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Re: [medievalsawdust] wood question

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  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
    ... English Oak...I didn t know that either.... http://www.cloudberryfurniture.se/english/oak.html ===== Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 7, 2002
      >
      > What the heck is Querqus rubrawhatchamacallit?
      >
      >
      > -Charlie

      English Oak...I didn't know that either....

      http://www.cloudberryfurniture.se/english/oak.html

      =====
      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '

      __________________________________________________
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    • Joseph Hayes
      ... Querqus robur = English oak Querqus rubra = Red Oak Querqus alba = White Oak UvL __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 7, 2002
        --- vinlandar <vinlandar@...> wrote:
        > What the heck is Querqus rubrawhatchamacallit?

        Querqus robur = English oak
        Querqus rubra = Red Oak
        Querqus alba = White Oak

        UvL


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      • vinlandar
        ooOOOOohhhh.... Thanks, :-) -Charlie
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 7, 2002
          ooOOOOohhhh.... Thanks, :-)

          -Charlie



          --- In medievalsawdust@y..., Joseph Hayes <von_landstuhl@y...> wrote:
          >
          > --- vinlandar <vinlandar@c...> wrote:
          > > What the heck is Querqus rubrawhatchamacallit?
          >
          > Querqus robur = English oak
          > Querqus rubra = Red Oak
          > Querqus alba = White Oak
          >
          > UvL
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
          > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
        • lambdakennels1@juno.com
          Does birds-eye maple exist in Europe or is it strictly a North American phenomenon? I know it is caused by a beetle biting the maple, and infecting it with a
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 11, 2008
            Does birds-eye maple exist in Europe or is it strictly a North American phenomenon?  I know it is caused by a beetle biting the maple, and infecting it with a fungus that causes the birds-eye appearence.  What I don't know is the name of the beetle or fungus and if it exists in Europe, or did before 1600.  Does anyone know?  Thank you.

            Lady Stephanie Lilburn
            Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
            http://lambdafarm.mysite.com/
            Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
            K5AMK


            ____________________________________________________________
            Click here for low prices on a huge selection of popcorn poppers!

          • Oakes, George
            Oh gosh, I can t answer your question, in fact I didn t even know it was a beetle that cause the imperfection. But its such a beautiful wood!! If your
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
              Oh gosh, I can't answer your question, in fact I didn't even know it was a beetle that cause the imperfection.
               
              But its such a beautiful wood!! If your considering making a period item from it, and are leaning away from the wood because it "May NOT have existed in Period" and of course its not for an Art/Sci Project, by all means use the wood. Its just so darn pretty.
               
              On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was left bare and unfinished, The nobles would spend lots of money to have the wood covered with bright colors. It wasnt until the 17th and 18th centurties that people began to admire the finish of natural wood grains and patterns.
               
              Gavin Kinkade
              Kingdom of Trimaris
              (George Oakes)
              W4GLO


              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lambdakennels1@...
              Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:00 PM
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] wood question

              Does birds-eye maple exist in Europe or is it strictly a North American phenomenon?  I know it is caused by a beetle biting the maple, and infecting it with a fungus that causes the birds-eye appearence.  What I don't know is the name of the beetle or fungus and if it exists in Europe, or did before 1600.  Does anyone know?  Thank you.

              Lady Stephanie Lilburn
              Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
              http://lambdafarm. mysite.com/
              Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
              K5AMK


              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___
              Click here for low prices on a huge selection of popcorn poppers!

            • Rebekah d'Avignon
              Here s a good explanation of birds-eye maple or bird s eye maple or birdseye maple. They can t agree on how to spell it much less what causes it.
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                Here's a good explanation of birds-eye maple or bird's eye maple or birdseye maple. They can't agree on how to spell it much less what causes it.


                RdA
                Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

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              • scott gates
                Sugar Maples are North American only. Pretty much on the east side of the US. Some in lower Canada. Evil is, as Evil does To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                  Sugar Maples are North American only. Pretty much on the east side of the US. Some in lower Canada.


                  Evil is, as Evil does



                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  From: lambdakennels1@...
                  Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:00:15 +0000
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] wood question

                  Does birds-eye maple exist in Europe or is it strictly a North American phenomenon?  I know it is caused by a beetle biting the maple, and infecting it with a fungus that causes the birds-eye appearence.  What I don't know is the name of the beetle or fungus and if it exists in Europe, or did before 1600.  Does anyone know?  Thank you.

                  Lady Stephanie Lilburn
                  Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
                  http://lambdafarm. mysite.com/
                  Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
                  K5AMK


                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___
                  Click here for low prices on a huge selection of popcorn poppers!




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                • i_odlin
                  ... No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn t become any more correct. If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                    > painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                    > left bare and unfinished

                    No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                    become any more correct.

                    If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                    manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                    was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                    amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...

                    -Iain of Malagentia
                  • Oakes, George
                    Ouch that was harsh. Maybe next time I will keep my opinion to myself. Sorry to have offended. ________________________________ From:
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                      Ouch that was harsh.
                       
