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Re: box locks

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  • gloerke
    Damn, I made a mistake. It is freilichtmuseum cloppenburg, http://www.museumsdorf.de/ sorry, marijn
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 23, 2013
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      Damn, I made a mistake. It is freilichtmuseum cloppenburg, http://www.museumsdorf.de/

      sorry, marijn

      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
      >
      > I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left.
      > In May this year there were still several available in the Oldenburger Freilichtmuseum in Germany (visiting on my way to the luneburger moor convents).
      > Otherwise try abebooks.com (or abebooks.de)
      >
      > good luck, marijn
      >
      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thank you for the ISBN#.
      > >
      > > Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.
      > >
      > > All came back as out of print no copies...
      > >
      > > Any where else I should try?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thomas
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      > > From: gloerke@
      > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
      > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Exactly, that is the book!
      > >
      > > I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.
      > >
      > > Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.
      > >
      > > Marijn
      > >
      > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
      > > > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
      > > > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
      > > > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
      > > > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
      > > >
      > > > *Laura*
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > **
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > **
      > > > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
      > > > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
      > > > >
      > > > > Lagerstein
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@>
      > > > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
      > > > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Jerry,
      > > > >
      > > > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
      > > > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
      > > > > the file
      > > > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
      > > > >
      > > > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
      > > > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
      > > > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
      > > > > on each one.
      > > > >
      > > > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi Jerry,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
      > > > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
      > > > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
      > > > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
      > > > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
      > > > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
      > > > > the original locks.
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
      > > > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
      > > > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
      > > > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
      > > > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
      > > > Pearsall Smith
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Julian Wilson
      Gentles all,  I ve come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
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        Gentles all,
         I've come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan Castle in S. Wales.

        I'm a Master Carpenter & Joiner.
        I've occasionally made replica-medieval chests and coffers for Re-enactors as a pleasant and challenging change from my usual commercial housing-fit-out work.
        I've eventually been able to find Manufacturers who produce replica-mediveal strapwork, hinges, and handles for such chests. [I've even found a UK source for rosehead cut nails to use in fixing such ironwork].
        But so far I've been unable to find any manufacturing locksmith  who offers replica-appearance* chest and coffer box-locks and padlocks. [*By this I mean that the exposed exteriors - hasps, staples, and padlocks; - hasps and/or only faceplates,  -  of such locks should look vaguely medieval, but the "works" can be modern.]
         So if anyone can send me contact details for such a niche-market  Manufacturing Locksmith - or even their Retail Sales Agents, I'll be very grateful.
         Matthewe

      • D. Young
        Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
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          Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

          So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

          Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

          food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment



          Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

               Custom Commissions Welcome....!

          www.partsandtechnical.com
          (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
           



          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          From: lhjw66576@...
          Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:21:09 +0100
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

           

          Gentles all,
           I've come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan Castle in S. Wales.

          I'm a Master Carpenter & Joiner.
          I've occasionally made replica-medieval chests and coffers for Re-enactors as a pleasant and challenging change from my usual commercial housing-fit-out work.
          I've eventually been able to find Manufacturers who produce replica-mediveal strapwork, hinges, and handles for such chests. [I've even found a UK source for rosehead cut nails to use in fixing such ironwork].
          But so far I've been unable to find any manufacturing locksmith  who offers replica-appearance* chest and coffer box-locks and padlocks. [*By this I mean that the exposed exteriors - hasps, staples, and padlocks; - hasps and/or only faceplates,  -  of such locks should look vaguely medieval, but the "works" can be modern.]
           So if anyone can send me contact details for such a niche-market  Manufacturing Locksmith - or even their Retail Sales Agents, I'll be very grateful.
           Matthewe


        • Julian Wilson
          Thank you, Mr. Young. Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the 3-Foot Rule but haven t demanded absolute
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
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            Thank you, Mr. Young.
            Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
            I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
            But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
            I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
            Matthewe



            From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
            To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

             
            Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

            So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

            Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

            food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

          • bsrlee
            The closest thing I have seen on-line lately are the restorer s padlocks being sold by Van Dyke s in the US. http://www.vandykes.com/ They have some heart
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 25, 2013
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              The closest thing I have seen on-line lately are the "restorer's" padlocks being sold by Van Dyke's in the US.
              http://www.vandykes.com/

              They have some 'heart shaped' keyed padlocks which are arguably 1600's or so - similar to the triangular locks found in some of the Dutch wrecks on the Western Australian coast.

