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RE: [medievalsawdust] Re: Treadle lathe

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  • Joseph Hayes
    ... It is. You can see a copy here: http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/stool_documentation_3.gif UvL
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 10, 2002
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      --- Avery <avery@...> wrote:
      > I think DaVinci's, in Codex Atlanticus, is a treadle design, but
      > don't quote me on that.

      It is. You can see a copy here:
      http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/stool_documentation_3.gif

      UvL


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    • Ted Kocot
      ... Actually, I was thinking of his spinning wheel, which is clear documentation of the bobin/flyer design development, rather than the wool wheel style with
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 10, 2002
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        >> I think DaVinci's, in Codex Atlanticus, is a treadle design, but don't
        >> quote me on that.
        >
        > It is. You can see a copy here:
        > http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/stool_documentation_3.gif

        Actually, I was thinking of his spinning wheel, which is clear
        documentation of the bobin/flyer design development, rather than the wool
        wheel style with its lone spindle.

        Is the lathe in Atlanticus as well?

        Speaking of which, does anyone know if reprints of the various DaVinci
        codecies are available out there anywhere?

        Avery
      • Joseph Hayes
        ... Oops, sorry! I saw the subject and must have skipped over the message body. The spinning wheel I know of, appears to be a hand-cranked machine (check
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 10, 2002
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          --- Ted Kocot <avery@...> wrote:
          > Actually, I was thinking of his spinning wheel,

          Oops, sorry! I saw the subject and must have skipped over the message
          body. The "spinning wheel" I know of, appears to be a hand-cranked
          machine (check out:
          http://www.ihot.com/~pkarsten/PhyllisFiber/CottonTutorial/LnrdoSpin.gif).
          It get lots of attention because of the introduction of the flyer.

          > Is the lathe in Atlanticus as well?

          I'm 99% sure it is. I'l have to do some digging to confirm.

          Ulrich


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        • Avery
          ... Yep, that s the one I was thinking of. ... I have read that, while DaVinci often gets credit for the flyer, it predated him. Wish I could remember where.
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 11, 2002
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            >Oops, sorry! I saw the subject and must have skipped over the message
            >body. The "spinning wheel" I know of, appears to be a hand-cranked
            >machine (check out:
            >http://www.ihot.com/~pkarsten/PhyllisFiber/CottonTutorial/LnrdoSpin.gif).

            Yep, that's the one I was thinking of.

            >It get lots of attention because of the introduction of the flyer.

            I have read that, while DaVinci often gets credit for the flyer, it predated
            him. Wish I could remember where.

            What is really different about this design is the pair of gears in the back
            that moves the flier in and out, thereby automating the little series of
            hooks you see on most wheels. I don't know if I've ever seen a wheel that
            did that, though.

            Avery
          • Joseph Hayes
            ... Hi all, I ve been doing some surfing trying to find pictures of a period treadle spining-wheel. I foound a document titled, Wool and Wool-Based Textiles
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 11, 2002
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              --- Avery <avery@...> wrote:
              > Does anyone know when treadle spining-wheels became common?

              Hi all,

              I've been doing some surfing trying to find pictures of a period
              treadle spining-wheel. I foound a document titled, "Wool and
              Wool-Based Textiles in the West European Economy, c.800 - 1500:
              Innovations and Traditions in Textile Products, Technology, and
              Industrial Organisation." It's at
              http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/ecipa/archive/UT-ECIPA-MUNRO-00-05.pdf

              In the section on Saxony spinning wheels, it says, "Formerly dated to
              c.1530 and attributed to Meister J�rgen of Brunswick, Lower Saxony,
              this new spinning wheel has since been found, almost fully evolved, in
              late fifteenth-century drawings (in Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch of
              Waldburg-Wolfegg, Lake Constance, c.1475-80; and in Leonardo da Vinci's
              Codice Atlantico, c.1490)." (Avery, there's your da Vinci info.)

              If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
              published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."

              Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
              Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
              us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.

              Thanks,
              Ulrich


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            • Tom Rettie
              ... Zounds, you guys must be reading my mind. When I saw Avery s post I went straight to the catalog for Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch (the original toured
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 11, 2002
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                >Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
                >Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
                >us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.

