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Labor saving electrons.

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  • Peter Ellison
    I have been processing the split oak into usable planks to make a carved box as a thank you gift for the gentle that gave me tree sections to work with. For my
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 16, 2013
      I have been processing the split oak into usable planks to make a carved box as a thank you gift for the gentle that gave me tree sections to work with.

      For my personal skills with a plane and draw knife it takes roughly 40 to 50 minutes to convert a billet into a board.  That covers both faces and the long edges, the end grain is left in the state it was.

      Ramming it through the power planer it takes roughly 5 to 10 minutes to go from a split wedge with a couple of passes on the draw knife to get a "flat enough to fit in the planer" to a board.  Although that does not include the time to square the edges since I don't own a power joiner, so add 10 or so minutes to the process for a ready to work board.

      So some place around 5:1 time saving.  The quality of the planks is similar, I don't like the surface from the planer the tiny little waves bug me, so I'll likely do a couple of smoothing plane passes to give the surfaces some character.

      For A&S projects I'll stick with working everything by hand because I like the results better.

      As a side note in the future I want to find a tree with less of a twist, that will reduce the labor a lot.  All of the boards I have been working I need to remove between a half inch per foot and and 1" per foot worth of twist.  I think that I can salvage some of the most twisty stuff my ramming it thought the power planer.



      Peter Petrovitch.



    • henrikofhavn
      When I was at Roskilde in 2004, they had an ongoing display of several videos showing the building of the Sea Stallion replica Viking Ship. One video showed
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 17, 2013

        When I was at Roskilde in 2004, they had an ongoing display of several videos showing the building of the Sea Stallion replica Viking Ship. One video showed splitting huge oak logs ( I estimate they were some 30 inches in diameter, or possibly larger), first in half, then quarters and then eighths.They used both iron and wooden wedges to split them after starting the split with iron wedges they finished with larger wooden ones, driven by large wooden headed mauls. Granted the grain seemed straight, but when splitting the planks out of the eighth splits, they used a frow sort of tool to give the split a directional tendency, as I recall. Pulling the "frow" handle in the direction the split should favor, is what I recall they did to get a straight split to hew the planks from. This caused the blade to turn towards the side of the split desired, so it continued on straight down the length. The edge of the frow blade may have been sharpened to facilitate this action. In any case after splitting off a plank blank ( which was still a wedge in cross section, they then used hand axes to trim it nearly flat. They frequently honed the axe blades to keep them sharp, as they worked the oak surfaces. When they got close to final shape they also used a drawknifr for smoothing the boards. The only place where I recall seeing wooden bodied planes being used was on the skived joints on the end of a plank where it overlapped another plank's end, to continue the 100 or so foot long run of a strake.


        A few years later I saw the same video on line at the Viking Ship Museum's web site. Now I'm not able to find any more. Anyone else know where to find it?


        Henrik


        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++   



        ---In medievalsawdust@{{emailDomain}}, <pellison@...> wrote:

        I have been processing the split oak into usable planks to make a carved box as a thank you gift for the gentle that gave me tree sections to work with.

        For my personal skills with a plane and draw knife it takes roughly 40 to 50 minutes to convert a billet into a board.  That covers both faces and the long edges, the end grain is left in the state it was.

        Ramming it through the power planer it takes roughly 5 to 10 minutes to go from a split wedge with a couple of passes on the draw knife to get a "flat enough to fit in the planer" to a board.  Although that does not include the time to square the edges since I don't own a power joiner, so add 10 or so minutes to the process for a ready to work board.

        So some place around 5:1 time saving.  The quality of the planks is similar, I don't like the surface from the planer the tiny little waves bug me, so I'll likely do a couple of smoothing plane passes to give the surfaces some character.

        For A&S projects I'll stick with working everything by hand because I like the results better.

        As a side note in the future I want to find a tree with less of a twist, that will reduce the labor a lot.  All of the boards I have been working I need to remove between a half inch per foot and and 1" per foot worth of twist.  I think that I can salvage some of the most twisty stuff my ramming it thought the power planer.



        Peter Petrovitch.



      • kai_saerpren
        Hi; 40 to 50 minutes to get 1 board/part? since I can t observe you working I can t tell you where you are going wrong. only that you are spending way way to
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 18, 2013

          Hi;

              40 to 50 minutes to get 1 board/part? since I can't observe you working I can't tell you where you are going wrong. 

              only that you are spending way way to much time planing and shaving. 

          if your log has to much (any) twist: it is either stock for round legs or it is firewood. I would use it for legs of chairs and stools.

              If your wood splits neatly, one or two swipes with the drawknife is all the first surface should need. the next should need little more, the 3rd surface since now you are getting into thickness or width, may need 4 or 5 pulls. check your construction/where this part/plank will be used,  

              If you are just making "boards" to dry for future projects: And if you must use twisty logs, try splitting (no shaving or planing) and then stacking/stickering with weight on top to flatten out the twist. they will dry the way they are held. if the twist is too severe to hold down with weights; try steaming them then weighing them down flat.

              Many parts historically were left as split on the "backs" where they were unseen and no joinery was connected. so many parts do not need any more shaping than 3 sides (face and 2 edges)


          Have fun and keep your tools sharp.

