Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: Re: [MedievalSawdust] RE: nails

Expand Messages
  • n7bsn
    Be aware that the iron refining process described violates the air-quality standards of most metro areas of the US and Canada. Ralg AnTir --- In
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 6 7:57 PM
    • 0 Attachment

      Be aware that the iron refining process described violates the air-quality standards of most metro areas of the US and Canada. 


      Ralg

      AnTir



      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      We did it a couple of times using black iron sand, layered in with the charcoal, with a blower.  As it burns down keep adding more charcoal and sand alternating.  If done right you end up with a couple pounds of raw iron full of slag and silica resting in the bottom of a pool of liquid silica.  You then have to work the hell out of that iron to beat out all the slag...

      Cheers,
      Brandubh


      On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:39 AM, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
       

      Smelting iron is really one of the things I want to do.  The hold up is finding anyone that will sell ore.  Where did you get yours?


      On 9/3/2013 2:35 PM, duke_henrik@... wrote:
       

      Using store bought nails and reworking them to look more in period, can often be done cold and the nail shank diameter can be selected from a vaierty of nail sizes. That eliminates the need for heat and rod stock of a particular size, being kept on hand . However once I ake some nail headers, I will be aboe to make nails from scratch and out of any metal stock. I have some bloom iron made from ore I helped smelt in a viking style smelting forge last year, which should make excellent nails.


      Henrik



      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:

      If your going to do all that why not make them from scratch?

      On 9/2/2013 2:37 PM, duke_henrik@... wrote:
       

      I do the same, but I also cut the shank to length and forge it to a square crossosection with a taper sao it looks authentic, especially if I clench the end protruding from the wood on the wrongside of the work. 


      I was just in my local Sears store's tool department and found three tapered steel "alignment punch tools. They have a very narrow taper, only a few degrees beyond a straight cylinder, with the smallest being 5/32 inches in diameter and the largest going to over 1/2 inch diameter and costing less than $9. I bought the smallest and largest and will use them to make nail headers. Where I take a piece of thick steel drill a pilot hole, heat it red hot,then taper the hole with the alignment punch and quench the steel.


      Use it by forging a taper to the rod stock to be used for making nails. Insert the tapered end into the nail header. Cut off the excess a diameter or more distance above the tool. Pien the protruding metal down to form the head. Invert the nail header and knock out the newly formed nail from the tapered hole.


      For jewelry sized projects needing tapered nails, use a small tapered drill such as those made for pilot hole drilling for wood screws to make the nail header's tapered hole, or else use a jewelers rat tailed file to do the same.


      The cut flooring nails I've used are hardened and the points don't bend without breaking off..

      for some applications they work fine, but not for clenching or piening. For those sort of applications, such as installing sea chest hardware or shield enarms I use Jerry's method of converting modern nails into fasteners to do the job with the addition of forging the shank too, if it is exposed - even inside or underneath and out of casual sight.

      .

      Henrik 



      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      I just make my own on my Mastermyr nail jig but you can try this:
      Drill a whole in a small piece of metal 1/2 in thick or more that fits a regular nail of your choice of size.
      Put the nail in and beat on the head with a ball peen hammer until it looks appropriately medieval.  You may need to drill a hole in a block of wood to support it if the nail is longer that the thickness of the metal.  The heads will look right and the rest of the nail (in most cases) will be buried in the wood.

      Someone mentioned that they used copper.  I too have used copper because it is easy to work with AND it looks really decorative but has anyone seen this on anything other than all metal work jewelery type stuff.



    • henrikofhavn
      Really? In what way? The two smelts I participated in were rather free from very much visible smoke. They both occurred in the greater San Francisco Bay area (
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 7 10:46 AM
      • 0 Attachment

        Really? In what way? 


        The two smelts I participated in were rather free from very much visible smoke. They both occurred in the greater San Francisco Bay area ( one in Oakland, in Alameda County, and the other in Petaluma, In Sonoma County) within the jurisdiction of the Bay Area Air Quality Management District (  http://www.baaqmd.gov/Divisions/Planning-and-Research/Rules-and-Regulations.aspx  ), one of the most regulated Metro areas in the United States. 


        According to their rules and regulations ( http://www.baaqmd.gov/~/media/Files/Planning%20and%20Research/Rules%20and%20Regs/reg%2012/rg1213.ashx?la=en ), section "103.2 Small Facilities Exemptions",: "Foundries or forges that melt or heat treat  2,500 tons or less of metal per rolling twelve-month period." 


