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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Plane Class

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  • Peter Ellison
    I have taught plane making as a class twice. Not sure if it really was that effective since I don t know of anyone who has made planes from the class that I
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 20, 2013
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      I have taught plane making as a class twice.  Not sure if it really was that effective since I don't know of anyone who has made planes from the class that I taught.  If I'm smart enough I can post the powerpoint sides some place.

      I use the "Philly Method" that is a laminated assembly with a main center block and two thin pieces on the outside.  Means that you don't need to make the mortise for the blade to sit on, a saw does all of the work (I have always used a miterbox power saw because it is fast).  If you know what to look for you can see the construction method but I think that is a minor consideration.

      My jack plane is made that way, as is my joiner both work very well.

      I have one suggestion, "laminate" the plane blade. I take cheap hardware store buck brothers plane blades and glue a 1/8" piece of mild steel to thicken the blade.  That gives it more mass so when you hit the toe or heal of the plane the blade moves like it is supposed to.  I'd suggest starting out with the "block plane" blade, has a nice round top and is 1 5/8" wide.  My first one I used JB Weld, the most recent one I used 5 min epoxy on to "weld" them together both work one takes less patience to assemble.

      To help teach the class I made a "demo" plane out that uses screws and wing nuts instead of glue so that the class people could take apart the plane and see the internals.  I would suggest doing that, the whole thing was made out of pine for the stock and plywood for the laminate.

      There problem is that you need glue up time, because of the stresses on the glue joints it would really work better as a two part class day one build the body and glue up, then day two fit the wedge and true up the sole.  The wedge is the most complicated part from my perspective.


      Peter Petrovitch.



      On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Hall, Hayward <hallh@...> wrote:
       

      Sure, thanks for the feedback. We will be there all night so as you say, the interested ones can stick around. This is a prototype class at a smaller event so we'll see how it goes. I *really* want to do a plane making class but that's a little much for right now.

      Guillaume



      -----Original Message-----
      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K
      Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:55 AM
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Plane Class

      seems like a bit much to squeeze into a 1 hour class. but go for it! really interested persons will want to pick your brains for weeks after.
      K
      and you can always cut it into smaller classes for next time.

      ------------------------------------


    • Hall, Hayward
      I m sure the laminated ones work fine but I have no interest in them personally since they re not really medieval (I don t say that to discount your effort,
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 20, 2013
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        I’m sure the laminated ones work fine but I have no interest in them personally since they’re not really medieval (I don’t say that to discount your effort, it’s just not for me).  I would be doing hands-on-in-class using all period methods.  For my prototypes, I’m forging the blades and finishing them up with a jig on the disc grinder.  I made a little smoother with a pinned wedge in a little under 2 hours, and a fenced rebate in about an hour with an open-sided wedge (don’t know what you call it, but the side is open where the blade is – Mary Rose example and Moxon I think).  These were fairly easy to make and would go much faster with good initial layout and direction (where you’re not staring at it thinking “um, what next?”).  It would not be a novice class, but I see no reason a marginally competent woodworker wouldn’t be able to do it with some guidance. 

         

        I may have a trial run in a few weeks at For Hands in the evening with one or two in-crowd people to assess the feasibility.  The biggest issue will be having enough period bench space.

         

        Here is one of them, start to finish.  Again this is just a prototype made from a piece of oak 2x4 left over from timberframing that I kept tripping over in the yard.  The style comes from the Mary Rose planes, and the goal was to both match that look and use minimal tools.  Tools used were 3 saws, 3 chisels, 3 planes (including the smoother I made previously), an angle gauge, and a rasp. No attempt was made to remove tool marks.  Total time was about 1 hour.  Will do some test cuts after I harden and sharpen the blade.

         

        http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane1.jpg

        http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane2.jpg

        http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane3.jpg

        http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane4.jpg

        http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane5.jpg

        http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane6.jpg

         

         

        Guillaume

         

        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Ellison
        Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:19 PM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Plane Class

         




        I have taught plane making as a class twice.  Not sure if it really was that effective since I don't know of anyone who has made planes from the class that I taught.  If I'm smart enough I can post the powerpoint sides some place.

        I use the "Philly Method" that is a laminated assembly with a main center block and two thin pieces on the outside.  Means that you don't need to make the mortise for the blade to sit on, a saw does all of the work (I have always used a miterbox power saw because it is fast).  If you know what to look for you can see the construction method but I think that is a minor consideration.

        My jack plane is made that way, as is my joiner both work very well.

        I have one suggestion, "laminate" the plane blade. I take cheap hardware store buck brothers plane blades and glue a 1/8" piece of mild steel to thicken the blade.  That gives it more mass so when you hit the toe or heal of the plane the blade moves like it is supposed to.  I'd suggest starting out with the "block plane" blade, has a nice round top and is 1 5/8" wide.  My first one I used JB Weld, the most recent one I used 5 min epoxy on to "weld" them together both work one takes less patience to assemble.

        To help teach the class I made a "demo" plane out that uses screws and wing nuts instead of glue so that the class people could take apart the plane and see the internals.  I would suggest doing that, the whole thing was made out of pine for the stock and plywood for the laminate.

