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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

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  • Laura Iseman
    Fron the blog I think the one meant is : - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion -
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 19, 2013
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      Fron the blog I think the one meant is :

      • von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany  ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] A more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.

      Laura




      On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
       

      I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail.  Can someone post more detailed info on it?  An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
       
      Lagerstein
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: gloerke
      Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

       

      Hi Jerry,

      Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get the file https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing

      By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400 medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details on each one.

      greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl

      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Jerry,
      >
      > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of the original locks.

      >
      > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
      >
      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
      > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
      > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
      > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
      > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
      > >
      >




      --
      "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan Pearsall Smith

    • Michael Scherrer
      The ISBN #, thank you........ To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com From: laurai@tpg.com.au Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:08:20 +1000 Subject: Re:
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 20, 2013
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        The ISBN #,   thank you........
         

        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        From: laurai@...
        Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:08:20 +1000
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

         
        Fron the blog I think the one meant is :

        • von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany  ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] A more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.

        Laura




        On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
         

        I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail.  Can someone post more detailed info on it?  An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
         
        Lagerstein
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: gloerke
        Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

         

        Hi Jerry,

        Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get the file https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing

        By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400 medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details on each one.

        greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl

        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Jerry,
        >
        > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of the original locks.

        >
        > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
        >
        > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
        > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
        > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
        > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
        > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
        > >
        >






        --
        "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan Pearsall Smith


      • gloerke
        Exactly, that is the book! I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 20, 2013
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          Exactly, that is the book!

          I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.

          Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.

          Marijn

          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@...> wrote:
          >
          > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
          >
          >
          > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
          > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
          > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
          > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
          > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
          >
          > *Laura*
          >
          >
          >
          > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > **
          > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
          > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
          > >
          > > Lagerstein
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@...>
          > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
          > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Jerry,
          > >
          > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
          > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
          > > the file
          > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
          > >
          > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
          > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
          > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
          > > on each one.
          > >
          > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
          > >
          > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Jerry,
          > > >
          > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
          > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
          > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
          > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
          > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
          > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
          > > the original locks.
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
          > > >
          > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
          > > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
          > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
          > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
          > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
          > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
          > Pearsall Smith
          >
        • conradh@...
          I ve found quite a few period descriptions, but they re from widely scattered sources, and they refer to equally scattered countries and periods! Diversity of
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 20, 2013
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            I've found quite a few period descriptions, but they're from widely
            scattered sources, and they refer to equally scattered countries and
            periods!

            Diversity of basic lock designs seems to have been greater back then,
            simply because the coarser tolerances gave locksmiths fewer unique keys
            than we can have today. So in order to have unique keys for their
            customers, they utilized many different principles. You see this with
            Viking and medieval Scandinavia, where they used primitive tumbler locks
            (mostly made of wood) on house doors, sliding-key padlocks (much like ones
            still made in China and India today), and those cool chest locks where you
            stick a key in the middle, turn it ninety degrees to release the
            locksprings, and then it becomes an operating handle that you slide
            sideways to release two hasps, one on either side of the keyhole.

            Tre Trykare's book on the Vikings has a three-part drawing showing this
            lock mechanism in operation. It's very clear, except that the layout
            people screwed up badly. The illo doesn't match the description at all,
            and we were massively confused until we realized the pics were inside out
            and upside down. As long as you keep in mind that you are standing on
            your head inside the box, it all makes perfect sense! I've made several
            copies of that lock, and am planning another for a big tool chest I'm
            building.

            The same book shows one of the sliding-key padlocks, which I've also copied.

            I have documentation on a Persian lock that uses a screw mechanism for a
            "ward"; you have to insert a threaded key and give it several turns before
            it engages the actual lock mechanism. Obviously, you can use different
            pitches of left or right hand thread for a variety of keys. The thread is
            square type, apparently made by bending a small square iron rod double,
            wrapping it hot around a mandrel to get a doubled helix, and then cutting
            the two apart. One helix is forge-brazed to a rod the size of the mandrel
            to make a key, the other is brazed into a tube or bored hole and becomes a
            spiral ward for the lock. (A heavier version of this was used to make
            metal threads for the first vises; it's about the only way I know to make
            heavy square threads without a metal lathe. The method was still used by
            blacksmiths in this country to rebuild worn-out vises in the 19th
            Century.)

            Let me know what period interests you, and I'll see if I can dig up some
            references that are relevant.
          • Michael Scherrer
            Thank you for the ISBN#. Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. All came back as out of print no copies... Any where else I should try? Thomas To:
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 21, 2013
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              Thank you for the ISBN#.
              Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. 
              All came back as out of print no copies...
              Any where else I should try?
               
