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Re: I spoke too soon Re: [MedievalSawdust] box locks

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  • Broom
    ... Possibly, but don t be quick to assign reasons to things. There may have been other factors at play. Perhaps the door locksmiths came from different
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 21, 2013
      > Diversity of basic lock designs seems to have been greater back then,
      >
      simply because the coarser tolerances gave locksmiths fewer unique keys
      >
      than we can have today. So in order to have unique keys for their
      >
      customers, they utilized many different principles. You see this with
      >
      Viking and medieval Scandinavia, where they used primitive tumbler locks
      >
      (mostly made of wood) on house doors, sliding-key padlocks (much like ones
      >
      still made in China and India today), and those cool chest locks where you
      >
      stick a key in the middle, turn it ninety degrees to release the
      >
      locksprings, and then it becomes an operating handle that you slide
      >
      sideways to release two hasps, one on either side of the keyhole.

      Possibly, but don't be quick to assign reasons to things. There may have been other factors at play. Perhaps the door locksmiths came from different backgrounds - by the late Middle Ages, river boats were constructed entirely differently from seagoing vessels, and two separate guilds addressed these industries.

      Or perhaps some other reason we haven't thought of. :)

      ' |   Broom        IAmBroom @ gmail . com
      ' |   cellphone:             412-389-1997
      ' |   923 Haslage Ave, Pittsburgh, PA 15212
      '\|/  "Discere et docere", which means:
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      //|\\ 'S'."
    • Thylacine
      I found a copy of it at Amazon.de (Germany) but it couldn t ship to my address for whatever reason, perhaps you may have better luck. ... I found a copy of it
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 21, 2013
        I found a copy of it at Amazon.de (Germany) but it couldn't ship to my address for whatever reason, perhaps you may have better luck.


        On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
         

        Thank you for the ISBN#.
        Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. 
        All came back as out of print no copies...
        Any where else I should try?
         
        Thomas
         
        Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000

        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

         
        Exactly, that is the book!

        I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.

        Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.

        Marijn

        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@...> wrote:
        >
        > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
        >
        >
        > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
        > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
        > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
        > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
        > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
        >
        > *Laura*
        >
        >
        >
        > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > **
        > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
        > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
        > >
        > > Lagerstein
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@...>
        > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
        > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Jerry,
        > >
        > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
        > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
        > > the file
        > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
        > >
        > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
        > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
        > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
        > > on each one.
        > >
        > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
        > >
        > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi Jerry,
        > > >
        > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
        > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
        > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
        > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
        > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
        > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
        > > the original locks.
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
        > > >
        > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
        > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
        > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
        > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
        > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
        > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
        > Pearsall Smith
        >



      • gloerke
        I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left. In May this year
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 23, 2013
          I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left.
          In May this year there were still several available in the Oldenburger Freilichtmuseum in Germany (visiting on my way to the luneburger moor convents).
          Otherwise try abebooks.com (or abebooks.de)

          good luck, marijn

          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thank you for the ISBN#.
          >
          > Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.
          >
          > All came back as out of print no copies...
          >
          > Any where else I should try?
          >
          >
          >
          > Thomas
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          > From: gloerke@...
          > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
          > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Exactly, that is the book!
          >
          > I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.
          >
          > Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.
          >
          > Marijn
          >
          > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
          > >
          > >
          > > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
          > > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
          > > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
          > > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
          > > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
          > >
          > > *Laura*
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > **
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > **
          > > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
          > > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
          > > >
          > > > Lagerstein
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@>
          > > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          > > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
          > > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Hi Jerry,
          > > >
          > > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
          > > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
          > > > the file
          > > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
          > > >
          > > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
          > > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
          > > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
          > > > on each one.
          > > >
          > > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
          > > >
          > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi Jerry,
          > > > >
          > > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
          > > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
          > > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
          > > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
          > > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
          > > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
          > > > the original locks.
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
          > > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
          > > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
          > > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
          > > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
          > > Pearsall Smith
          > >
          >
        • gloerke
          Damn, I made a mistake. It is freilichtmuseum cloppenburg, http://www.museumsdorf.de/ sorry, marijn
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 23, 2013
            Damn, I made a mistake. It is freilichtmuseum cloppenburg, http://www.museumsdorf.de/

