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vises

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  • Jerry Harder
    We have talked about holdfasts but anyone gave any woodcuts, paintings, or photos of extant vices?
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 29, 2013
      We have talked about holdfasts but anyone gave any woodcuts, paintings,
      or photos of extant vices?
    • Peter Ellison
      It will take a me a but I know of at least one German bench of visible bench screws on it. I think it was 1505, it almost seems out of time. It is from an
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013
        It will take a me a but I know of at least one German bench of visible bench screws on it.  I think it was 1505, it almost seems out of time.  It is from an illumination, the front of the bench has two things that look like wingnuts for a face vice like thing.  Then there is a "wagon makers" style vice at the end of the bench.  It is a cool looking bench.

        If I recall correctly the more "traditional" cabinet makers bench is 1600 and beyond.

        My person option is that is because there is not a compelling reason for a vice till you start to deal with smaller pieces.  Holdfasts, benchdogs and dumb heads in things like a shaving horse are very efficient.

        There are a variety of things that do similar things to a vice, such as planing stops (there are a number of these that use wedges that date back to the Romans) the hook on the front of the bench.

        With all of that said, I love my leg vice it grabs very hard and is surprisingly versatile.


        Peter









        On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
         

        We have talked about holdfasts but anyone gave any woodcuts, paintings,
        or photos of extant vices?


      • Hall, Hayward
        http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/building-lute-original-methods This has a reference/picture of the Nuremburg bench vise c. 1505 , showing a fully developed
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013

          http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/building-lute-original-methods

           

          This has a reference/picture of the “Nuremburg bench vise c. 1505”, showing a fully developed tail vise and bench stops as well.  He also does a fantastic job of showing just what can be done with traditional clamping and holding methods.

           

          Guillaume

           

          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Ellison
          Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:29 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] vises

           




          It will take a me a but I know of at least one German bench of visible bench screws on it.  I think it was 1505, it almost seems out of time.  It is from an illumination, the front of the bench has two things that look like wingnuts for a face vice like thing.  Then there is a "wagon makers" style vice at the end of the bench.  It is a cool looking bench.

           

          If I recall correctly the more "traditional" cabinet makers bench is 1600 and beyond.

           

          My person option is that is because there is not a compelling reason for a vice till you start to deal with smaller pieces.  Holdfasts, benchdogs and dumb heads in things like a shaving horse are very efficient.

           

          There are a variety of things that do similar things to a vice, such as planing stops (there are a number of these that use wedges that date back to the Romans) the hook on the front of the bench.

           

          With all of that said, I love my leg vice it grabs very hard and is surprisingly versatile.

           

           

          Peter

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

          On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:

           

          We have talked about holdfasts but anyone gave any woodcuts, paintings,
          or photos of extant vices?

           




        • kai_saerpren
          Hi, you have probably seen the vises without knowing what you were looking at, re-look/review at all of the workbench pictures you have. See any square notches
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013

            Hi, you have probably seen the vises without knowing what you were looking at, re-look/review at all of the workbench pictures you have. See any square notches in the sides/ edges of the top? or of logs with legs with a square notch cut out of the top? these are vises, your workpiece is held in there by wedges and other scraps. often left out of the bench until the owner decided it needed to be there.

            K

            also see my roman bench vise that I have been using for decades.



            ---In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <hallh@...> wrote:

            http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/building-lute-original-methods

             

            This has a reference/picture of the “Nuremburg bench vise c. 1505”, showing a fully developed tail vise and bench stops as well.  He also does a fantastic job of showing just what can be done with traditional clamping and holding methods.

             

            Guillaume

             

            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Ellison
            Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:29 AM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] vises

             




            It will take a me a but I know of at least one German bench of visible bench screws on it.  I think it was 1505, it almost seems out of time.  It is from an illumination, the front of the bench has two things that look like wingnuts for a face vice like thing.  Then there is a "wagon makers" style vice at the end of the bench.  It is a cool looking bench.

             

            If I recall correctly the more "traditional" cabinet makers bench is 1600 and beyond.

