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RE: [medievalsawdust] Plan for Cedar

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  • Dragano Abbruciati
    Okay - that s why I asked. Bill McNutt wrote:That s too thin, bwana. They ll split/warp. Rip them to 1 3/4 for drying, then again to 3/4
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 3, 2004
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      Okay - that's why I asked.

      Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:
      That's too thin, bwana.  They'll split/warp.

      Rip them to 1 3/4" for drying, then again to 3/4 when you're ready to
      start work.

      Just my two drachmas.  I've only worked "from the log" a couple of times
      myself, take it for what it's worth.

      Will

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dragano Abbruciati de Genoese
      [mailto:dragano_abbruciati@...]

      I will then "quarter-saw" the logs and rip (with a hand saw) the
      boards to about 3/4" thickness.  I will reseal any ends that need to
      be redone and stack the boards (1" air space all the way around) for
      drying.  I don't have an attic and I don't have room in the house for
      this process, so my shed will have to do.



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    • Dragano Abbruciati
      English is no big stretch. I d like to see the pics. Dragano Bill McNutt wrote: You can never have too many chests/boxes. And cedar is
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 3, 2004
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        English is no big stretch.  I'd like to see the pics.
         
        Dragano

        Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:
        You can never have too many chests/boxes.  And cedar is great for long
        term storage of garb.

        I've got some great pictures of a 14th century document chest you could
        adapt, shot straight from the artifact last april.  It's English,
        though.  I'll be doing a show-and-tell discussion about the chest and
        pictures at my class at Gulf Wars, "Getting Things Off Their Chest."

        At least they THINK it's 14th century.  Their receipt shows that it was
        purchased used in the middle 1300's.  It could be earlier.  It's quite
        the sturdy box.

        Will

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Dragano Abbruciati de Genoese
        [mailto:dragano_abbruciati@...]

        I am strongly leaning toward making a chest with the wood.  I don't
        think I can get enough wood for two chairs out of the logs and I
        don't want to get THAT look from my lady when I'm resting in the
        single peiod chair in the camp. (:-} Anyway, I have a year to think
        about it.

        Do any of you have a good reference for a 14C chest, Genoese perhaps,
        that I could look at while I watch my wood dry?

        Thank you all for your input.

        Dragano







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      • Bill McNutt
        I ll be holding an on-line version of Getting Things Off Their Chest after Gulf Wars, so I ll publish them on-line then. They re high-rez, over 2 mb apiece,
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 3, 2004
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          I’ll be holding an on-line version of “Getting Things Off Their Chest” after Gulf Wars, so I’ll publish them on-line then.

           

          They’re high-rez, over 2 mb apiece, and I don’t have time right now to shrink them to a reasonable size.

           

          Will

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Dragano Abbruciati [mailto:dragano_abbruciati@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:15 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [medievalsawdust] Plan for Cedar

           

          English is no big stretch.  I'd like to see the pics.

           

          Dragano

          Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:

          You can never have too many chests/boxes.  And cedar is great for long
          term storage of garb.

          I've got some great pictures of a 14th century document chest you could
          adapt, shot straight from the artifact last april.  It's English,
          though.  I'll be doing a show-and-tell discussion about the chest and
          pictures at my class at Gulf Wars, "Getting Things Off Their Chest."

          At least they THINK it's 14th century.  Their receipt shows that it was
          purchased used in the middle 1300's.  It could be earlier.  It's quite
          the sturdy box.

          Will

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Dragano Abbruciati de Genoese
          [mailto:dragano_abbruciati@...]

          I am strongly leaning toward making a chest with the wood.  I don't
          think I can get enough wood for two chairs out of the logs and I
          don't want to get THAT look from my lady when I'm resting in the
          single peiod chair in the camp. (:-} Anyway, I have a year to think
          about it.

          Do any of you have a good reference for a 14C chest, Genoese perhaps,
          that I could look at while I watch my wood dry?

          Thank you all for your input.

          Dragano







          Yahoo! Groups Links






          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster.

        • Dragano Abbruciati
          That ll be fine. I can t even start for a year anyway! Dragano Bill McNutt wrote: v :* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o :*
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 3, 2004
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            That'll be fine.  I can't even start for a year anyway!
             
            Dragano

            Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:

            I�ll be holding an on-line version of �Getting Things Off Their Chest� after Gulf Wars, so I�ll publish them on-line then.

             

            They�re high-rez, over 2 mb apiece, and I don�t have time right now to shrink them to a reasonable size.

             

            Will

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Dragano Abbruciati [mailto:dragano_abbruciati@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:15 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [medievalsawdust] Plan for Cedar

             

            English is no big stretch.  I'd like to see the pics.