            sorry, marijn

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
            >
            > I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left.
            > In May this year there were still several available in the Oldenburger Freilichtmuseum in Germany (visiting on my way to the luneburger moor convents).
            > Otherwise try abebooks.com (or abebooks.de)
            >
            > good luck, marijn
            >
            > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thank you for the ISBN#.
            > >
            > > Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.
            > >
            > > All came back as out of print no copies...
            > >
            > > Any where else I should try?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Thomas
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > > From: gloerke@
            > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
            > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Exactly, that is the book!
            > >
            > > I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.
            > >
            > > Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.
            > >
            > > Marijn
            > >
            > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
            > > > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
            > > > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
            > > > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
            > > > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
            > > >
            > > > *Laura*
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > **
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > **
            > > > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
            > > > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
            > > > >
            > > > > Lagerstein
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@>
            > > > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
            > > > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi Jerry,
            > > > >
            > > > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
            > > > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
            > > > > the file
            > > > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
            > > > >
            > > > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
            > > > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
            > > > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
            > > > > on each one.
            > > > >
            > > > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi Jerry,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
            > > > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
            > > > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
            > > > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
            > > > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
            > > > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
            > > > > the original locks.
            > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
            > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
            > > > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
            > > > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
            > > > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
            > > > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
            > > > Pearsall Smith
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Julian Wilson
            Gentles all,  I ve come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
              Gentles all,
               I've come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan Castle in S. Wales.

              I'm a Master Carpenter & Joiner.
              I've occasionally made replica-medieval chests and coffers for Re-enactors as a pleasant and challenging change from my usual commercial housing-fit-out work.
              I've eventually been able to find Manufacturers who produce replica-mediveal strapwork, hinges, and handles for such chests. [I've even found a UK source for rosehead cut nails to use in fixing such ironwork].
              But so far I've been unable to find any manufacturing locksmith  who offers replica-appearance* chest and coffer box-locks and padlocks. [*By this I mean that the exposed exteriors - hasps, staples, and padlocks; - hasps and/or only faceplates,  -  of such locks should look vaguely medieval, but the "works" can be modern.]
               So if anyone can send me contact details for such a niche-market  Manufacturing Locksmith - or even their Retail Sales Agents, I'll be very grateful.
               Matthewe

            • D. Young
              Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
                Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment



                Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                     Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                www.partsandtechnical.com
                (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                 



                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                From: lhjw66576@...
                Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:21:09 +0100
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                 

                Gentles all,
                 I've come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan Castle in S. Wales.

                I'm a Master Carpenter & Joiner.
                I've occasionally made replica-medieval chests and coffers for Re-enactors as a pleasant and challenging change from my usual commercial housing-fit-out work.
                I've eventually been able to find Manufacturers who produce replica-mediveal strapwork, hinges, and handles for such chests. [I've even found a UK source for rosehead cut nails to use in fixing such ironwork].
                But so far I've been unable to find any manufacturing locksmith  who offers replica-appearance* chest and coffer box-locks and padlocks. [*By this I mean that the exposed exteriors - hasps, staples, and padlocks; - hasps and/or only faceplates,  -  of such locks should look vaguely medieval, but the "works" can be modern.]
                 So if anyone can send me contact details for such a niche-market  Manufacturing Locksmith - or even their Retail Sales Agents, I'll be very grateful.
                 Matthewe


              • Julian Wilson
                Thank you, Mr. Young. Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the 3-Foot Rule but haven t demanded absolute
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
                  Thank you, Mr. Young.
                  Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                  I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                  But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                  I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                  Matthewe



                  From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                  To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                   
                  Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                  So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                  Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                  food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                • bsrlee
                  The closest thing I have seen on-line lately are the restorer s padlocks being sold by Van Dyke s in the US. http://www.vandykes.com/ They have some heart
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 25, 2013
                    The closest thing I have seen on-line lately are the "restorer's" padlocks being sold by Van Dyke's in the US.
                    http://www.vandykes.com/

                    They have some 'heart shaped' keyed padlocks which are arguably 1600's or so - similar to the triangular locks found in some of the Dutch wrecks on the Western Australian coast.

                    http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=204934&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5

                    and 'screw' key padlocks
                    http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=207390&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5

                    Also some fairly chunky padlock hasps as well as the 'usual' fake Spanish/Mexican sheet metal hasps.
                    http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=203535&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5
                    http://www.vandykes.com/spear-point-black-iron-hasp/p/204981/

                    I think Vandykes buy a lot of their hardware by the pallet as they have 'new' items all the time, but when they sell out of something interesting it just disppears, never to return.