                Zounds, you guys must be reading my mind. When I saw Avery's post I went
                straight to the catalog for Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch (the original
                toured when it had been disassembled for cleaning and rebinding, with a
                stop in DC. You could even buy leather-bound reproductions, only $1980 a
                copy).

                http://www.his.com/~tom/Images/wheel.jpg

                It is not a treadle wheel however. Nor are the few Elizabethan ones I've
                seen illustrated.

                Still lookin'

                Tom R.


                ------------------------------------------------
                Tom Rettie tom@...
                http://www.his.com/~tom/index.html
              • Ted Kocot
                ... Ooooo. Ooooo. I have a copy of that! Work flew me to Austria last year so that by day I could see a flourecently lit lab and by night I could see the
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 12, 2002
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                  > If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
                  > published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."
                  >
                  > Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
                  > Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
                  > us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.

                  Ooooo. Ooooo. I have a copy of that! Work flew me to Austria last year
                  so that by day I could see a flourecently lit lab and by night I could see
                  the outsides of lots of cool things that were locked tight at night.

                  The London layover was my idea. ;) Anyhow, I picked up a copy at the
                  Victoria and Albert. I'll try and check it out tonight.

                  Avery
                • Brian D. Murphy
                  ... Just a side note. If you re interested in a copy of this one, there is a seller on eBay listing them for about half the list price:
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 12, 2002
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                    Ulrich wrote:

                    >
                    > If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
                    > published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."
                    >
                    > Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
                    > Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
                    > us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.

                    Just a side note. If you're interested in a copy of this one, there is a
                    seller on eBay listing them for about half the list price:

                    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1979132699

                    I grabbed one a while back and found several useful illustrations in it.
                    There is one particularly nice drawing that includes several pavilions, for
                    example.

                    This housebook is different than the Mendel Housebook (Das Hausbuch der
                    Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung zu Nürnberg), isn't it? Tom has an image of
                    a turner from this source on his web site. I'd love to have a copy of this
                    one too, but there are several scans from it online at:

                    http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/m_inh.htm

                    ...simple drawings, but some great illustrations of hand tools in use.

                    Bran

                    Bran Du ap Dafydd
                    http://www.stcarol.org
                  • Dan Baker
                    Hmmm, weren t we talking about a saw like the one in the picture in the Mendel Housebook at the below site. According to the website this would date it about
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 13, 2002
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                      Hmmm, weren't we talking about a saw like the one in the picture in the
                      Mendel Housebook at the below site. According to the website this would
                      date it about 1425

                      http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/011.jpg

                      --
                      YIS,

                      Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
                      Privateer to the Midrealm

                      Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
                      ...Take time to dance in the rain...




                      >From: "Brian D. Murphy" <bmurphy@...>
                      >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: [medievalsawdust] Re: Treadle lathe (attn Tom Rettie)
                      >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:50:58 -0600
                      >
                      >Ulrich wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
                      > > published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."
                      > >
                      > > Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
                      > > Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
                      > > us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.
                      >
                      >Just a side note. If you're interested in a copy of this one, there is a
                      >seller on eBay listing them for about half the list price:
                      >
                      >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1979132699
                      >
                      >I grabbed one a while back and found several useful illustrations in it.
                      >There is one particularly nice drawing that includes several pavilions, for
                      >example.
                      >
                      >This housebook is different than the Mendel Housebook (Das Hausbuch der
                      >Mendelschen Zw�lfbr�derstiftung zu N�rnberg), isn't it? Tom has an image
                      >of
                      >a turner from this source on his web site. I'd love to have a copy of this
                      >one too, but there are several scans from it online at:
                      >
                      >http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/m_inh.htm
                      >
                      >...simple drawings, but some great illustrations of hand tools in use.
                      >
                      >Bran
                      >
                      >Bran Du ap Dafydd
                      >http://www.stcarol.org
                      >
                      >


