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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Milk paint

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  • bsrlee
    Its even less informative than that - it seems that in US paint-speak latex means is that whatever binder is used is blended with a thining agent until it
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 12 12:31 AM
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      Its even less informative than that - it seems that in US 'paint-speak' latex means is that whatever binder is used is blended with a thining agent until it becomes a 'latex' suspension rather than being made from rubber, which is what the rest of the world thinks of when something is referred to as 'latex', rather like if it was instead described as 'homogenised' - milk also being considered a synonym for latex. See Google 'definition latex'.

      regards
      Brusi of Orkney



      On 12-Sep-13 12:56 PM, Vels inn Viggladi wrote:

      >From: rachel.e.stallings@...
      >
      >google search popped up www.milkpaint.com
      >www.marthastewart.com offered up this recipe to make your own.
      >And my local Lowe's store apparently sells it. http://www.lowes.com/pd_144501-86-A102MILKPAINT_0__
      >an 8 oz sample is $0.38. 
      >
      >--
      >I hope you have a great day!
      >Rachel

      And this is where the marketing can trip us up :
      Under the specifications tab for the product at Lowe's-
      Base TypeLatex
      Paint Color FamilyWhites
      Manufacturer Color/FinishMilk Paint

      That tells us that it is a latex binder that attempts to simulate the appearance of milk paint. It's not even bonded acrylic in a casein binder.


      Vels


    • hallieve
      Milk paint is easy and cheap to make that s why it was used so commonly. It s just pigment added to milk. thickened by using spoiled mike that has separated.
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 12 6:48 AM
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        Milk paint is easy and cheap to make that's why it was used so commonly. It's just pigment added to milk. thickened by using spoiled mike that has separated. or by letting in evaporate a few days. This did not smell good but makes a good paint. Today you can make it better and cheaper by using powdered milk and the tube pigments available at any paint store. If you want a shiny paint egg tempera is just as simple and that is definitely period. was used by the romans and was what was used before oil paint was developed. it is ground pigment added to egg yolk. It takes a lot longer to dry than milk.
          paint.
        Hope this helps,
        Hallie in south east fl.
      • Dusty Quinn Campbell
        The addition of lime (the mineral, not the fruit) to milk causes a chemical reaction with the calcium in the milk. This results in a fast drying, hard paint
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 12 6:59 AM
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          The addition of lime (the mineral, not the fruit) to milk causes a chemical reaction with the calcium in the milk.  This results in a fast drying, hard paint without a "spoilt milk" smell.  It is mildly caustic  while wet, so consider wearing gloves while mixing and painting with it.  I do not know if the milk + lime recipe is period, but lime certainly has been used for millennia for making mortar, fertilizing soil, and keeping flies/stench down in open latrines & graves.

          --Dunstan

          Sent from my iPad

          On Sep 12, 2013, at 6:48 AM, hallieve <hallieve@...> wrote:

           

          Milk paint is easy and cheap to make that's why it was used so commonly. It's just pigment added to milk. thickened by using spoiled mike that has separated. or by letting in evaporate a few days. This did not smell good but makes a good paint. Today you can make it better and cheaper by using powdered milk and the tube pigments available at any paint store. If you want a shiny paint egg tempera is just as simple and that is definitely period. was used by the romans and was what was used before oil paint was developed. it is ground pigment added to egg yolk. It takes a lot longer to dry than milk.
            paint.
          Hope this helps,
          Hallie in south east fl.



          ____________________________________________________________
        • Hall, Hayward
          I dated a girl with a penetrating temper once ... although I think she was a Sagittarius, not proteinaceous. Very nice writeup. Guillaume From:
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 12 9:29 AM
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            I dated a girl with a penetrating temper once … although I think she was a Sagittarius, not proteinaceous.

             

            Very nice writeup.

             

            Guillaume

             

            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vels inn Viggladi
            Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 10:45 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Milk paint

             




             

            >So is milk paint period?  Can anyone document a period milk paint recipe or artifact that uses it?


            Presumptively, yes. But it's tricky to prove definitively.