        Not only is very little pollution occurring when burning charcoal  made from hardwoods,using an air blast furnace, beyond the production of mainly carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and water vapor, but the iron ore's own volatile constituents may be minimal, as in the case of smelting magnetite ore which is simply iron oxide, composed of plain iron and oxygen, which can only contribute to the formation of oxygen gas, carbon monoxide gas, carbon dioxide gas or water vapor, all normally present in the atmosphere. Only carbon monoxide is considered significantly toxic, as an oxygen uptake inhibitor in living animals, and that toxicity should be mitigated by smelting in a well ventilated environment.. The regulations don't prohibit the small volume of smelting we did since we produced only some 20 to 40 pounds of iron ( which is way less than the permitted 2500  tons of iron, per year.


        Again, I ask where is the violation claimed?


        Henrik



        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        Be aware that the iron refining process described violates the air-quality standards of most metro areas of the US and Canada. 


        Ralg

        AnTir



        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        We did it a couple of times using black iron sand, layered in with the charcoal, with a blower.  As it burns down keep adding more charcoal and sand alternating.  If done right you end up with a couple pounds of raw iron full of slag and silica resting in the bottom of a pool of liquid silica.  You then have to work the hell out of that iron to beat out all the slag...

        Cheers,
        Brandubh


        On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:39 AM, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
         

        Smelting iron is really one of the things I want to do.  The hold up is finding anyone that will sell ore.  Where did you get yours?


        On 9/3/2013 2:35 PM, duke_henrik@... wrote:
         

        Using store bought nails and reworking them to look more in period, can often be done cold and the nail shank diameter can be selected from a vaierty of nail sizes. That eliminates the need for heat and rod stock of a particular size, being kept on hand . However once I ake some nail headers, I will be aboe to make nails from scratch and out of any metal stock. I have some bloom iron made from ore I helped smelt in a viking style smelting forge last year, which should make excellent nails.


        Henrik



        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:

        If your going to do all that why not make them from scratch?

        On 9/2/2013 2:37 PM, duke_henrik@... wrote:
         

        I do the same, but I also cut the shank to length and forge it to a square crossosection with a taper sao it looks authentic, especially if I clench the end protruding from the wood on the wrongside of the work. 


        I was just in my local Sears store's tool department and found three tapered steel "alignment punch tools. They have a very narrow taper, only a few degrees beyond a straight cylinder, with the smallest being 5/32 inches in diameter and the largest going to over 1/2 inch diameter and costing less than $9. I bought the smallest and largest and will use them to make nail headers. Where I take a piece of thick steel drill a pilot hole, heat it red hot,then taper the hole with the alignment punch and quench the steel.


        Use it by forging a taper to the rod stock to be used for making nails. Insert the tapered end into the nail header. Cut off the excess a diameter or more distance above the tool. Pien the protruding metal down to form the head. Invert the nail header and knock out the newly formed nail from the tapered hole.


        For jewelry sized projects needing tapered nails, use a small tapered drill such as those made for pilot hole drilling for wood screws to make the nail header's tapered hole, or else use a jewelers rat tailed file to do the same.


        The cut flooring nails I've used are hardened and the points don't bend without breaking off..

        for some applications they work fine, but not for clenching or piening. For those sort of applications, such as installing sea chest hardware or shield enarms I use Jerry's method of converting modern nails into fasteners to do the job with the addition of forging the shank too, if it is exposed - even inside or underneath and out of casual sight.

        .

        Henrik 



        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        I just make my own on my Mastermyr nail jig but you can try this:
        Drill a whole in a small piece of metal 1/2 in thick or more that fits a regular nail of your choice of size.
        Put the nail in and beat on the head with a ball peen hammer until it looks appropriately medieval.  You may need to drill a hole in a block of wood to support it if the nail is longer that the thickness of the metal.  The heads will look right and the rest of the nail (in most cases) will be buried in the wood.

        Someone mentioned that they used copper.  I too have used copper because it is easy to work with AND it looks really decorative but has anyone seen this on anything other than all metal work jewelery type stuff.



      • Jerry Harder
        Most of the reading I have done says the ratio by weight is what controls the carbon content of the smelted metal. So there must be more than one way to
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 9 12:22 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Most of the reading I have done says the ratio by weight is what controls the carbon content of the smelted metal.   So there must be more than one way to control that.  What were the visual clues that there was too much carbon?  Too runny a metal coming down?  How can I get connected up with the people doing this?  I live in the mid-west.  Is there anyway one of these folks could ship me some  ore or Iron sand and some estimates of the iron content  so I can begin with the right mix?