              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=204934&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5

              and 'screw' key padlocks
              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=207390&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5

              Also some fairly chunky padlock hasps as well as the 'usual' fake Spanish/Mexican sheet metal hasps.
              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=203535&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5
              http://www.vandykes.com/spear-point-black-iron-hasp/p/204981/

              I think Vandykes buy a lot of their hardware by the pallet as they have 'new' items all the time, but when they sell out of something interesting it just disppears, never to return.

              I have seen the odd small 'Viking' padlock turn up with merchants at SCA events which seem to be coming from Eastern Europe, and there is a fellow in New Zealand who is making very nice large & fancy Viking/Anglo-Saxon padlocks but they run $80-$100 IIRC.

              regards
              Brusi of Orkney


              On 25-Aug-13 3:59 AM, Julian Wilson wrote:
              Thank you, Mr. Young.
              Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
              I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
              But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
              I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
              Matthewe

            • D. Young
              I hear ya Matthewe Hence the reason Im edging closer to making some. Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom Commissions Welcome....!
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 26, 2013
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                I hear ya Matthewe

                Hence the reason Im edging closer to making some.





                Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                     Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                www.partsandtechnical.com
                (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                 



                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                From: lhjw66576@...
                Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                 

                Thank you, Mr. Young.
                Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                Matthewe



                From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                 
                Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment


              • Hall, Hayward
                The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 26, 2013
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                  The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved is generally cost prohibitive.  I’ll probably never sell a 13thc barrel lock because it takes an incredible about of tedious casting, filing and fitting of small parts if you want to do it right ($$$) and if something goes wrong or gets jammed in use either through user-error or mechanical failure (lets face it, I/we don’t make these for a living), then I have a disgruntled customer (although I’ve never had a problem with mine yet).  If someone produces stuff like this commercially, then they’re not generally going to look properly medieval, and its painful to see commercial hardware on a nice handmade period piece.  All that to say you’re better off learning to make ur own, or coming to a trade agreement.

                   

                  Gratuitous showing off:

                  http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock.jpg

                  http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock2.jpg

                   

                  I would teach a class on making these but the odds of someone(s) showing up with enough skills to complete it without 2 hours of 1-on-1 contact are fairly slim.  I’m happy if 1 in 10 actually know how to use a file (no offense to my wonderful students).  I wish sometimes I could do more than entry-level classes, which is another discussion altogether.

                   

                   

                  Guillaume

                   


                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  From: lhjw66576@...
                  Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                   

                   

                  Thank you, Mr. Young.
                  Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                  I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                  But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                  I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                  Matthewe

                   

                   


                  From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                  To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                   

                   

                  Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                  So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                  Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                  food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                   

                   




                • Thylacine
                  very nice. ... very nice. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Hall, Hayward wrote: á The problem with either locks or any period mechanism
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 27, 2013
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                    very nice.


                    On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Hall, Hayward <hallh@...> wrote:
                     

                    The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved is generally cost prohibitive.  I’ll probably never sell a 13thc barrel lock because it takes an incredible about of tedious casting, filing and fitting of small parts if you want to do it right ($$$) and if something goes wrong or gets jammed in use either through user-error or mechanical failure (lets face it, I/we don’t make these for a living), then I have a disgruntled customer (although I’ve never had a problem with mine yet).  If someone produces stuff like this commercially, then they’re not generally going to look properly medieval, and its painful to see commercial hardware on a nice handmade period piece.  All that to say you’re better off learning to make ur own, or coming to a trade agreement.

                     

                    Gratuitous showing off:

                    http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock.jpg

                    http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock2.jpg

                     

                    I would teach a class on making these but the odds of someone(s) showing up with enough skills to complete it without 2 hours of 1-on-1 contact are fairly slim.  I’m happy if 1 in 10 actually know how to use a file (no offense to my wonderful students).  I wish sometimes I could do more than entry-level classes, which is another discussion altogether.

                     

                     

                    Guillaume

                     


                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    From: lhjw66576@...
                    Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                     

                     

                    Thank you, Mr. Young.
                    Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                    I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                    But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                    I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                    Matthewe

                     

                     


                    From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                    To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                    Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                     

                     

                    Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                    So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                    Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                    food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                     

                     





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