          K

          I myself use a bandsaw to plank gnarly logs into useable boards, good/(well set up) hand planes can then make nice surfaces after it dries.

        • Julian Wilson
          At my age, I like to have the friendly electrons do as much work as possible for me. Unless it s for a Client Museum that is prepared to pay me
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 18, 2013
            At my age, I like to have the friendly electrons do as much work as possible for me. Unless it's for a Client Museum that is prepared to pay me telephone-number prices to do all my wood-working by hand on their Project.
            Let's be real here - most of the general public don't have the specialized knowledge to distinguish between powered processes and hand processes, lacking a Lab. for detailed examination  in close-up. And in my experience, nor do they care. All they want is lowest-possible prices for commercial work. Time costs money. Master Crafter's handwork time costs a lot more money.
            A point though - if running rough-sawn Stock through your planer-thicknesser is leaving "little tiny waves" on the surface, than your feed-speed is too fast. Not too much of a problem with powered sanding, but a real time-eater to remove if you have to finish by hand with smoothing plane and hand-sanding.
            Matthewe.



            On Wednesday, 18 December 2013, 16:47, "kaisaerpren@..." <kaisaerpren@...> wrote:
             
            Hi;
                40 to 50 minutes to get 1 board/part? since I can't observe you working I can't tell you where you are going wrong. 
                only that you are spending way way to much time planing and shaving. 
            if your log has to much (any) twist: it is either stock for round legs or it is firewood. I would use it for legs of chairs and stools.
                If your wood splits neatly, one or two swipes with the drawknife is all the first surface should need. the next should need little more, the 3rd surface since now you are getting into thickness or width, may need 4 or 5 pulls. check your construction/where this part/plank will be used,  
                If you are just making "boards" to dry for future projects: And if you must use twisty logs, try splitting (no shaving or planing) and then stacking/stickering with weight on top to flatten out the twist. they will dry the way they are held. if the twist is too severe to hold down with weights; try steaming them then weighing them down flat.
                Many parts historically were left as split on the "backs" where they were unseen and no joinery was connected. so many parts do not need any more shaping than 3 sides (face and 2 edges)

            Have fun and keep your tools sharp.
            K
            I myself use a bandsaw to plank gnarly logs into useable boards, good/(well set up) hand planes can then make nice surfaces after it dries.


          • Peter Ellison
            I think my times are a little off, might be closer to 30 mins, I ll need to get out the stop watch (I did that on the last project). Here are several things
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 18, 2013
              I think my times are a little off, might be closer to 30 mins, I'll need to get out the stop watch (I did that on the last project).  Here are several things that I can think of that account for the time it takes.

              0. I'm still getting manual skills. :-)
              1. The log has a pretty major twist, I'm stuck with that for now, next time I will select a log that will not have as much twist.
              2. One major savings that I had not been doing was cutting withing 1/2" of the length of the final part.  As a result I have been working on more of the log than I need, which also causes me to pull more twist out.
              3. I'm still working out when to switch from roughing to more of a finishing plane.
              4. I need constant reminders to myself, if it looks square it is square.  Because of the twist I need to square up more than I should.

              In the end I'm not in a rush, so as long as I'm content playing quietly in the basement everyone is happy.

              Alas I don't own a bandsaw (on my wish list for "someday") long rip cuts suck.

              For an A&S project I'm freely willing to spend the time, eventually I'll get better, then it really is the journey that matters.  No one other than me would know how I got the project done, but I'll know :-)

              Hmm, the power planer marks might be caused by my cheap planer, it has a fixed speed, since all I have used it for is bulk stock removal it and I are a perfect match.  Once the surface is hand planed I don't do any thing else with it. Sanding is reserved for things that I can't figure out how to plane, and that has been less and less of late.

              I totally agree on the cost of working my hand, only a tiny fraction of the world could tell few are willing to pay for the time.


              Peter Petrovitch.


              On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:47 AM, <kaisaerpren@...> wrote:
               

              Hi;

                  40 to 50 minutes to get 1 board/part? since I can't observe you working I can't tell you where you are going wrong. 

                  only that you are spending way way to much time planing and shaving. 

              if your log has to much (any) twist: it is either stock for round legs or it is firewood. I would use it for legs of chairs and stools.

                  If your wood splits neatly, one or two swipes with the drawknife is all the first surface should need. the next should need little more, the 3rd surface since now you are getting into thickness or width, may need 4 or 5 pulls. check your construction/where this part/plank will be used,  

                  If you are just making "boards" to dry for future projects: And if you must use twisty logs, try splitting (no shaving or planing) and then stacking/stickering with weight on top to flatten out the twist. they will dry the way they are held. if the twist is too severe to hold down with weights; try steaming them then weighing them down flat.

                  Many parts historically were left as split on the "backs" where they were unseen and no joinery was connected. so many parts do not need any more shaping than 3 sides (face and 2 edges)


              Have fun and keep your tools sharp.

              K

              I myself use a bandsaw to plank gnarly logs into useable boards, good/(well set up) hand planes can then make nice surfaces after it dries.


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