              Thomas
               

              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              From: gloerke@...
              Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

               
              Exactly, that is the book!

              I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.

              Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.

              Marijn

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@...> wrote:
              >
              > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
              >
              >
              > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
              > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
              > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
              > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
              > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
              >
              > *Laura*
              >
              >
              >
              > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > **
              > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
              > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
              > >
              > > Lagerstein
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@...>
              > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
              > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Jerry,
              > >
              > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
              > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
              > > the file
              > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
              > >
              > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
              > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
              > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
              > > on each one.
              > >
              > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
              > >
              > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Jerry,
              > > >
              > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
              > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
              > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
              > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
              > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
              > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
              > > the original locks.
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
              > > >
              > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
              > > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
              > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
              > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
              > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
              > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
              > Pearsall Smith
              >


            • Broom
              ... Possibly, but don t be quick to assign reasons to things. There may have been other factors at play. Perhaps the door locksmiths came from different
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 21, 2013
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                > Diversity of basic lock designs seems to have been greater back then,
                >
                simply because the coarser tolerances gave locksmiths fewer unique keys
                >
                than we can have today. So in order to have unique keys for their
                >
                customers, they utilized many different principles. You see this with
                >
                Viking and medieval Scandinavia, where they used primitive tumbler locks
                >
                (mostly made of wood) on house doors, sliding-key padlocks (much like ones
                >
                still made in China and India today), and those cool chest locks where you
                >
                stick a key in the middle, turn it ninety degrees to release the
                >
                locksprings, and then it becomes an operating handle that you slide
                >
                sideways to release two hasps, one on either side of the keyhole.

                Possibly, but don't be quick to assign reasons to things. There may have been other factors at play. Perhaps the door locksmiths came from different backgrounds - by the late Middle Ages, river boats were constructed entirely differently from seagoing vessels, and two separate guilds addressed these industries.

                Or perhaps some other reason we haven't thought of. :)

                ' |   Broom        IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                ' |   cellphone:             412-389-1997
                ' |   923 Haslage Ave, Pittsburgh, PA 15212
                '\|/  "Discere et docere", which means:
                '/|\  "True Fact: President Harry S Truman's full middle name is
                //|\\ 'S'."
              • Thylacine
                I found a copy of it at Amazon.de (Germany) but it couldn t ship to my address for whatever reason, perhaps you may have better luck. ... I found a copy of it
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 21, 2013
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                  I found a copy of it at Amazon.de (Germany) but it couldn't ship to my address for whatever reason, perhaps you may have better luck.


                  On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                   

                  Thank you for the ISBN#.
                  Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. 
                  All came back as out of print no copies...
                  Any where else I should try?
                   
                  Thomas
                   
                  Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000

                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

                   
                  Exactly, that is the book!

                  I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.

                  Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.

                  Marijn

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
                  >
                  >
                  > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
                  > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
                  > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
                  > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
                  > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
                  >
                  > *Laura*
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > **
                  > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
                  > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                  > >
                  > > Lagerstein
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@...>
                  > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                  > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Jerry,
                  > >
                  > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
                  > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
                  > > the file
                  > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
                  > >
                  > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
                  > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
                  > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
                  > > on each one.
                  > >
                  > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
                  > >
                  > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi Jerry,
                  > > >
                  > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
                  > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
                  > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
                  > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
                  > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
                  > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
                  > > the original locks.
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                  > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                  > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                  > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                  > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
                  > Pearsall Smith
                  >



                • gloerke
                  I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left. In May this year
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 23, 2013
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                    I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left.
                    In May this year there were still several available in the Oldenburger Freilichtmuseum in Germany (visiting on my way to the luneburger moor convents).
                    Otherwise try abebooks.com (or abebooks.de)

                    good luck, marijn

                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thank you for the ISBN#.
                    >
                    > Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.
                    >
                    > All came back as out of print no copies...
                    >
                    > Any where else I should try?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thomas
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: gloerke@...
                    > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
                    > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Exactly, that is the book!
                    >
                    > I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.
                    >
                    > Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.
                    >
                    > Marijn
                    >
                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
                    > > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
                    > > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
                    > > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
                    > > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
                    > >
                    > > *Laura*
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > **
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > **
                    > > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
                    > > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                    > > >
                    > > > Lagerstein
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@>
                    > > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                    > > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Jerry,
                    > > >
                    > > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
                    > > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
                    > > > the file
                    > > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
                    > > >
                    > > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
                    > > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
                    > > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
                    > > > on each one.
                    > > >
                    > > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi Jerry,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
                    > > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
                    > > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
                    > > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
                    > > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
                    > > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
                    > > > the original locks.
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                    > > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                    > > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                    > > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                    > > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
                    > > Pearsall Smith
                    > >
                    >
                  • gloerke
                    Damn, I made a mistake. It is freilichtmuseum cloppenburg, http://www.museumsdorf.de/ sorry, marijn
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 23, 2013
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                      Damn, I made a mistake. It is freilichtmuseum cloppenburg, http://www.museumsdorf.de/