                      Maybe next time I will keep my opinion to myself.
                       
                      Sorry to have offended.
                       
                       
                       
                       


                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of i_odlin
                      Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:30 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question

                      --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                      wrote:

                      >
                      > On the other hand
                      if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                      > painted anyway, as it
                      was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                      > left bare and
                      unfinished

                      No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                      become any more correct.

                      If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                      manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                      was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                      amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...

                      -Iain of Malagentia

                    • leaking pen
                      Seriously. I have seen pleny of sources of the, everything for nobles was painted, commoner stuff was left unpainted. Do you have some direct sources for
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                        Seriously. I have seen pleny of sources of the, everything for nobles
                        was painted, commoner stuff was left unpainted. Do you have some
                        direct sources for your statement that that widely held conception is
                        false?

                        On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Oakes, George <goakes@...> wrote:
                        > Ouch that was harsh.
                        >
                        > Maybe next time I will keep my opinion to myself.
                        >
                        > Sorry to have offended.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of i_odlin
                        > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:30 PM
                        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question
                        >
                        > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >>
                        >> On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                        >> painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                        >> left bare and unfinished
                        >
                        > No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                        > become any more correct.
                        >
                        > If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                        > manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                        > was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                        > amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...
                        >
                        > -Iain of Malagentia
                        >
                        >
                      • Copernicus Skygazer
                        Well, I know of one 16th century chest, with gorgeous wood inlay and carving at the Walters Museum in Baltimore that was clearly not painted at all, and hardly
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                          Well, I know of one 16th century chest, with gorgeous wood inlay and
                          carving at the Walters Museum in Baltimore that was clearly not painted at
                          all, and hardly for a commoner. So obviously both were done in period. And
                          it's always hard to tell from illuminations due to the little "artistic
                          licences" taken.

                          And you also have to be careful with "painted" pieces in museums. The
                          original may not have been painted, and painted in a latter age, or had
                          been painted and the paint worn off disappeared. (the one in the walters
                          was obviously not painted, and the finish was so well done, I'm jealous of
                          someone who has been dead for 4-5 centuries).

                          So, as both were done, you can choose which way to go with your work, and
                          possibly document either if you wish. At this particular age of humanity,
                          we once again tend to abhor hiding beautiful wood grain with paint, which
                          influences our work on "medieval" pieces. And while I have no evidence at
                          this time, it's quite possible such things went in and out of fashion
                          during the history of Europe as well.

                          YIS,
                          Phillipos the Skeptic, OL

                          On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, leaking pen wrote:

                          > Seriously. I have seen pleny of sources of the, everything for nobles
                          > was painted, commoner stuff was left unpainted. Do you have some
                          > direct sources for your statement that that widely held conception is
                          > false?
                          >
                          > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Oakes, George <goakes@...> wrote:
                          >> Ouch that was harsh.
                          >>
                          >> Maybe next time I will keep my opinion to myself.
                          >>
                          >> Sorry to have offended.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ________________________________
                          >> From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          >> [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of i_odlin
                          >> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:30 PM
                          >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question
                          >>
                          >> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                          >> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                          >>> painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                          >>> left bare and unfinished
                          >>
                          >> No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                          >> become any more correct.
                          >>
                          >> If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                          >> manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                          >> was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                          >> amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...
                          >>
                          >> -Iain of Malagentia
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Tracy Swanson
                          Actually, a Faux Bois, or false wood finish is quite quick and easy to apply - it just looks as though it took forever, because the layers of paint are only
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                            Actually, a Faux Bois, or false wood finish is quite quick and easy to apply - it just looks as though it took forever, because the layers of paint are only partially opaque, allowing the lower coats to show through. Having worked backstage, I have painted faux bois and faux stone on many occasions. Most of the sets on Lyric's presentation of The Unsinkable Molly Brown was done in faux bois, by me. I was only painting that finish for three days, including the platforms that were grained as well.
                             
                            In Magical Service,
                            Malaki
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of i_odlin
                            Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 1:30 PM
                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question



                            If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                            manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                            was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                            amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...

                            -Iain of Malagentia

                            .

                          • Ralph Lindberg
                            ... of the US. Some in lower Canada. ... True, at least native. I know it s been planted in Europe though. Also many types of Maple still will exhibit the
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, scott gates <bitterpluto@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Sugar Maples are North American only. Pretty much on the east side
                              of the US. Some in lower Canada.
                              >
                              True, at least native. I know it's been planted in Europe though.

                              Also many types of Maple still will exhibit the figure called
                              "birds-eye", beyond Sugar: Bigleaf, Rock, Vine, etc.

                              My guess is yes, birds-eye was known, and probably treasured. From
                              what I have seen, in items that were never painted, there has always
                              been a demand for highly figured wood.