             

            Dragano

            Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:

            You can never have too many chests/boxes.  And cedar is great for long
            term storage of garb.

            I've got some great pictures of a 14th century document chest you could
            adapt, shot straight from the artifact last april.  It's English,
            though.  I'll be doing a show-and-tell discussion about the chest and
            pictures at my class at Gulf Wars, "Getting Things Off Their Chest."

            At least they THINK it's 14th century.  Their receipt shows that it was
            purchased used in the middle 1300's.  It could be earlier.  It's quite
            the sturdy box.

            Will

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Dragano Abbruciati de Genoese
            [mailto:dragano_abbruciati@...]

            I am strongly leaning toward making a chest with the wood.  I don't
            think I can get enough wood for two chairs out of the logs and I
            don't want to get THAT look from my lady when I'm resting in the
            single peiod chair in the camp. (:-} Anyway, I have a year to think
            about it.

            Do any of you have a good reference for a 14C chest, Genoese perhaps,
            that I could look at while I watch my wood dry?

            Thank you all for your input.

            Dragano







            Yahoo! Groups Links






            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster.


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          • rmhowe
            ... You may never have encountered case hardening in unequally dried wood. This usually means the outside is drier than the inside [or vice versa] and the wood
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 12, 2004
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              Dragano Abbruciati wrote:
              > Okay - that's why I asked.
              >
              > Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:
              >
              > That's too thin, bwana. They'll split/warp.
              >
              > Rip them to 1 3/4" for drying, then again to 3/4 when you're ready to
              > start work.

              You may never have encountered case hardening in unequally dried wood.
              This usually means the outside is drier than the inside [or vice
              versa] and the wood can bend out from the kerf or close it entirely.

              The last is by far the most dangerous. The former is why the really
              old model tablesaws had the fence end stopping near the mid point
              of the blade. It prevented the wood between the blade and the fence
              from bellying itself back into the backside of the blade as it cut.
              Not very many mills and wood suppliers [or shops for that matter]
              had moisture meters back then. Not everyone knew how to cut wood
              accurately and weigh it for moisture content by species either
              which was the alternative. Generally it takes a year per inch
              of thickness for air-drying assuming you don't live in a high
              humidity area. Wood being hygroscopic it can gain and lose
              moisture content from the air.

              Apart from the fact that unequal drying causes board warping
              when cut it can also clamp right down on the saw blade so hard
              [even with a 7 1/2 hp saw] it will stop it and that you may find
              you can't safely let it go with a single hand to turn off the
              saw motor before it burns it out. Saw motors are seldom cheap,
              it halts production for days sometimes. Single phase capacitors
              that can burn out when the starting windings come back on at
              lower speeds (the starter winding's centrifugal cut off switch
              in the motor reengages) are much faster to replace but still a
              pain to go get from a motor repair or electrical supply shop
              {assuming you know how to use a multi-meter to diagnose whether
              you have burnt out windings or one or sometimes two burnt
              out capacitors.

              Having fixed large machinery for years in many shops I have a
              bit of experience with this. Specific training in it too.

              At one furniture shop I ran we occaisionally encountered
              this in the thicker stuff [in our case usually maple] and being as
              how I had a foot thick+ solid brick wall behind me I decided it was
              better to sidestep and simply let go. We'd already crosscut the
              pieces to appropriate lengths after we'd marked out the patterns
              on them for the larger pieces for the legs, etc. Smaller chunks
              got used for stretchers, etc. So we aren't talking whole planks
              flying through the air here. The thinner stuff usually wasn't
              that much of a problem as the thicker woods.

              Figure a 7 1/2 hp saw operating at 3450 or so rpm x 14"
              [blade size] x 3.14 [circumference] divided by 12 inches to
              obtain feet per minute or you can divide it further
              by 60 (for seconds) and you can come up with some terrific
              velocities should you NOT be able to hold the -now clamped itself
              to the blade- piece safely with only ONE hand while you try to turn
              it off. I certainly have.

              I've seen huge boards thrown 50 feet down the length of a very
              large shop horizontally right into the end doors by some morons
              who took their hands off of or backed up on a cut on them.
              You only have to back up a small amount for the saw to grab
              and throw the boards sometimes.

              I saw one moron on a -huge- saw simply stop in mid kerf and
              walk away to talk to someone when two guys were behind him
              downrange of the very same saw. As they were bent
              down working at the time it may well have proved deadly.
              Then he had the gall to get mad when I cussed him out about
              nearly killing his co-workers. I'd gotten there as fast as
              I could to grab the plank (a ten foot 2x10) and turn the
              saw off. Wish I'd had the power to fire him, but then I was
              working for the state then. If it had been one of the shops I
              had run as the foreman he would have been gone immediately.