                    I have seen the odd small 'Viking' padlock turn up with merchants at SCA events which seem to be coming from Eastern Europe, and there is a fellow in New Zealand who is making very nice large & fancy Viking/Anglo-Saxon padlocks but they run $80-$100 IIRC.

                    regards
                    Brusi of Orkney


                    On 25-Aug-13 3:59 AM, Julian Wilson wrote:
                    Thank you, Mr. Young.
                    Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                    I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                    But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                    I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                    Matthewe

                  • D. Young
                    I hear ya Matthewe Hence the reason Im edging closer to making some. Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom Commissions Welcome....!
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 26, 2013
                      I hear ya Matthewe

                      Hence the reason Im edging closer to making some.





                      Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                           Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                      www.partsandtechnical.com
                      (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                       



                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      From: lhjw66576@...
                      Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                       

                      Thank you, Mr. Young.
                      Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                      I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                      But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                      I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                      Matthewe



                      From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                      To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                       
                      Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                      So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                      Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                      food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment


                    • Hall, Hayward
                      The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 26, 2013

                        The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved is generally cost prohibitive.  I’ll probably never sell a 13thc barrel lock because it takes an incredible about of tedious casting, filing and fitting of small parts if you want to do it right ($$$) and if something goes wrong or gets jammed in use either through user-error or mechanical failure (lets face it, I/we don’t make these for a living), then I have a disgruntled customer (although I’ve never had a problem with mine yet).  If someone produces stuff like this commercially, then they’re not generally going to look properly medieval, and its painful to see commercial hardware on a nice handmade period piece.  All that to say you’re better off learning to make ur own, or coming to a trade agreement.

                         

                        Gratuitous showing off:

                        http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock.jpg

                        http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock2.jpg

                         

                        I would teach a class on making these but the odds of someone(s) showing up with enough skills to complete it without 2 hours of 1-on-1 contact are fairly slim.  I’m happy if 1 in 10 actually know how to use a file (no offense to my wonderful students).  I wish sometimes I could do more than entry-level classes, which is another discussion altogether.

                         

                         

                        Guillaume

                         


                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        From: lhjw66576@...
                        Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                         

                         

                        Thank you, Mr. Young.
                        Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                        I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                        But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                        I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                        Matthewe

                         

                         


                        From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                        To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                         

                         

                        Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                        So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                        Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                        food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                         

                         




                      • Thylacine
                        very nice. ... very nice. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Hall, Hayward wrote: á The problem with either locks or any period mechanism
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 27, 2013
                          very nice.


                          On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Hall, Hayward <hallh@...> wrote:
                           

                          The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved is generally cost prohibitive.  I’ll probably never sell a 13thc barrel lock because it takes an incredible about of tedious casting, filing and fitting of small parts if you want to do it right ($$$) and if something goes wrong or gets jammed in use either through user-error or mechanical failure (lets face it, I/we don’t make these for a living), then I have a disgruntled customer (although I’ve never had a problem with mine yet).  If someone produces stuff like this commercially, then they’re not generally going to look properly medieval, and its painful to see commercial hardware on a nice handmade period piece.  All that to say you’re better off learning to make ur own, or coming to a trade agreement.

                           

                          Gratuitous showing off:

                          http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock.jpg

                          http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock2.jpg

                           

                          I would teach a class on making these but the odds of someone(s) showing up with enough skills to complete it without 2 hours of 1-on-1 contact are fairly slim.  I’m happy if 1 in 10 actually know how to use a file (no offense to my wonderful students).  I wish sometimes I could do more than entry-level classes, which is another discussion altogether.

                           

                           

                          Guillaume

                           


                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          From: lhjw66576@...
                          Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                           

                           

                          Thank you, Mr. Young.
                          Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                          I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                          But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                          I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                          Matthewe

                           

                           


                          From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                          To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                          Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                           

                           

                          Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                          So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                          Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                          food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                           

                           





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