Industrial Organisation." It's at
                    > http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/ecipa/archive/UT-ECIPA-MUNRO-00-
                    > 05.pdf

                    In this same document, I also found a reference to an early wheel with
                    flyer in "a drawing by Lucas van Leyden". Actually, it's a woodcut and
                    it's another hand-cranked wheel. I've posted a copy here:
                    http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/stuff/Lucas_van_Leyden.jpg

                    It's title is "The Young Woman at the Spinning Wheel" and it dates to
                    1513. It comes from the book "Pieter Bruegel the Elder and Lucas van
                    Leyden" by Jacques Lavalleye.

                    Ulrich


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