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Coopering

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  • James Kotsonis
    Dear Group, I am interested in traditional coopering. I have not made anything yet, I am gathering information at this point. Can any of you direct me to
    Message 1 of 14 , May 23, 2014
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      Dear Group,

      I am interested in traditional coopering.  I have not made anything yet, I am gathering information at this point.  Can any of you direct me to where I might need to go or to get information on medieval coopering?

      James
    • D. Young
      Swing by Facebook I have a group and we have a lot of information on coopering the title of the group is ancient medieval Renaissance and colonial woodwork and
      Message 2 of 14 , May 23, 2014
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        Swing by Facebook I have a group and we have a lot of information on coopering the title of the group is ancient medieval Renaissance and colonial woodwork and furniture... Just Google it you'll see us

        Sent from my iPhone

        On May 23, 2014, at 12:51 PM, "James Kotsonis jimkknives@... [medievalsawdust]" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

         

        Dear Group,

        I am interested in traditional coopering.  I have not made anything yet, I am gathering information at this point.  Can any of you direct me to where I might need to go or to get information on medieval coopering?

        James

      • Julian Wilson
        You could try the English Heritage Site Manager at Dover Castle. When English Heritage recently spent GB£millions in re-creating the medieval interiors of the
        Message 3 of 14 , May 23, 2014
        You could try the English Heritage Site Manager at Dover Castle. When English Heritage recently spent GB£millions in re-creating the medieval interiors of the Time of king Henry II, in the Great Tower there, they found themselves a Cooper who made barrels for them, bound together by withys instead of metal hoops, - lots of them, - for the outfitting of the medieval Kitchens. They might be willing to share the contact information with you. Whether those barrels and casks are actually liquid-tight is debatable, since no Cooper in the Western World has needed to make casks bound by withys instead of iron hoops for centuries. The barrels may have been constructed simply to look good for the English Heritage display. If I thought that the List would allow me to post a picture or two of the Great Tower's reconstructed kitchens [taken on my own visit there in 2011], I'd do so, - "a picture being worth a 1000 words". [ I'll try anyway, but if nothing shows up  for recipients, don't blame me - it will be the System refusing the jpg.'s]  I've had a look online via a Yahoo images search, but although there are a few pics of parts of the reconstructed kitchens, there are none showing those barrels.
        Julian Wilson,
         from "Old Jersey", 15 miles off the French Coast.




        On Friday, 23 May 2014, 17:51, "James Kotsonis jimkknives@... [medievalsawdust]" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


         
        Dear Group,

        I am interested in traditional coopering.  I have not made anything yet, I am gathering information at this point.  Can any of you direct me to where I might need to go or to get information on medieval coopering?

        James


      • kai_saerpren
        hi; i went looking for ancient medieval Renaissance and colonial woodwork and furniture and found squat K is the name correct?
        Message 4 of 14 , May 23, 2014
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          hi; i went looking for 
          "ancient medieval Renaissance and colonial woodwork and furniture" 
          and found squat
          K
          is the name correct?
           
        • Robert Capozello
          https://www.facebook.com/groups/233509476681641/ -- Marcellus From: kaisaerpren@gmail.com [medievalsawdust] ...
          Message 5 of 14 , May 23, 2014
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            -- Marcellus

            From: "kaisaerpren@... [medievalsawdust]" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 3:04 PM
            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Coopering

             
            hi; i went looking for 
            "ancient medieval Renaissance and colonial woodwork and furniture" 
            and found squat
            K
            is the name correct?
          • bsrlee
            You can find some basic information along with video of the tools in operation in various episodes of The Woodwright s Shop . More recent episodes (from 2006
            Message 6 of 14 , May 23, 2014
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              You can find some basic information along with video of the tools in operation in various episodes of 'The Woodwright's Shop'. More recent episodes (from 2006 to 2014) are available on-line at:

              http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/home/

              Roy is also having all the seasons of his show made up into DVD's in association with Popular Woodworking magazine, which you can get at their shop at:

              http://www.shopwoodworking.com/

              usually they have several seasons (out of 25 so far) for 25% off rrp, so its usually better to buy them there rather than Amazon.

              You will probably be having to make your own standing coopers plane if you want to do Living History demonstrations, otherwise you could make one by inletting an older iron plane into a five or six foot 4x4 or 6x6 and putting two legs at one end (or a jointer plane upside down in a vise with a wooden jig to hold the boards at the right angle). Again, unless you are lucky, you will have to make your own round plane and croze for finishing the inside of the ends and cutting the groove for the end to sit into respectively (a power router jig, a straight cutter and a slotting cutter can get you started). If you want the inside of the barrel to be 'nice' then you will also want a couple of spokeshaves and/or drawknives - a straight one for the outside and a curved one for the inside of the staves - there are many modern manufacturers of suitable drawknives/spokeshaves such as Lie-Neilson, Barr Tools and Lee Valley if you don't want to go around the flea markets & tool shows and re-make your own.

              I'd suggest starting out 'simple' and making some straight sided buckets - you only need a longish plane for the most basic buckets, add a spokeshave/drawknife to make the outside nicer by shaving the staves. If it doesn't hold water it will still be useful for holding gear, filling with sand as a fire bucket or holding food such as fruit. Several people have posted on the Medieval Encampments list that barrels and buckets do not stay water tight when only used for a few days each year, so if you want really water tight buckets and barrels you are likely to have the most success with using glue and a slightly flexible sealer such as 'brewers pitch' (Jas. Townsend at http://jas-townsend.com/ sells it) or one of the polyurethane water tank sealers.

