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box locks

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  • Jerry Harder
    I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am planing 10 boxes with
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 13 10:06 PM
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      I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
      has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
      planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
      and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
      how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
    • bsrlee
      Are you familiar with: http://www.historicallocks.com/en/site/hl/HistoricalLocks/ its mainly padlocks from various periods, but several are definitely
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 14 7:10 AM
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        Are you familiar with:

        http://www.historicallocks.com/en/site/hl/HistoricalLocks/

        its mainly padlocks from various periods, but several are definitely
        pre-1600.

        Unfortunately most chests that did not have 'master work' grade locks
        seem to have been updated with new locks or just had the 'rusty, old'
        lock completely removed. There are a few Roman chest locks still around,
        and it could be surmised that at least some of the later mechanisms
        survived in use, although securely dated examples are lacking, such as
        the 'Egyptian' lock which has been used within living memory in the
        south-eastern US according to Roy Underhill (Woodwright's Shop Season 14
        and Foxfire) (wooden key lifting sliding pegs allowing a draw bar to be
        moved with the key).

        I have seen mention of locks which required a number of turns of the key
        to withdraw the locking bar, and others where to locking bar is moved
        with a disguised stud while the key holds a sprung catch out of
        engagement - these all have an external hasp that goes through the front
        lock plate - no problems with wood expansion causing the strike plate to
        move out of alignment (Chris Swarz, Lost Arts Press blog). but I don't
        have the reference to hand. I think the style of lock with a plate fixed
        to the lid that has fingers entering the top edge of the lock is 17th
        Century or later (Crab lock and its descendants) although the mechanism
        is much the same as that in some pre-1600 padlocks.

        regards
        Brusi of Orkney
        Rowany/Lochac

        On 14-Aug-13 3:06 PM, Jerry Harder wrote:
        > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
        > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
        > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
        > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
        > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
        >
        >
      • D. Young
        I might be producing some in the near future. Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom Commissions Welcome....! www.partsandtechnical.com (Well Formed
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 14 10:28 AM
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          I might be producing some in the near future.



          Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

               Custom Commissions Welcome....!

          www.partsandtechnical.com
          (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
           



          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          From: geraldgoodwine@...
          Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 00:06:33 -0500
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] box locks

           
          I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
          has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
          planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
          and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
          how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked

        • gloerke
          Hi Jerry, there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 14 12:22 PM
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            Hi Jerry,

            there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of the original locks.

            Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
            >
            > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
            > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
            > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
            > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
            > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
            >
          • bsrlee
            I did a bit of looking around at on-line photos, and there are actually a several chests with locks that look to be original, where the catch mechanism is all
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 15 7:12 AM
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              I did a bit of looking around at on-line photos, and there are actually
              a several chests with locks that look to be original, where the catch
              mechanism is all internal to the chest and the finger plate is attached
              to the lid of the chest. The only one I saw a clear picture of the
              inside had exposed 'hooks' sticking up from the lock body to engage the
              lid pieceand looked to have plenty of clearance so there would have been
              no problems with mis-alignment of the two parts. All the chests seem to
              be in 'Germany', 1500's or there abouts.

              regards
              Brusi

              On 15-Aug-13 12:10 AM, bsrlee wrote:

              snip

              I think the style of lock with a plate fixed
              to the lid that has fingers entering the top edge of the lock is 17th
              Century or later (Crab lock and its descendants) although the mechanism
              is much the same as that in some pre-1600 padlocks.

              regards
              Brusi of Orkney
              Rowany/Lochac
            • gloerke
              Hi Jerry, Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get the
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 19 11:13 AM
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                Hi Jerry,

                Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get the file https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing

                By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400 medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details on each one.

                greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl

                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Jerry,
                >
                > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of the original locks.
                >
                > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                >
                > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                > >
                >
              • Michael Scherrer
                The book with 400 medieval chest, what is it called? Your blog for books has been blocked for this computer. Using Heinrich Stulpnagel will pull up over 160
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 19 1:06 PM
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                  The book with 400 medieval chest, what is it called?
                  Your blog for books has been blocked for this computer.
                  Using  Heinrich Stulpnagel will pull up over 160 possibilies..
                  Need more input please, maybe Book Title.
                   