          On 9/4/2013 11:48 AM, duke_henrik@... wrote:
           

          The smelt was done at the 2012  Californis Blacksmith Association Spring Conference . The lead demonstrater was  Lee Sauder from Lexington, VA. He brought ore from his property there. The bloom I have  is about 6 pounds and represents about 25% of the final product of 6 hours smelting. Not much slag in it. Previously I helped with a similar smelt at James Austins shop in Oakland calfornia in 2011. There we used iron sand collected from the beach in San Francisco.Use a big magnet inside a bucket to attract the magnetite sand to the outside. Hold it over a collecting container, lift the magnet out and the sand falls into the lower container. That time we used 40 pounds of sand and lots of charcoal, adding about equal weights of charcoal to sand per charge into a full stack of hot burning charcoal, than adding more charges as it burns down. At the conference, Lee said you can regulate the carbon absorption by how tall the stack is. he built a 38 inch tall stack and midway thru the smelt said too much carbon ws beiing absorbed into the bloom, so he reduced how full he filled the sharges by about 4 to 6 inches below the top of the stack.


          Henrik



          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <donnghaile@...> wrote:

          We did it a couple of times using black iron sand, layered in with the charcoal, with a blower.  As it burns down keep adding more charcoal and sand alternating.  If done right you end up with a couple pounds of raw iron full of slag and silica resting in the bottom of a pool of liquid silica.  You then have to work the hell out of that iron to beat out all the slag...

          Cheers,
          Brandubh


          On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:39 AM, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
           

          Smelting iron is really one of the things I want to do.  The hold up is finding anyone that will sell ore.  Where did you get yours?


          On 9/3/2013 2:35 PM, duke_henrik@... wrote:
           

          Using store bought nails and reworking them to look more in period, can often be done cold and the nail shank diameter can be selected from a vaierty of nail sizes. That eliminates the need for heat and rod stock of a particular size, being kept on hand . However once I ake some nail headers, I will be aboe to make nails from scratch and out of any metal stock. I have some bloom iron made from ore I helped smelt in a viking style smelting forge last year, which should make excellent nails.


          Henrik



          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:

          If your going to do all that why not make them from scratch?

          On 9/2/2013 2:37 PM, duke_henrik@... wrote:
           

          I do the same, but I also cut the shank to length and forge it to a square crossosection with a taper sao it looks authentic, especially if I clench the end protruding from the wood on the wrongside of the work. 


          I was just in my local Sears store's tool department and found three tapered steel "alignment punch tools. They have a very narrow taper, only a few degrees beyond a straight cylinder, with the smallest being 5/32 inches in diameter and the largest going to over 1/2 inch diameter and costing less than $9. I bought the smallest and largest and will use them to make nail headers. Where I take a piece of thick steel drill a pilot hole, heat it red hot,then taper the hole with the alignment punch and quench the steel.


          Use it by forging a taper to the rod stock to be used for making nails. Insert the tapered end into the nail header. Cut off the excess a diameter or more distance above the tool. Pien the protruding metal down to form the head. Invert the nail header and knock out the newly formed nail from the tapered hole.


          For jewelry sized projects needing tapered nails, use a small tapered drill such as those made for pilot hole drilling for wood screws to make the nail header's tapered hole, or else use a jewelers rat tailed file to do the same.


          The cut flooring nails I've used are hardened and the points don't bend without breaking off..

          for some applications they work fine, but not for clenching or piening. For those sort of applications, such as installing sea chest hardware or shield enarms I use Jerry's method of converting modern nails into fasteners to do the job with the addition of forging the shank too, if it is exposed - even inside or underneath and out of casual sight.

          .

          Henrik 



          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          I just make my own on my Mastermyr nail jig but you can try this:
          Drill a whole in a small piece of metal 1/2 in thick or more that fits a regular nail of your choice of size.
          Put the nail in and beat on the head with a ball peen hammer until it looks appropriately medieval.  You may need to drill a hole in a block of wood to support it if the nail is longer that the thickness of the metal.  The heads will look right and the rest of the nail (in most cases) will be buried in the wood.

          Someone mentioned that they used copper.  I too have used copper because it is easy to work with AND it looks really decorative but has anyone seen this on anything other than all metal work jewelery type stuff.




        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.