              Coopering has only been in my 'round tuit' basket for 30-ish years, so one day......................

              regards
              Brusi of Okney
              Rowany/Lochac

              On 24-May-14 2:51 AM, James Kotsonis jimkknives@... [medievalsawdust] wrote:
              Dear Group,

              I am interested in traditional coopering.  I have not made anything yet, I am gathering information at this point.  Can any of you direct me to where I might need to go or to get information on medieval coopering?

              James


            • henrikofhavn
              Something European focused craft interested people tend to overlook as a more recent resource is Asia. Not only is there a lot of third world life to be found
              Message 7 of 14 , May 24, 2014
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                Something European focused craft interested people tend to overlook as a more recent resource is Asia. Not only is there a lot of third world life to be found there, where things are still done by hand, but some crafts have been brought to near pinnical quality and status over the past recent centuries. Japan for instance has made many handcrafts into national treasure pursuits. Swordmaking brings the skills of blacksmithing to an artistic high. So to with ceramics and woodworking.

                There are numerous youtube clips of some of these Japanese crafts and perhaps there are others. 

                As for making Japanese buckets bound with vines ( such as dried whisteria vnes) or metal banding, that is a common craft still practiced in Japan. The wood used is typically "quartersawn" cedar that is actually split from a suitable length log with a curved froe, that is curved to match the curve of the bucket. The splits are planed on both sides to final shape with wooden bodied planes shaped for the task. The pieces are assembled together with the bindings and then a curf is cut inside , just above the bottom edge, to accept the bottom piece(s) which is then cut to size and finally forced down to rest on the ledge created for it.The sides usually taper outward a little to allow this, but could be forced inward if tapered sufficiently and bound by narrower bands, like western barrel staves do.

                it is important that the staves are cut radially cross grain, so the wood will expand sideways when wet, to seal the joints between staves in vessel.

                Binding can be done with any strong and stretch resistant material, such as windings of split bamboo, whisteria vines, twisted copper wire, riveted bands of metal, etc.

                Henrik

              • henrikofhavn
                If you want to see examples of Japanese cedar buckets go to a Japanese food utensil supplier and see their flat cedar buckets or trays which are used for
                Message 8 of 14 , May 24, 2014
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                  If you want to see examples of Japanese cedar "buckets" go to a Japanese food utensil supplier and see their flat cedar "buckets" or trays which are used for making sushi rice. The trays are about 4 to 6 inches tall and around 12 to 20 inches in diameter, all made from cedar staves bound to a cedar wood bottom with metal banding or twisted wire. Sushi restaurants may use them and may be willing for you to examine one if asked - or they may not, Take a chance and ask. The wood in the trays is needed since it helps absorb some of the water in the cooked rice to make it just firm enough to make into Nigiri Sushi and Maki sushi rolls. 

                  Henrik
                • James Kotsonis
                  Yup me too. I did not find that name. J
                  Message 9 of 14 , May 25, 2014
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                    Yup me too.  I did not find that name.

                    J
                  • James Kotsonis
                    Julian from Old Jersey , Thank you, I will give that a try. I appreciate the information and the pics. Have an exceptional day. James formerly from New
                    Message 10 of 14 , May 25, 2014
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                      Julian from "Old Jersey",

                      Thank you, I will give that a try.  I appreciate the information and the pics.  Have an exceptional day.

                      James formerly from "New York"
                    • D. Young
                      Whoops sorry the name is so long I write it fast I forget the full title: Ancient medieval colonial furniture and woodenware Sent from my iPhone
                      Message 11 of 14 , May 25, 2014
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                        Whoops sorry the name is so long I write it fast I forget the full title:

                        Ancient medieval colonial furniture and woodenware
                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On May 25, 2014, at 8:45 AM, "James Kotsonis jimkknives@... [medievalsawdust]" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                         

                        Yup me too.  I did not find that name.

                        J

                      • D. Young
                        On Facebook. 2000+ members so it s a big group Sent from my iPhone
                        Message 12 of 14 , May 25, 2014
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                          On Facebook. 2000+ members so it's a big group

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On May 25, 2014, at 11:03 AM, "'D. Young' furnaceplans@... [medievalsawdust]" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                           


                          Whoops sorry the name is so long I write it fast I forget the full title:

                          Ancient medieval colonial furniture and woodenware
                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On May 25, 2014, at 8:45 AM, "James Kotsonis jimkknives@... [medievalsawdust]" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                           

                          Yup me too.  I did not find that name.

                          J

                        • appelgarthe
                          Tillers International has the largest group of coopers in the US. They teach classes in coopering buckets, churns and barrels. They also have a class on making
                          Message 13 of 14 , May 27, 2014
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                            Tillers International has the largest group of coopers in the US. They teach classes in coopering buckets, churns and barrels. They also have a class on making coopering tools, which are harder than hens teeth to find. I recommend them highly.
                             
                            They are at :www.tillersinternational.org
                             
                            Master Nigel
                             
                             
                            In a message dated 5/23/2014 12:51:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com writes:
                             

                            Dear Group,

                            I am interested in traditional coopering.  I have not made anything yet, I am gathering information at this point.  Can any of you direct me to where I might need to go or to get information on medieval coopering?

                            James

                          • conradh@...
                            ... Check out How to Make a Coopered Wooden Bucket by James Gaster. Very detailed, including traditional leakproofing and a good description of needed
                            Message 14 of 14 , Jul 6 10:45 PM
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                              > Dear Group,
                              >
                              > I am interested in traditional coopering. I have not made anything yet, I
                              > am gathering information at this point. Can any of you direct me to where
                              > I might need to go or to get information on medieval coopering?
                              >
                              > James
                              >

                              Check out "How to Make a Coopered Wooden Bucket" by James Gaster. Very
                              detailed, including traditional leakproofing and a good description of
                              needed tools. (Including sources and substitutes, clear enough to help
                              with making your own.

                              ISBN 1-57921-798-2
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