             

            My person option is that is because there is not a compelling reason for a vice till you start to deal with smaller pieces.  Holdfasts, benchdogs and dumb heads in things like a shaving horse are very efficient.

             

            There are a variety of things that do similar things to a vice, such as planing stops (there are a number of these that use wedges that date back to the Romans) the hook on the front of the bench.

             

            With all of that said, I love my leg vice it grabs very hard and is surprisingly versatile.

             

             

            Peter

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

            On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:

             

            We have talked about holdfasts but anyone gave any woodcuts, paintings,
            or photos of extant vices?

             




          • Vels inn Viggladi
            ... Added a photo of a choir stall from Poland, dated 1280, to the photos on the group page. The joiner/carver is working at something that can only be
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013
              > From: geraldgoodwine@...
              >
              > We have talked about holdfasts but anyone gave any woodcuts, paintings,
              > or photos of extant vices?

              Added a photo of a choir stall from Poland, dated 1280, to the photos on the group page. The joiner/carver is working at something that can only be presumed to be some manner of bench vise. I suspect that the circular bits off the top and "far" end are the tabs of wedges for friction closing the jaws. http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/medievalsawdust/photos/albums/1209695688/lightbox/1087287628

              The entry for Hans Leupoltt in the Mendel II Hausbucher shows a leg vise being used to shape gunstocks (d. 1574).
              http://www.nuernberger-hausbuecher.de/75-Amb-2-317b-32-r

              The same resource, under Landaeur I, depicts bookbinder Hans Landawer using a double-screw press (d. 1532). http://www.nuernberger-hausbuecher.de/75-Amb-2-279-21-v

              The NY Met has a blacksmith's leg-vise dated to 1588. http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/202101

              The Philadelphia Museum of Art has an armorer's leg vise which it dates to the 15th century (1400-1500, not very specific). http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/44387.html?mulR=721638745|1

              The Vasa wreck includes a shipmakers' vise/clamp. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EfPyKj9O-ck/TaM0pQRK-OI/AAAAAAAADUw/O_2zLHO02wM/s1600/DSC00144.jpg

              Jumping ahead to the end of the 17th century, Felibien depicted large double-screw vises in his "Principles of Architecture." He specifically refers to them as "a vise for wood that uses screws" suggesting there are other types. http://lostartpress.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/felibien_workshop.jpg?w=640

              The guild table produced by Hans Kipferle includes a screw-clap, and the workbench suggests an end vise. (Marijn's blog) http://thomasguild.blogspot.com/2013/04/woodworkers-guild-chests.html


              Somewhere I found a 14th century woodcut from Spain showing a bookbinder using a double-screw press. But darned if I can find it now. Still, the use of screw-driven presses appears to arrive pretty late in Medieval Europe, and seems to have migrated from blacksmithing and bookbinding before coming to joinery.  Single-screw driven block printing presses were common in Western Europe by 1300, similar presses for fruits juice and oil extraction (olive, nuts, etc).

              There is an Anunciation Tryptic in the NY Met ( http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/470304 ) that has St Jerome in the right panel. He seems to have something that very much looks like a tiny shave pony on his worktable. Tryptic dated to 1427-1432, Netherlands

              Trying to find anything from Southern Italy to Constantinople is nearly impossible in English Language sources. I expect that screw-type vises may have been used in that region prior to the 14th century as we have several adjustable lecterns that articulate by threaded wood screws (11th Cen), but no extants or specific references for vises or other woodshop equipment using a screw.



              Vels

            • Vels inn Viggladi
              ... That s screw-clamp and the table is dated to 1600. -V
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013
                >The guild table produced by Hans Kipferle includes a screw-clap, and the workbench suggests
                >an end vise. (Marijn's blog) http://thomasguild.blogspot.com/2013/04/woodworkers-guild-chests.html

                That's "screw-clamp" and the table is dated to 1600.

                -V
              • Hall, Hayward
                I m not seeing anything resembling a shave pony... Are you talking about the mousetrap? From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013

                  I’m not seeing anything resembling a shave pony...  Are you talking about the mousetrap?