                              TTFN
                              Ralg
                              AnTir
                            • David Stous
                              Ralg, Just as a point of information from someone who lives in the Maple Sugar capital of the planet (St. Albans, Franklin county, Vermont, USA). You mentioned
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                                Ralg,
                                Just as a point of information from someone who lives in the Maple Sugar capital of the planet (St. Albans, Franklin county, Vermont, USA).
                                 
                                You mentioned the same wood twice.  Sugar Maple and Rock Maple are the same thing.
                                 
                                YIS,
                                Dafydd of Verulanium
                                ====
                                mka
                                David Stous
                                Chief Maille Smith
                                Wolf's Den Armoury
                                St. Albans, VT USA
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:24 PM
                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: wood question

                                --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, scott gates <bitterpluto@ ...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Sugar Maples are North American only. Pretty much on the east side
                                of the US. Some in lower Canada.
                                >
                                True, at least native. I know it's been planted in Europe though.

                                Also many types of Maple still will exhibit the figure called
                                "birds-eye", beyond Sugar: Bigleaf, Rock, Vine, etc.

                                My guess is yes, birds-eye was known, and probably treasured. From
                                what I have seen, in items that were never painted, there has always
                                been a demand for highly figured wood.

                                TTFN
                                Ralg
                                AnTir

                              • AlbionWood
                                If you look through 15th -16th c. illuminations (and paintings, and tapestries) you will indeed see a lot of unpainted furniture. You can also find quite a lot
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jun 12, 2008
                                  If you look through 15th -16th c. illuminations (and paintings, and tapestries) you will indeed see a lot of unpainted furniture.  You can also find quite a lot of it in museums, including some very high-quality (and obviously upper-market) carved pieces.  But go to 13th c. French MSS and you will search in vain for a piece of unpainted wooden furniture!  (In fact it's hard to find a piece of 13th c. French _stone_ that wasn't painted.  They really like their polychrome in 13th c. France.)  Even in 14th c. Northern European paintings and MSS you rarely see any unpainted wooden furniture.  Go back to the 12th c. and earlier, and the art is usually not representational enough to really tell.

                                  So, it's not a "tired trope," in fact there is a great deal of evidence to support the idea that most upper-class furniture (and virtually all devotional sculpture) in the early and "high" Middle Ages (i.e. up to about the 15th c.) was painted.  In the late MA and Early Modern period, from about 1450, there is substantial evidence to show that a lot of furniture (and some devotional sculpture as well; esp. German) was unpainted, even in very upper-class settings.

                                  Can we please remember to include some temporal and cultural referents to identify the "period" we are talking about, whenever we make these kinds of statements?  Thanks.

                                  Cheers,
                                  Colin



                                  i_odlin wrote:
                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Oakes, George" <goakes@...>
                                  wrote:
                                    
                                  On the other hand if you are going for "Period" then most wood was
                                  painted anyway, as it was considered "Poor Quality" if the wood was
                                  left bare and unfinished
                                      
                                  No matter how many times this tired trope gets repeated, it doesn't
                                  become any more correct.
                                  
                                  If you spend any time whatsoever looking though illuminated
                                  manuscripts, you start to discover that most period furniture depicted
                                  was either left unpainted or medieval craftsmen spent mind-boggling
                                  amounts of time painting faux woodgrain on their wood furniture...
                                  
                                  -Iain of Malagentia
                                  
                                    
                                • julian wilson
                                  ... QUOTE If you look through 15th -16th c. illuminations (and paintings, and tapestries) you will indeed see a lot of unpainted furniture. You can also find
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jun 13, 2008
                                    --- On Fri, 13/6/08, AlbionWood <albionwood@...> wrote:
                                    QUOTE
                                    If you look through 15th -16th c. illuminations (and paintings, and tapestries) you will indeed see a lot of unpainted furniture. You can also find quite a lot of it in museums, including some very high-quality (and obviously upper-market) carved pieces. But go to 13th c. French MSS and you will search in vain for a piece of unpainted wooden furniture! SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                                    Can we please remember to include some temporal and cultural referents to identify the "period" we are talking about, whenever we make these kinds of statements? UNQUOTE

                                    COMMENT
                                    Thank you, Colin, I couldn't have described the situation any better myself. The "Treaty of Calais Chest" comes to mind as an example of an artifact which has remained in Government archives ever since the signing of the Treaty, and is therefore unlikely to have been re-decorated at any time. It's very-thoroughly painted; and the paintwork is original to the time of the Treaty.
                                    There are pictures of the chest on line.
                                    I realise that "one swallow doesn't make a summer" - but I was aware [in making my own earlier statements on this subject elsewhere]  -  of the existance of at least some of the 13th and 14th century illustrations that you cite. And of the highly-organised supra-national Trading network that covered the whole of Western Europe during that period.
                                    "Fashion" was then - [and to a certain extent is now - ] a high-value, low-weight trade item,  - and I have always argued that those burghers, gentles, and Nobles with the money to spend would have "followed the fashions" whenever possible.
                                     
                                    Servus,
                                    Matthew Baker
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