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Re: [medievalsawdust] Rebated Clamped-Front Chest

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  • Dan Baker
    Many excellent questions. Lets see if I can answer them all. It is a very odd leg detail, but it is a very easy chest for a beginner so I am writing up plans
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 16, 2004
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      Many excellent questions. Lets see if I can answer them all.

      It is a very odd leg detail, but it is a very easy chest for a beginner so I
      am writing up plans to put on a website. If you use three boards glued up
      for the legs and make the cutout on two of them before glue-up, it's very
      easy to make the corner without any chiseling or routing.

      There are at least 4 examples of the original chest. The one I pictured was
      for sale online for 1300 pounds english. The other three are in museums:
      The Old House in Hereford, The Brecknock Museum and The Abergavenny Museum,
      all in Wales. The dating on the one I pictured was less firm, most likely
      in the early 1500s due to lack of carving or other details, possibly as late
      at 1650. The one in The Old House is Dated c. 1500. The one in The
      Brecknock is dated "15th century with 16th century alterations" (the
      alterations apprear to be all carving) and the last is dated early 16th
      century. So the dating seems pretty firm. All examples are of welsh origin.
      The style is written up in the RFS's newsletter, A Group of Chests from
      the Welsh Borders in the Regional Furniture Society's Newsletter No. 18,
      Winter 1992. Unfortunitely, I don't have a copy of the newsletter yet,
      gotta order one. So, I don't know if it lists more examples. I am tracking
      down more information from the museums ask we speak.

      Yes you are correct. It is a box with attached legs, not a real
      clamped-front. It also has the advantage of being able to raise the lid
      even if it is flat up against the wall. This is because the lid is attached
      to the box, not the legs so the legs stick out to the back the thickness of
      the lid. Also the grain on the sides goes horziontal, not vertical like so
      many other chests, so less of a cross grain problem.

      The legs and box are all put together with treenails. they appear to be
      three-hit nails and I think are standing proud of the surface at least in
      the visible areas. The ones in the corners under the legs of course would
      most likely be flush.

      The original has stiffeners on the lid to the outside of the box. They are
      hidden by the legs in the front view, visible but hard to pick out on the
      side view if you don't know they are there. I did the same to keep the lid
      flat. Mine are also visable on the side view if you look close. My chest
      pictured is pine. I had a big pile of pine boards from when my dad tore
      down a cottage, all 1x12 t&g knotty pine, at least 75 years old. I am
      running low as I use a lot of it on a ceiling, but hey, it was free. I plan
      on a second one in white ash that I also got for free. The original is made
      from good old english oak. I also plan to do a plywood version as a prise
      in a raffle for people who work troll at an event.

      --
      In service to the dream,

      Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
      Privateer to the Midrealm

      Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
      (Take time to dance in the rain)

      Cymru am byth ("Wales Forever")




      >
      >Very odd leg detail. Where is the original chest, and how firm is the
      >15th/16th c. attribution?
      >
      >It looks like the chest consists of a boarded box, supported on legs
      that
      >are attached to the outside corners. Is that correct? If so, then this
      is
      >really not a clamped-front at all, but an imitation of the style.
      >
      >How are the legs attached to the box in the original? Treenails? And
      how
      >is the box itself joined together?
      >
      >Your repro looks good. How are you planning to keep the lid flat? And
      >what wood are you using?
      >
      >

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    • Dan Baker
      In the chest pictured, the hinges and lock are not a part of the original chest. Ooohhhh, nice chest, from Roe eh? (hmmmmmmm) -- In service to the dream,
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 16, 2004
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        In the chest pictured, the hinges and lock are not a part of the original
        chest.

        Ooohhhh, nice chest, from Roe eh? (hmmmmmmm)

        --
        In service to the dream,

        Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
        Privateer to the Midrealm

        Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
        (Take time to dance in the rain)

        Cymru am byth ("Wales Forever")




        >From: "C N Schwartz" <kjworz@...>
        >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: RE: [medievalsawdust] Rebated Clamped-Front Chest
        >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:34:55 -0400
        >
        >
        >
        >I think we've seen plenty of pictorial examples mentioned here over
        time.
        >Predating 1500s and postdating. Can you be more specific? Is it a
        >particular style of hinges? Strap hinges with barrel and pin for the
        >mechanics? Or the simpler double loops (like Mastermyr chest)? I think
        the
        >wealth of the buyer, or the use of the chest, or the skill of the iron
        >monger, would dictate the hinge selection.
        >
        >If barrel and pin were in use at the time, is a caveat. I'm only sorta
        sure
        >about that. Wait! Here is an example of BOTH being used on one 15th C
        >chest!
        >http://www.medievalwoodworking.com/roe/roe02.jpg
        >
        >
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Bill McNutt [mailto:mcnutt@...]
        >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 1:05 PM
        >To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: RE: [medievalsawdust] Rebated Clamped-Front Chest
        >
        >
        >A question for the company present:
        >
        >Were strap hinges used on panel chests during the 16th century?
        >
        >Will
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

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      • Dan Baker
        You got it in one! there is a cutout on the leg that wraps around the box and supports the bottom. One way to do this is a solid board, with a deep pocket cut
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 16, 2004
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          You got it in one!

          there is a cutout on the leg that wraps around the box and supports the
          bottom. One way to do this is a solid board, with a deep pocket cut into
          it. Or, what I did, since my wood was all dimensional. is glue up 3 boards,
          and cut the "L" shape in two of them before glue up. giving me the required
          shape.

          --
          In service to the dream,

          Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
          Privateer to the Midrealm

          Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
          (Take time to dance in the rain)

          Cymru am byth ("Wales Forever")


          >Question/Observation/theory?
          >
          >When I look at the legs of this chest it looks to me like the upper
          >section(looking from the top down) is "L" shaped. I do not see
          that
          >cut out on the bottom. This leads me to believe the the support for
          >the bottom of the chest is that it sets on the uncutout part of the
          >legs. The sides are then put on top of that. This would give it the
          >strongest structural support.
          >
          >is this correct?
          >

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