                      sorry, marijn

                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left.
                      > In May this year there were still several available in the Oldenburger Freilichtmuseum in Germany (visiting on my way to the luneburger moor convents).
                      > Otherwise try abebooks.com (or abebooks.de)
                      >
                      > good luck, marijn
                      >
                      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thank you for the ISBN#.
                      > >
                      > > Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.
                      > >
                      > > All came back as out of print no copies...
                      > >
                      > > Any where else I should try?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Thomas
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: gloerke@
                      > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
                      > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Exactly, that is the book!
                      > >
                      > > I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.
                      > >
                      > > Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.
                      > >
                      > > Marijn
                      > >
                      > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
                      > > > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
                      > > > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
                      > > > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
                      > > > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
                      > > >
                      > > > *Laura*
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > **
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > **
                      > > > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
                      > > > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Lagerstein
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@>
                      > > > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                      > > > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi Jerry,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
                      > > > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
                      > > > > the file
                      > > > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
                      > > > >
                      > > > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
                      > > > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
                      > > > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
                      > > > > on each one.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi Jerry,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
                      > > > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
                      > > > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
                      > > > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
                      > > > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
                      > > > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
                      > > > > the original locks.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
                      > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                      > > > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                      > > > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                      > > > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                      > > > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
                      > > > Pearsall Smith
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Julian Wilson
                      Gentles all,  I ve come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
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                        Gentles all,
                         I've come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan Castle in S. Wales.

                        I'm a Master Carpenter & Joiner.
                        I've occasionally made replica-medieval chests and coffers for Re-enactors as a pleasant and challenging change from my usual commercial housing-fit-out work.
                        I've eventually been able to find Manufacturers who produce replica-mediveal strapwork, hinges, and handles for such chests. [I've even found a UK source for rosehead cut nails to use in fixing such ironwork].
                        But so far I've been unable to find any manufacturing locksmith  who offers replica-appearance* chest and coffer box-locks and padlocks. [*By this I mean that the exposed exteriors - hasps, staples, and padlocks; - hasps and/or only faceplates,  -  of such locks should look vaguely medieval, but the "works" can be modern.]
                         So if anyone can send me contact details for such a niche-market  Manufacturing Locksmith - or even their Retail Sales Agents, I'll be very grateful.
                         Matthewe

                      • D. Young
                        Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
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                          Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                          So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                          Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                          food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment



                          Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                               Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                          www.partsandtechnical.com
                          (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                           



                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          From: lhjw66576@...
                          Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:21:09 +0100
                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                           

                          Gentles all,
                           I've come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan Castle in S. Wales.

                          I'm a Master Carpenter & Joiner.
                          I've occasionally made replica-medieval chests and coffers for Re-enactors as a pleasant and challenging change from my usual commercial housing-fit-out work.
                          I've eventually been able to find Manufacturers who produce replica-mediveal strapwork, hinges, and handles for such chests. [I've even found a UK source for rosehead cut nails to use in fixing such ironwork].
                          But so far I've been unable to find any manufacturing locksmith  who offers replica-appearance* chest and coffer box-locks and padlocks. [*By this I mean that the exposed exteriors - hasps, staples, and padlocks; - hasps and/or only faceplates,  -  of such locks should look vaguely medieval, but the "works" can be modern.]
                           So if anyone can send me contact details for such a niche-market  Manufacturing Locksmith - or even their Retail Sales Agents, I'll be very grateful.
                           Matthewe


                        • Julian Wilson
                          Thank you, Mr. Young. Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the 3-Foot Rule but haven t demanded absolute
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 24, 2013
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                            Thank you, Mr. Young.
                            Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                            I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                            But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                            I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                            Matthewe



                            From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                            To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                             
                            Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                            So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                            Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                            food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                          • bsrlee
                            The closest thing I have seen on-line lately are the restorer s padlocks being sold by Van Dyke s in the US. http://www.vandykes.com/ They have some heart
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 25, 2013
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                              The closest thing I have seen on-line lately are the "restorer's" padlocks being sold by Van Dyke's in the US.
                              http://www.vandykes.com/

                              They have some 'heart shaped' keyed padlocks which are arguably 1600's or so - similar to the triangular locks found in some of the Dutch wrecks on the Western Australian coast.