                  Thomas
                   

                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  From: gloerke@...
                  Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:13:54 +0000
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

                   
                  Hi Jerry,

                  Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get the file https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing

                  By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400 medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details on each one.

                  greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Jerry,
                  >
                  > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of the original locks.
                  >
                  > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                  >
                  > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                  > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                  > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                  > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                  > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                  > >
                  >


                • Dave Ordway
                  I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated. Lagerstein
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 19 8:40 PM
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                    I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail.  Can someone post more detailed info on it?  An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                     
                    Lagerstein
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: gloerke
                    Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

                     

                    Hi Jerry,

                    Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get the file https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing

                    By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400 medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details on each one.

                    greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl

                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Jerry,
                    >
                    > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of the original locks.
                    >
                    > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                    >
                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                    > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                    > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                    > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                    > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                    > >
                    >

                  • Laura Iseman
                    Fron the blog I think the one meant is : - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion -
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 19 9:08 PM
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                      Fron the blog I think the one meant is :

                      • von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany  ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] A more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.

                      Laura




                      On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
                       

                      I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail.  Can someone post more detailed info on it?  An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                       
                      Lagerstein
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: gloerke
                      Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

                       

                      Hi Jerry,

                      Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get the file https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing

                      By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400 medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details on each one.

                      greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl

                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Jerry,
                      >
                      > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of the original locks.

                      >
                      > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                      >
                      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                      > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                      > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                      > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                      > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                      > >
                      >




                      --
                      "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan Pearsall Smith

                    • Michael Scherrer
                      The ISBN #, thank you........ To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com From: laurai@tpg.com.au Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:08:20 +1000 Subject: Re:
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 20 7:13 AM
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                        The ISBN #,   thank you........
                         

                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        From: laurai@...
                        Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:08:20 +1000
                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

                         
                        Fron the blog I think the one meant is :

                        • von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany  ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] A more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.

                        Laura




                        On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
                         

                        I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail.  Can someone post more detailed info on it?  An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                         
                        Lagerstein
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: gloerke
                        Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

                         

                        Hi Jerry,

                        Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get the file https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing

                        By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400 medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details on each one.

                        greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl

                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Jerry,
                        >
                        > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of the original locks.

                        >
                        > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                        >
                        > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                        > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                        > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                        > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                        > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                        > >
                        >






                        --
                        "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan Pearsall Smith


                      • gloerke
                        Exactly, that is the book! I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 20 1:03 PM
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                          Exactly, that is the book!

                          I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.

                          Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.

                          Marijn

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
                          >
                          >
                          > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
                          > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
                          > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
                          > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
                          > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
                          >
                          > *Laura*
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > **
                          > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
                          > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                          > >
                          > > Lagerstein
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@...>
                          > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                          > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi Jerry,
                          > >
                          > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
                          > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
                          > > the file
                          > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
                          > >
                          > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
                          > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
                          > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
                          > > on each one.
                          > >
                          > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
                          > >
                          > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi Jerry,
                          > > >
                          > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
                          > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
                          > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
                          > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
                          > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
                          > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
                          > > the original locks.
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                          > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                          > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                          > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                          > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
                          > Pearsall Smith
                          >
                        • conradh@...
                          I ve found quite a few period descriptions, but they re from widely scattered sources, and they refer to equally scattered countries and periods! Diversity of
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 20 3:16 PM
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                            I've found quite a few period descriptions, but they're from widely
                            scattered sources, and they refer to equally scattered countries and
                            periods!

                            Diversity of basic lock designs seems to have been greater back then,
                            simply because the coarser tolerances gave locksmiths fewer unique keys
                            than we can have today. So in order to have unique keys for their
                            customers, they utilized many different principles. You see this with
                            Viking and medieval Scandinavia, where they used primitive tumbler locks
                            (mostly made of wood) on house doors, sliding-key padlocks (much like ones
                            still made in China and India today), and those cool chest locks where you
                            stick a key in the middle, turn it ninety degrees to release the
                            locksprings, and then it becomes an operating handle that you slide
                            sideways to release two hasps, one on either side of the keyhole.

