Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: wood question

Expand Messages
  • vinlandar
    ooOOOOohhhh.... Thanks, :-) -Charlie
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 7, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      ooOOOOohhhh.... Thanks, :-)

      -Charlie



      --- In medievalsawdust@y..., Joseph Hayes <von_landstuhl@y...> wrote:
      >
      > --- vinlandar <vinlandar@c...> wrote:
      > > What the heck is Querqus rubrawhatchamacallit?
      >
      > Querqus robur = English oak
      > Querqus rubra = Red Oak
      > Querqus alba = White Oak
      >
      > UvL
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
      > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
    • lambdakennels1@juno.com
      Does birds-eye maple exist in Europe or is it strictly a North American phenomenon? I know it is caused by a beetle biting the maple, and infecting it with a
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 11, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Does birds-eye maple exist in Europe or is it strictly a North American phenomenon?  I know it is caused by a beetle biting the maple, and infecting it with a fungus that causes the birds-eye appearence.  What I don't know is the name of the beetle or fungus and if it exists in Europe, or did before 1600.  Does anyone know?  Thank you.

        Lady Stephanie Lilburn
        Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
        http://lambdafarm.mysite.com/
        Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
        K5AMK


        ____________________________________________________________
        Click here for low prices on a huge selection of popcorn poppers!

      • Oakes, George
        Oh gosh, I can t answer your question, in fact I didn t even know it was a beetle that cause the imperfection. But its such a beautiful wood!! If your
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Oh gosh, I can't answer your question, in fact I didn't even know it was a beetle that cause the imperfection.
           
          But its such a beautiful wood!! If your considering making a period item from it, and are leaning away from the wood because it "May NOT have existed in Period" and of course its not for an Art/Sci Project, by all means use the wood. Its just so darn pretty.
           
          On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was left bare and unfinished, The nobles would spend lots of money to have the wood covered with bright colors. It wasnt until the 17th and 18th centurties that people began to admire the finish of natural wood grains and patterns.
           
          Gavin Kinkade
          Kingdom of Trimaris
          (George Oakes)
          W4GLO


          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lambdakennels1@...
          Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:00 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] wood question

          Does birds-eye maple exist in Europe or is it strictly a North American phenomenon?  I know it is caused by a beetle biting the maple, and infecting it with a fungus that causes the birds-eye appearence.  What I don't know is the name of the beetle or fungus and if it exists in Europe, or did before 1600.  Does anyone know?  Thank you.

          Lady Stephanie Lilburn
          Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
          http://lambdafarm. mysite.com/
          Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
          K5AMK


          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___
          Click here for low prices on a huge selection of popcorn poppers!

        • Rebekah d'Avignon
          Here s a good explanation of birds-eye maple or bird s eye maple or birdseye maple. They can t agree on how to spell it much less what causes it.
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Here's a good explanation of birds-eye maple or bird's eye maple or birdseye maple. They can't agree on how to spell it much less what causes it.


            RdA
            Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com

          • scott gates
            Sugar Maples are North American only. Pretty much on the east side of the US. Some in lower Canada. Evil is, as Evil does To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Sugar Maples are North American only. Pretty much on the east side of the US. Some in lower Canada.


              Evil is, as Evil does



              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              From: lambdakennels1@...
              Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:00:15 +0000
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] wood question

              Does birds-eye maple exist in Europe or is it strictly a North American phenomenon?  I know it is caused by a beetle biting the maple, and infecting it with a fungus that causes the birds-eye appearence.  What I don't know is the name of the beetle or fungus and if it exists in Europe, or did before 1600.  Does anyone know?  Thank you.

              Lady Stephanie Lilburn
              Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
              http://lambdafarm. mysite.com/
              Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
              K5AMK


              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___
              Click here for low prices on a huge selection of popcorn poppers!




              Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Invite friends now!
            • i_odlin
              ... No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn t become any more correct. If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                > painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                > left bare and unfinished

                No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                become any more correct.

                If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...

                -Iain of Malagentia
              • Oakes, George
                Ouch that was harsh. Maybe next time I will keep my opinion to myself. Sorry to have offended. ________________________________ From:
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ouch that was harsh.
                   
                  Maybe next time I will keep my opinion to myself.
                   
                  Sorry to have offended.
                   
                   
                   
                   


                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of i_odlin
                  Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:30 PM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question

                  --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                  wrote:

                  >
                  > On the other hand
                  if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                  > painted anyway, as it
                  was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                  > left bare and
                  unfinished

                  No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                  become any more correct.