              Having twice been hit really good and hard with a chunk of wood and
              a chunk of plastic {that one caused a foot sole sized instant purple/
              yellow bruise on my abomen} I'd rather sidestep and let go myself
              assuming no one was behind me. The wood one happened one of the
              first times I ever operated a large sized tablesaw in Industrial
              Arts woodshop class and the other happened when I was the main
              fabricator in a plastics plant and the open bottomed saw box managed
              to fill itself up with 6" shreds of the 3/4" thick plastic I couldn't
              see [or imagine] that I was cutting with a rip-saw and it grabbed
              a wad of those and brought it into the saw kerf thereby throwing
              the piece at me. IF there had been a point on it it would have
              gone through me I believe. If the blade is stopped when you let
              go you should have time to get your fingers by if you are fast.

              Although I suspect if you rip it ala Roy style with a handsaw you may
              not encounter the velocity. You might have the bottom few inches of
              the board split suddenly instead. This can happen on a tablesaw
              as well.

              There was a very interesting article in Woodwork about two/three
              years ago on how the English joiners may very well have cut their
              pieces to over-length and then split them a bit oversized with
              a froe, and then put them aside to air dry for making into joint
              stools, etc.

              >
              > Just my two drachmas. I've only worked "from the log" a couple of times
              > myself, take it for what it's worth.
              >
              > Will

              I really hope I don't ever repeat the experience I once had working as
              the head cabinetmaker at NCSU my last eight years [before I became
              disabled with a neuro/muscular disease].

              Some idiot [minor department head] had the idea of slabbing out
              a large tree that had grown on the campus for most of it's then
              hundred years and died. They cut it down and we had to slab
              large chunks of the thing on a huge 36" woodshop vertical bandsaw.
              This involved making a cradle to use in conjuction with the
              fence and screwing the ends of it to the log. One end was made
              movable in the length of the cradle, one end was simply fixed
              to the side and base of it. The whole thing was slid through
              carefully by two of us in the process.

              We had imagined that it would be put to some commemorative use.
              We used to make various plaques and awards for the university
              to give, and even the moldings for frames for paper ones, with
              custom ground shaper knives made by me, right in the shop.
              That is an interesting experience - making duplicate blades
              that have to be correct and blalanced to clamp into a corrugated
              head that revolves at high speed. So after making some really
              odd other stuff this request didn't seem that out of bounds.

              After we busted our a**es for a couple of days and finished the
              job we learned the idiot thought the wood would be useful for
              stakes for landscaping purposes.

              I wished I'd had the remainder of the tree to beat him ugly with.
              Of course he may have been operating on the rule that we'd get fired
              for doing so. For the labor it cost it would have been cheaper to
              buy the wood by far finished. When the story got back to the senior
              budget supervisors he had a bit of serious explaining to do.
              Either way he was thereafter correctly labeled an idiot in his
              branch of the department and his ability to generate work order
              requests from other branches was severely curtailed without
              higher approval.

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Dragano Abbruciati de Genoese
              > [mailto:dragano_abbruciati@...]
              >
              > I will then "quarter-saw" the logs and rip (with a hand saw) the
              > boards to about 3/4" thickness. I will reseal any ends that need to
              > be redone and stack the boards (1" air space all the way around) for
              > drying. I don't have an attic and I don't have room in the house for
              > this process, so my shed will have to do.

              Or a good tarp. The problem is when case hardening begins an experienced
              kiln operator will realize it and rewet the outside of the boards so the
              pressures can equalize in the wood and allow it to dry correctly slower
              again. They actually spray them with garden hoses with sprinkler heads
              sometimes. An amateur may well have no idea it is happening or what
              to do about it. Humidity is generally adjusted in kilns, as is
              ventilation and heat.

              However, I do have some shelves in my shed covered with various chunks
              of pear and fruit trees that I hope one day to turn. The wife end-
              coated those for me.

              I've worked many tens of thousands of board feet at least in thicknesses
              up to 5+ inches or so. You never want to be one of five or six men
              having to handle a huge 5 or 6" thick, 2' wide, 16' long mahogany board.
              Moving them from a shed and then cutting them for huge bedpost blanks
              was a real struggle. It was anything but fun. That will herniate you.
              I'm still dealing with the results of a smashed toe from a 2 1/2" thick
              oak plank a quarter the size that some idiot let go of his side of
              when we were pulling it out of a rack. I still think of him fondly
              when I have a large hammer in hand. The doctor did less than a
              complete job of burning out the nail producing cells and it grew
              back in badly. Ever see Mel Gibson in Payback?

              Magnus
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