                            Tre Trykare's book on the Vikings has a three-part drawing showing this
                            lock mechanism in operation. It's very clear, except that the layout
                            people screwed up badly. The illo doesn't match the description at all,
                            and we were massively confused until we realized the pics were inside out
                            and upside down. As long as you keep in mind that you are standing on
                            your head inside the box, it all makes perfect sense! I've made several
                            copies of that lock, and am planning another for a big tool chest I'm
                            building.

                            The same book shows one of the sliding-key padlocks, which I've also copied.

                            I have documentation on a Persian lock that uses a screw mechanism for a
                            "ward"; you have to insert a threaded key and give it several turns before
                            it engages the actual lock mechanism. Obviously, you can use different
                            pitches of left or right hand thread for a variety of keys. The thread is
                            square type, apparently made by bending a small square iron rod double,
                            wrapping it hot around a mandrel to get a doubled helix, and then cutting
                            the two apart. One helix is forge-brazed to a rod the size of the mandrel
                            to make a key, the other is brazed into a tube or bored hole and becomes a
                            spiral ward for the lock. (A heavier version of this was used to make
                            metal threads for the first vises; it's about the only way I know to make
                            heavy square threads without a metal lathe. The method was still used by
                            blacksmiths in this country to rebuild worn-out vises in the 19th
                            Century.)

                            Let me know what period interests you, and I'll see if I can dig up some
                            references that are relevant.
                          • Michael Scherrer
                            Thank you for the ISBN#. Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. All came back as out of print no copies... Any where else I should try? Thomas To:
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 21 6:34 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thank you for the ISBN#.
                              Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. 
                              All came back as out of print no copies...
                              Any where else I should try?
                               
                              Thomas
                               

                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              From: gloerke@...
                              Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
                              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

                               
                              Exactly, that is the book!

                              I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.

                              Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.

                              Marijn

                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
                              >
                              >
                              > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
                              > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
                              > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
                              > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
                              > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
                              >
                              > *Laura*
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > **
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > **
                              > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
                              > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                              > >
                              > > Lagerstein
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@...>
                              > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                              > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi Jerry,
                              > >
                              > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
                              > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
                              > > the file
                              > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
                              > >
                              > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
                              > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
                              > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
                              > > on each one.
                              > >
                              > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
                              > >
                              > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi Jerry,
                              > > >
                              > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
                              > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
                              > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
                              > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
                              > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
                              > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
                              > > the original locks.
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                              > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                              > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                              > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                              > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
                              > Pearsall Smith
                              >


                            • Broom
                              ... Possibly, but don t be quick to assign reasons to things. There may have been other factors at play. Perhaps the door locksmiths came from different
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 21 8:17 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                > Diversity of basic lock designs seems to have been greater back then,
                                >
                                simply because the coarser tolerances gave locksmiths fewer unique keys
                                >
                                than we can have today. So in order to have unique keys for their
                                >
                                customers, they utilized many different principles. You see this with
                                >
                                Viking and medieval Scandinavia, where they used primitive tumbler locks
                                >
                                (mostly made of wood) on house doors, sliding-key padlocks (much like ones
                                >
                                still made in China and India today), and those cool chest locks where you
                                >
                                stick a key in the middle, turn it ninety degrees to release the
                                >
                                locksprings, and then it becomes an operating handle that you slide
                                >
                                sideways to release two hasps, one on either side of the keyhole.

                                Possibly, but don't be quick to assign reasons to things. There may have been other factors at play. Perhaps the door locksmiths came from different backgrounds - by the late Middle Ages, river boats were constructed entirely differently from seagoing vessels, and two separate guilds addressed these industries.

                                Or perhaps some other reason we haven't thought of. :)

                                ' |   Broom        IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                                ' |   cellphone:             412-389-1997
                                ' |   923 Haslage Ave, Pittsburgh, PA 15212
                                '\|/  "Discere et docere", which means:
                                '/|\  "True Fact: President Harry S Truman's full middle name is
                                //|\\ 'S'."
                              • Thylacine
                                I found a copy of it at Amazon.de (Germany) but it couldn t ship to my address for whatever reason, perhaps you may have better luck. ... I found a copy of it
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 21 3:26 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I found a copy of it at Amazon.de (Germany) but it couldn't ship to my address for whatever reason, perhaps you may have better luck.