                  If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                  manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                  was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                  amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...

                  -Iain of Malagentia

                • leaking pen
                  Seriously. I have seen pleny of sources of the, everything for nobles was painted, commoner stuff was left unpainted. Do you have some direct sources for
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Seriously. I have seen pleny of sources of the, everything for nobles
                    was painted, commoner stuff was left unpainted. Do you have some
                    direct sources for your statement that that widely held conception is
                    false?

                    On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Oakes, George <goakes@...> wrote:
                    > Ouch that was harsh.
                    >
                    > Maybe next time I will keep my opinion to myself.
                    >
                    > Sorry to have offended.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of i_odlin
                    > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:30 PM
                    > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question
                    >
                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >>
                    >> On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                    >> painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                    >> left bare and unfinished
                    >
                    > No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                    > become any more correct.
                    >
                    > If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                    > manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                    > was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                    > amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...
                    >
                    > -Iain of Malagentia
                    >
                    >
                  • Copernicus Skygazer
                    Well, I know of one 16th century chest, with gorgeous wood inlay and carving at the Walters Museum in Baltimore that was clearly not painted at all, and hardly
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well, I know of one 16th century chest, with gorgeous wood inlay and
                      carving at the Walters Museum in Baltimore that was clearly not painted at
                      all, and hardly for a commoner. So obviously both were done in period. And
                      it's always hard to tell from illuminations due to the little "artistic
                      licences" taken.

                      And you also have to be careful with "painted" pieces in museums. The
                      original may not have been painted, and painted in a latter age, or had
                      been painted and the paint worn off disappeared. (the one in the walters
                      was obviously not painted, and the finish was so well done, I'm jealous of
                      someone who has been dead for 4-5 centuries).

                      So, as both were done, you can choose which way to go with your work, and
                      possibly document either if you wish. At this particular age of humanity,
                      we once again tend to abhor hiding beautiful wood grain with paint, which
                      influences our work on "medieval" pieces. And while I have no evidence at
                      this time, it's quite possible such things went in and out of fashion
                      during the history of Europe as well.

                      YIS,
                      Phillipos the Skeptic, OL

                      On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, leaking pen wrote:

                      > Seriously. I have seen pleny of sources of the, everything for nobles
                      > was painted, commoner stuff was left unpainted. Do you have some
                      > direct sources for your statement that that widely held conception is
                      > false?
                      >
                      > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Oakes, George <goakes@...> wrote:
                      >> Ouch that was harsh.
                      >>
                      >> Maybe next time I will keep my opinion to myself.
                      >>
                      >> Sorry to have offended.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ________________________________
                      >> From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      >> [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of i_odlin
                      >> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:30 PM
                      >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question
                      >>
                      >> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                      >> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                      >>> painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                      >>> left bare and unfinished
                      >>
                      >> No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                      >> become any more correct.
                      >>
                      >> If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                      >> manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                      >> was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                      >> amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...
                      >>
                      >> -Iain of Malagentia
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Tracy Swanson
                      Actually, a Faux Bois, or false wood finish is quite quick and easy to apply - it just looks as though it took forever, because the layers of paint are only
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Actually, a Faux Bois, or false wood finish is quite quick and easy to apply - it just looks as though it took forever, because the layers of paint are only partially opaque, allowing the lower coats to show through. Having worked backstage, I have painted faux bois and faux stone on many occasions. Most of the sets on Lyric's presentation of The Unsinkable Molly Brown was done in faux bois, by me. I was only painting that finish for three days, including the platforms that were grained as well.
                         
                        In Magical Service,
                        Malaki
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of i_odlin
                        Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 1:30 PM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question



                        If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                        manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                        was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                        amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...

                        -Iain of Malagentia

                        .

                      • Ralph Lindberg
                        ... of the US. Some in lower Canada. ... True, at least native. I know it s been planted in Europe though. Also many types of Maple still will exhibit the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, scott gates <bitterpluto@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Sugar Maples are North American only. Pretty much on the east side
                          of the US. Some in lower Canada.
                          >
                          True, at least native. I know it's been planted in Europe though.

                          Also many types of Maple still will exhibit the figure called
                          "birds-eye", beyond Sugar: Bigleaf, Rock, Vine, etc.

                          My guess is yes, birds-eye was known, and probably treasured. From
                          what I have seen, in items that were never painted, there has always
                          been a demand for highly figured wood.