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                    • Brian D. Murphy
                      ... From: Dan Baker To: Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust]
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 13, 2002
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Dan Baker" <Capten_Rhys@...>
                        To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:13 AM
                        Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Re: Treadle lathe (attn Tom Rettie)


                        > Hmmm, weren't we talking about a saw like the one in the picture in the
                        > Mendel Housebook at the below site. According to the website this would
                        > date it about 1425
                        >
                        > http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/011.jpg
                        >
                        > --
                        > YIS,
                        >
                        > Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
                        > Privateer to the Midrealm
                        >
                        > Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
                        > ...Take time to dance in the rain...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >From: "Brian D. Murphy" <bmurphy@...>
                        > >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        > >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                        > >Subject: [medievalsawdust] Re: Treadle lathe (attn Tom Rettie)
                        > >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:50:58 -0600
                        > >
                        > >Ulrich wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > If my translation is correct, "Das Mittelalterliche Hausbuch" was
                        > > > published as "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook."
                        > > >
                        > > > Tom, I've seen your name on several web pages recommending this book.
                        > > > Do you have a copy? If so, can you look up the spinning wheel and let
                        > > > us know what it looks like? Even better if you can scan and post.
                        > >
                        > >Just a side note. If you're interested in a copy of this one, there is a
                        > >seller on eBay listing them for about half the list price:
                        > >
                        > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1979132699
                        > >
                        > >I grabbed one a while back and found several useful illustrations in it.
                        > >There is one particularly nice drawing that includes several pavilions,
                        for
                        > >example.
                        > >
                        > >This housebook is different than the Mendel Housebook (Das Hausbuch der
                        > >Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung zu Nürnberg), isn't it? Tom has an image
                        > >of
                        > >a turner from this source on his web site. I'd love to have a copy of
                        this
                        > >one too, but there are several scans from it online at:
                        > >
                        > >http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/m_inh.htm
                        > >
                        > >...simple drawings, but some great illustrations of hand tools in use.
                        > >
                        > >Bran
                        > >
                        > >Bran Du ap Dafydd
                        > >http://www.stcarol.org
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Brian D. Murphy
                        Yes we were talking about turning/bow saws. In fact, it was my research on bow saws that led me to those images :) The one I m working on is a different
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 13, 2002
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                          Yes we were talking about turning/bow saws. In fact, it was my research on
                          bow saws that led me to those images :) The one I'm working on is a
                          different shape, but I'll probably be making several, and somewhere in there
                          I intend to try one that more closely conforms to the hausbuch
                          illustrations.

                          Oh, and sorry about that blank post a minute ago. Still working on my first
                          cup of coffee.

                          Bran

                          Bran Du ap Dafydd
                          http://www.stcarol.org



                          > Hmmm, weren't we talking about a saw like the one in the picture in the
                          > Mendel Housebook at the below site. According to the website this would
                          > date it about 1425
                          >
                          > http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/011.jpg
                          >
                          > --
                          > YIS,
                          >
                          > Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
                          > Privateer to the Midrealm
                          >
                        • Joseph Hayes
                          ... In this same document, I also found a reference to an early wheel with flyer in a drawing by Lucas van Leyden . Actually, it s a woodcut and it s another
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 13, 2002
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                            <von_landstuhl@...> wrote:
                            > I've been doing some surfing trying to find pictures of a period
                            > treadle spining-wheel. I foound a document titled, "Wool and
                            > Wool-Based Textiles in the West European Economy, c.800 - 1500:
                            > Innovations and Traditions in Textile Products, Technology, and
                            > Industrial Organisation." It's at
                            > http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/ecipa/archive/UT-ECIPA-MUNRO-00-
                            > 05.pdf

                            In this same document, I also found a reference to an early wheel with
                            flyer in "a drawing by Lucas van Leyden". Actually, it's a woodcut and
                            it's another hand-cranked wheel. I've posted a copy here:
                            http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/stuff/Lucas_van_Leyden.jpg

                            It's title is "The Young Woman at the Spinning Wheel" and it dates to
                            1513. It comes from the book "Pieter Bruegel the Elder and Lucas van
                            Leyden" by Jacques Lavalleye.

                            Ulrich


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