                              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=204934&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5

                              and 'screw' key padlocks
                              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=207390&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5

                              Also some fairly chunky padlock hasps as well as the 'usual' fake Spanish/Mexican sheet metal hasps.
                              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=203535&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5
                              http://www.vandykes.com/spear-point-black-iron-hasp/p/204981/

                              I think Vandykes buy a lot of their hardware by the pallet as they have 'new' items all the time, but when they sell out of something interesting it just disppears, never to return.

                              I have seen the odd small 'Viking' padlock turn up with merchants at SCA events which seem to be coming from Eastern Europe, and there is a fellow in New Zealand who is making very nice large & fancy Viking/Anglo-Saxon padlocks but they run $80-$100 IIRC.

                              regards
                              Brusi of Orkney


                              On 25-Aug-13 3:59 AM, Julian Wilson wrote:
                              Thank you, Mr. Young.
                              Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                              I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                              But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                              I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                              Matthewe

                            • D. Young
                              I hear ya Matthewe Hence the reason Im edging closer to making some. Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom Commissions Welcome....!
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 26, 2013
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                                I hear ya Matthewe

                                Hence the reason Im edging closer to making some.





                                Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                                     Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                                www.partsandtechnical.com
                                (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                                 



                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                From: lhjw66576@...
                                Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                 

                                Thank you, Mr. Young.
                                Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                                I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                                But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                                I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                                Matthewe



                                From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                                To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                 
                                Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                                So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                                Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                                food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment


                              • Hall, Hayward
                                The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 26, 2013
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                                  The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved is generally cost prohibitive.  I’ll probably never sell a 13thc barrel lock because it takes an incredible about of tedious casting, filing and fitting of small parts if you want to do it right ($$$) and if something goes wrong or gets jammed in use either through user-error or mechanical failure (lets face it, I/we don’t make these for a living), then I have a disgruntled customer (although I’ve never had a problem with mine yet).  If someone produces stuff like this commercially, then they’re not generally going to look properly medieval, and its painful to see commercial hardware on a nice handmade period piece.  All that to say you’re better off learning to make ur own, or coming to a trade agreement.

                                   

                                  Gratuitous showing off:

                                  http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock.jpg

                                  http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock2.jpg

                                   

                                  I would teach a class on making these but the odds of someone(s) showing up with enough skills to complete it without 2 hours of 1-on-1 contact are fairly slim.  I’m happy if 1 in 10 actually know how to use a file (no offense to my wonderful students).  I wish sometimes I could do more than entry-level classes, which is another discussion altogether.

                                   

                                   

                                  Guillaume

                                   


                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: lhjw66576@...
                                  Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                   

                                   

                                  Thank you, Mr. Young.
                                  Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                                  I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                                  But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                                  I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                                  Matthewe

                                   

                                   


                                  From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                                  To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                   

                                   

                                  Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                                  So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                                  Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                                  food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                                   

                                   




                                • Thylacine
                                  very nice. ... very nice. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Hall, Hayward wrote: á The problem with either locks or any period mechanism
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 27, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    very nice.


                                    On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Hall, Hayward <hallh@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved is generally cost prohibitive.  I’ll probably never sell a 13thc barrel lock because it takes an incredible about of tedious casting, filing and fitting of small parts if you want to do it right ($$$) and if something goes wrong or gets jammed in use either through user-error or mechanical failure (lets face it, I/we don’t make these for a living), then I have a disgruntled customer (although I’ve never had a problem with mine yet).  If someone produces stuff like this commercially, then they’re not generally going to look properly medieval, and its painful to see commercial hardware on a nice handmade period piece.  All that to say you’re better off learning to make ur own, or coming to a trade agreement.

                                     

                                    Gratuitous showing off:

                                    http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock.jpg

                                    http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock2.jpg

                                     

                                    I would teach a class on making these but the odds of someone(s) showing up with enough skills to complete it without 2 hours of 1-on-1 contact are fairly slim.  I’m happy if 1 in 10 actually know how to use a file (no offense to my wonderful students).  I wish sometimes I could do more than entry-level classes, which is another discussion altogether.

                                     

                                     

                                    Guillaume

                                     


                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: lhjw66576@...
                                    Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                     

                                     

                                    Thank you, Mr. Young.
                                    Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                                    I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                                    But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                                    I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                                    Matthewe

                                     

                                     


                                    From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                                    To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                                    Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                     

                                     

                                    Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                                    So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                                    Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                                    food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                                     

                                     





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