                          TTFN
                          Ralg
                          AnTir
                        • David Stous
                          Ralg, Just as a point of information from someone who lives in the Maple Sugar capital of the planet (St. Albans, Franklin county, Vermont, USA). You mentioned
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ralg,
                            Just as a point of information from someone who lives in the Maple Sugar capital of the planet (St. Albans, Franklin county, Vermont, USA).
                             
                            You mentioned the same wood twice.  Sugar Maple and Rock Maple are the same thing.
                             
                            YIS,
                            Dafydd of Verulanium
                            ====
                            mka
                            David Stous
                            Chief Maille Smith
                            Wolf's Den Armoury
                            St. Albans, VT USA
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:24 PM
                            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question

                            --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, scott gates <bitterpluto@ ...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Sugar Maples are North American only. Pretty much on the east side
                            of the US. Some in lower Canada.
                            >
                            True, at least native. I know it's been planted in Europe though.

                            Also many types of Maple still will exhibit the figure called
                            "birds-eye", beyond Sugar: Bigleaf, Rock, Vine, etc.

                            My guess is yes, birds-eye was known, and probably treasured. From
                            what I have seen, in items that were never painted, there has always
                            been a demand for highly figured wood.

                            TTFN
                            Ralg
                            AnTir

                          • AlbionWood
                            If you look through 15th -16th c. illuminations (and paintings, and tapestries) you will indeed see a lot of unpainted furniture. You can also find quite a lot
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              If you look through 15th -16th c. illuminations (and paintings, and tapestries) you will indeed see a lot of unpainted furniture.  You can also find quite a lot of it in museums, including some very high-quality (and obviously upper-market) carved pieces.  But go to 13th c. French MSS and you will search in vain for a piece of unpainted wooden furniture!  (In fact it's hard to find a piece of 13th c. French _stone_ that wasn't painted.  They really like their polychrome in 13th c. France.)  Even in 14th c. Northern European paintings and MSS you rarely see any unpainted wooden furniture.  Go back to the 12th c. and earlier, and the art is usually not representational enough to really tell.

                              So, it's not a "tired trope," in fact there is a great deal of evidence to support the idea that most upper-class furniture (and virtually all devotional sculpture) in the early and "high" Middle Ages (i.e. up to about the 15th c.) was painted.  In the late MA and Early Modern period, from about 1450, there is substantial evidence to show that a lot of furniture (and some devotional sculpture as well; esp. German) was unpainted, even in very upper-class settings.

                              Can we please remember to include some temporal and cultural referents to identify the "period" we are talking about, whenever we make these kinds of statements?  Thanks.

                              Cheers,
                              Colin



                              i_odlin wrote:
                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                              wrote:
                                
                              On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                              painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                              left bare and unfinished
                                  
                              No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                              become any more correct.
                              
                              If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                              manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                              was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                              amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...
                              
                              -Iain of Malagentia
                              
                                
                            • julian wilson
                              ... QUOTE If you look through 15th -16th c. illuminations (and paintings, and tapestries) you will indeed see a lot of unpainted furniture. You can also find
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 13, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- On Fri, 13/6/08, AlbionWood <albionwood@...> wrote:
                                QUOTE
                                If you look through 15th -16th c. illuminations (and paintings, and tapestries) you will indeed see a lot of unpainted furniture. You can also find quite a lot of it in museums, including some very high-quality (and obviously upper-market) carved pieces. But go to 13th c. French MSS and you will search in vain for a piece of unpainted wooden furniture! SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                                Can we please remember to include some temporal and cultural referents to identify the "period" we are talking about, whenever we make these kinds of statements? UNQUOTE

                                COMMENT
                                Thank you, Colin, I couldn't have described the situation any better myself. The "Treaty of Calais Chest" comes to mind as an example of an artifact which has remained in Government archives ever since the signing of the Treaty, and is therefore unlikely to have been re-decorated at any time. It's very-thoroughly painted; and the paintwork is original to the time of the Treaty.
                                There are pictures of the chest on line.
                                I realise that "one swallow doesn't make a summer" - but I was aware [in making my own earlier statements on this subject elsewhere]  -  of the existance of at least some of the 13th and 14th century illustrations that you cite. And of the highly-organised supra-national Trading network that covered the whole of Western Europe during that period.
                                "Fashion" was then - [and to a certain extent is now - ] a high-value, low-weight trade item,  - and I have always argued that those burghers, gentles, and Nobles with the money to spend would have "followed the fashions" whenever possible.
                                 
                                Servus,
                                Matthew Baker
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.