                   

                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vels inn Viggladi
                  Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 12:05 PM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] vises

                   


                  There is an Anunciation Tryptic in the NY Met ( http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/470304 ) that has St Jerome in the right panel. He seems to have something that very much looks like a tiny shave pony on his worktable. Tryptic dated to 1427-1432, Netherlands


                • Vels inn Viggladi
                  ... I suppose I am. Well, toss that one. -V
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013
                    >I’m not seeing anything resembling a shave pony...  Are you talking about the mousetrap?


                    I suppose I am. Well, toss that one.


                    -V

                  • Hall, Hayward
                    Hah, fair enough. Still, the Merode mousetrap is definitely on my list of things to make. :) G From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013

                      Hah, fair enough.  Still, the Merode mousetrap is definitely on my list of things to make. J

                       

                      G

                       

                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vels inn Viggladi
                      Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 2:11 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] vises

                       




                      >I’m not seeing anything resembling a shave pony...  Are you talking about the mousetrap?


                      I suppose I am. Well, toss that one.


                      -V




                    • Gary 'Hal' Link
                      I built the trap 20+ years ago it works well for a live trap. The second part of the trap is the bucket of water you drown them in, never had the heart to make
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013
                        I built the trap 20+ years ago it works well for a live trap. The second part of the trap is the bucket of water you drown them in, never had the heart to make the bucket.

                        In Service
                        Hal

                        Sent from my iPad

                        On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:31 PM, "Hall, Hayward" <hallh@...> wrote:

                         

                        Hah, fair enough.  Still, the Merode mousetrap is definitely on my list of things to make. J

                         

                        G

                         

                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vels inn Viggladi
                        Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 2:11 PM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] vises

                         




                        >I’m not seeing anything resembling a shave pony...  Are you talking about the mousetrap?


                        I suppose I am. Well, toss that one.


                        -V




                      • Jerry Harder
                        Vels you absolutely rock! Here s my contribution: http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/BE055360/illus-of-iron-clock-shop-wworkers Look to the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 30, 2013
                          Vels you absolutely rock!
                          Here's my contribution:
                          http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/BE055360/illus-of-iron-clock-shop-wworkers
                          Look to the bench on the left. I have a better picture but I don't know
                          where I got it. I'll attach it to an email if anyone wants it.
                          The first address you give on your list doesn't work. but thanks for all
                          the rest.
                        • Vels inn Viggladi
                          Might need to be signed in to Yahoo Groups to see it... Otherwise, it s in the photo gallery under Vels Found Images. -V
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
                            Might need to be signed in to Yahoo Groups to see it... Otherwise, it's in the photo gallery under "Vels' Found Images.

                            -V

                            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: geraldgoodwine@...
                            > Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 00:11:41 -0500
                            > Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] vises
                            >
                            > Vels you absolutely rock!
                            > Here's my contribution:
                            > http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/BE055360/illus-of-iron-clock-shop-wworkers
                            > Look to the bench on the left. I have a better picture but I don't know
                            > where I got it. I'll attach it to an email if anyone wants it.
                            > The first address you give on your list doesn't work. but thanks for all
                            > the rest.
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
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                          • Hall, Hayward
                            Whats not shown in the picture is the small ‘mouse-a-pult’ to fling them into the neighbor’s yard. From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013

                              Whats not shown in the picture is the small ‘mouse-a-pult’ to fling them into the neighbor’s yard.

                               

                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary 'Hal' Link
                              Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 5:28 PM
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] vises

                               




                              I built the trap 20+ years ago it works well for a live trap. The second part of the trap is the bucket of water you drown them in, never had the heart to make the bucket.

                               

                              In Service

                              Hal

                              Sent from my iPad


                              On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:31 PM, "Hall, Hayward" <hallh@...> wrote:

                               

                              Hah, fair enough.  Still, the Merode mousetrap is definitely on my list of things to make. J

                               

                              G

                               

                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vels inn Viggladi
                              Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 2:11 PM
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] vises

                               





                              >I’m not seeing anything resembling a shave pony...  Are you talking about the mousetrap?


                              I suppose I am. Well, toss that one.


                              -V








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