        There problem is that you need glue up time, because of the stresses on the glue joints it would really work better as a two part class day one build the body and glue up, then day two fit the wedge and true up the sole.  The wedge is the most complicated part from my perspective.


        Peter Petrovitch.

         

         

        On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Hall, Hayward <hallh@...> wrote:

         

        Sure, thanks for the feedback. We will be there all night so as you say, the interested ones can stick around. This is a prototype class at a smaller event so we'll see how it goes. I *really* want to do a plane making class but that's a little much for right now.

        Guillaume



        -----Original Message-----
        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K
        Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:55 AM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Plane Class

        seems like a bit much to squeeze into a 1 hour class. but go for it! really interested persons will want to pick your brains for weeks after.
        K
        and you can always cut it into smaller classes for next time.

        ------------------------------------

         




      • appelgarthe
        Great pane photos. I m glad to see your shop is as cluttered as mine. One of the problem I have in teaching complex classes like a plane making class at war is
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 21, 2013
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          Great pane photos. I'm glad to see your shop is as cluttered as mine.
          One of the problem I have in teaching complex classes like a plane making class at war is hauling a work shop for six or more to war. That's why I limit my classes to carving and the like. I usually set classes so they only require on small box of tools.
           
          By the way, two great places to learn tool making is John Wilson ( http://www.shakerovalbox.com/0 and Tillers International ( http://www.tillersinternational.org/). Both are located in Michigan, both worth a road trip.
           
          Nigel
          In a message dated 8/21/2013 12:43:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hallh@... writes:
           

          I’m sure the laminated ones work fine but I have no interest in them personally since they’re not really medieval (I don’t say that to discount your effort, it’s just not for me).  I would be doing hands-on-in-class using all period methods.  For my prototypes, I’m forging the blades and finishing them up with a jig on the disc grinder.  I made a little smoother with a pinned wedge in a little under 2 hours, and a fenced rebate in about an hour with an open-sided wedge (don’t know what you call it, but the side is open where the blade is – Mary Rose example and Moxon I think).  These were fairly easy to make and would go much faster with good initial layout and direction (where you’re not staring at it thinking “um, what next?”).  It would not be a novice class, but I see no reason a marginally competent woodworker wouldn’t be able to do it with some guidance. 

          I may have a trial run in a few weeks at For Hands in the evening with one or two in-crowd people to assess the feasibility.  The biggest issue will be having enough period bench space.

          Here is one of them, start to finish.  Again this is just a prototype made from a piece of oak 2x4 left over from timberframing that I kept tripping over in the yard.  The style comes from the Mary Rose planes, and the goal was to both match that look and use minimal tools.  Tools used were 3 saws, 3 chisels, 3 planes (including the smoother I made previously), an angle gauge, and a rasp. No attempt was made to remove tool marks.  Total time was about 1 hour.  Will do some test cuts after I harden and sharpen the blade.

          http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane1.jpg

          http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane2.jpg

          http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane3.jpg

          http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane4.jpg

          http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane5.jpg

          http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/woodworking/plane6.jpg

          Guillaume

          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Ellison
          Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:19 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Plane Class




          I have taught plane making as a class twice.  Not sure if it really was that effective since I don't know of anyone who has made planes from the class that I taught.  If I'm smart enough I can post the powerpoint sides some place.

          I use the "Philly Method" that is a laminated assembly with a main center block and two thin pieces on the outside.  Means that you don't need to make the mortise for the blade to sit on, a saw does all of the work (I have always used a miterbox power saw because it is fast).  If you know what to look for you can see the construction method but I think that is a minor consideration.

          My jack plane is made that way, as is my joiner both work very well.

          I have one suggestion, "laminate" the plane blade. I take cheap hardware store buck brothers plane blades and glue a 1/8" piece of mild steel to thicken the blade.  That gives it more mass so when you hit the toe or heal of the plane the blade moves like it is supposed to.  I'd suggest starting out with the "block plane" blade, has a nice round top and is 1 5/8" wide.  My first one I used JB Weld, the most recent one I used 5 min epoxy on to "weld" them together both work one takes less patience to assemble.

          To help teach the class I made a "demo" plane out that uses screws and wing nuts instead of glue so that the class people could take apart the plane and see the internals.  I would suggest doing that, the whole thing was made out of pine for the stock and plywood for the laminate.

          There problem is that you need glue up time, because of the stresses on the glue joints it would really work better as a two part class day one build the body and glue up, then day two fit the wedge and true up the sole.  The wedge is the most complicated part from my perspective.


          Peter Petrovitch.

          On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Hall, Hayward <hallh@...> wrote:

           

          Sure, thanks for the feedback. We will be there all night so as you say, the interested ones can stick around. This is a prototype class at a smaller event so we'll see how it goes. I *really* want to do a plane making class but that's a little much for right now.

          Guillaume



          -----Original Message-----
          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of K
          Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:55 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Plane Class

          seems like a bit much to squeeze into a 1 hour class. but go for it! really interested persons will want to pick your brains for weeks after.
          K
          and you can always cut it into smaller classes for next time.

          ------------------------------------




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