            I beg you'alls indulgence on this, milk paint is one of my rant inducing topics -

            Cennini dedicated a fair part of Il Libro del Arte to discussing different adhesives. Almost off-handedly he mentions the use of these sizes as binders for pigment. Paint is composed of three elements: pigment, binder or temper, and solvent. You have the color, the carrier for the color, and the solution that things the carrier so it can be applied to a surface.
            Binder and temper are words that can be used interchangeably. Two other words that are also used in the same context, interchangeably, are size and gluten. Size and gluten more typically refer to a binder that is an adhesive rather than one that is primarily a temper. Of which, Cennini discusses seven total recipies for "size." Five are made from animal skin or parts, one from thin cheese, and one from crushed amber. The wrench in all this is his discussion of varnish as a "gluten" made from crushed amber boiled in linseed oil as a hardening finish. Gluten is apparently the closest word in English that relates, and is actually a declension of the latin word for "glue." In looking at the original Italian, Cennini only gets specific when speaking about oil (binder and solvent) paints for painting canvas. Far more often he will interchange "temper" and "size" when discussing other paints.

            For a casein paint, the pigment is whatever kind of dirt one is using for color, milk proteins for a binder, and water for a solvent.

            Many consider Stephen Shepherd to be the head man in the field when discussing pre-modern glues and paints. His literature indicates that the method for deriving casein powder from milk does not predate the US Patent for doing such, which was submitted in 1847. While he once stated that milk paint was never used on furniture in the 19th century, he also claims that milk paint is a white-wash, and not a paint. Pigmented or not, he holds it is a white-wash... He moved the goal line to stay right. He eventually agreed that he didn't have significant information about the topic prior to the 18th century and allowed that there are other methods of attaining casein protein than the modern method which was patented in the 1840's. This limited his one-time certain statement that "milk paint was never used on furniture" to be revised to "milk paint does not appear to have been used on furniture in the 19th century."

            Rarely are the paints we find on extant furniture pieces tested for chemical make-up. Often, many of the extant pieces from the middle ages have been stripped of their original finish (paint) by Victorian era "conservators" who were attempting to protect the wood under the failing original finish by removing old finishes and replacing with oil and wax (in accordance with the style choices indicative of their era). There are a few pieces that do still have traces of their original paint, and have had the paint tested for chemical makeup. The "Duchess Agnes" chair is one of them and is typically my go to. The paint is identified as "proteinaceous." That is, the binder is some form of animal-derived protein. Forensic science has not been applied more thoroughly than that, however. We do know that 17th century pieces from New England have also been tested and confirmed to have protein-bound pigments. Those are believed to be hide-glue sizes. The double check, however, is that not all the pieces found with  proteinaceous paint have hygroscopic properties -- that is, they don't absorb water and become fluid again when wet and/or warmed.

            No one can say with certainty from the chemical tests, usually because the molecules are so deteriorated they cannot be identified beyond being a protein strand, and we have no written documents that provide a certain answer from within our period of study.  Collagen tempers (Hide, Hoof, Isenglass) are hygroscopic. Casein (Milk/Cheese) tempers are not. Egg temper is also non-hygroscopic. But that's where we get into how the paint adheres to the wood. Egg tempers have a tendency to float on the surface of wood, while Casein is a penetrative temper. So, now we're looking at how the paint has worn off...
            The Duchess Agnes appears to have had a penetrating temper, that is not hygroscopic, and is proteinaceous. It's a process of elimination argument.




            Vels






          • bsrlee
            I have just received my copy of the second printing of Before the Mast from Oxbow Books (David Brown in the US). It has been split into two volumes, one
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 14 10:38 PM
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              I have just received my copy of the second printing of 'Before the Mast'
              from Oxbow Books (David Brown in the US).

              It has been split into two volumes, one slightly larger than the other.
              No slip case, so it fits in with the earlier books but not quite in line
              with the more recent 2 volumes on weapons and the ship's structure - oh
              well.....

              regards
              Brusi of Orkney
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