                                  On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Thank you for the ISBN#.
                                  Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. 
                                  All came back as out of print no copies...
                                  Any where else I should try?
                                   
                                  Thomas
                                   
                                  Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000

                                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks

                                   
                                  Exactly, that is the book!

                                  I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.

                                  Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.

                                  Marijn

                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
                                  > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
                                  > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
                                  > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
                                  > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
                                  >
                                  > *Laura*
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > **
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > **
                                  > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
                                  > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                                  > >
                                  > > Lagerstein
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@...>
                                  > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                                  > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi Jerry,
                                  > >
                                  > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
                                  > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
                                  > > the file
                                  > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
                                  > >
                                  > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
                                  > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
                                  > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
                                  > > on each one.
                                  > >
                                  > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hi Jerry,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
                                  > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
                                  > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
                                  > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
                                  > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
                                  > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
                                  > > the original locks.
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                                  > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                                  > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                                  > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                                  > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
                                  > Pearsall Smith
                                  >



                                • gloerke
                                  I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left. In May this year
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 23 1:28 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left.
                                    In May this year there were still several available in the Oldenburger Freilichtmuseum in Germany (visiting on my way to the luneburger moor convents).
                                    Otherwise try abebooks.com (or abebooks.de)

                                    good luck, marijn

                                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thank you for the ISBN#.
                                    >
                                    > Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.
                                    >
                                    > All came back as out of print no copies...
                                    >
                                    > Any where else I should try?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Thomas
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    > From: gloerke@...
                                    > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
                                    > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Exactly, that is the book!
                                    >
                                    > I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.
                                    >
                                    > Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.
                                    >
                                    > Marijn
                                    >
                                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
                                    > > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
                                    > > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
                                    > > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
                                    > > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
                                    > >
                                    > > *Laura*
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > **
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > **
                                    > > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
                                    > > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Lagerstein
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@>
                                    > > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                                    > > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hi Jerry,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
                                    > > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
                                    > > > the file
                                    > > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
                                    > > >
                                    > > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
                                    > > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
                                    > > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
                                    > > > on each one.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hi Jerry,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
                                    > > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
                                    > > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
                                    > > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
                                    > > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
                                    > > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
                                    > > > the original locks.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                                    > > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                                    > > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                                    > > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                                    > > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --
                                    > > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
                                    > > Pearsall Smith
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • gloerke
                                    Damn, I made a mistake. It is freilichtmuseum cloppenburg, http://www.museumsdorf.de/ sorry, marijn
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 23 1:32 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Damn, I made a mistake. It is freilichtmuseum cloppenburg, http://www.museumsdorf.de/

                                      sorry, marijn

                                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I bought mine with: Kurt Gotz, an online bookseller from germany specializing in art history books. Perhaps he still has some copies left.
                                      > In May this year there were still several available in the Oldenburger Freilichtmuseum in Germany (visiting on my way to the luneburger moor convents).
                                      > Otherwise try abebooks.com (or abebooks.de)
                                      >
                                      > good luck, marijn
                                      >
                                      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Michael Scherrer <lordthomas@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Thank you for the ISBN#.
                                      > >
                                      > > Ran it thru Amazon UK, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.
                                      > >
                                      > > All came back as out of print no copies...
                                      > >
                                      > > Any where else I should try?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Thomas
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > From: gloerke@
                                      > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:03:41 +0000
                                      > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Exactly, that is the book!
                                      > >
                                      > > I have been to these Luneburger convents during the last years and all these chests are very impressive to see - and not what you want to take with you to re-enactment camps, far too heavy. These convents are a treasure trove for any kind of medieval stuff, including all sorts of furniture - not only chests.
                                      > >
                                      > > Anyway, the book mostly concerns the hutch type chests, but also earlier and later types are shown and compared to similar medieval chests found elsewhere.
                                      > >
                                      > > Marijn
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Laura Iseman <laurai@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Fron the blog I think the one meant is :
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > - von Stülpnagel, K.H. 2000. Die gotischen Truhen der Lüneburger
                                      > > > Heideklöster: Entwicklung - Konstruktion - Gestaltung. Stiftung
                                      > > > Museumsdorf Cloppenburg, Germany ISBN 978-3923675814. [In German] *A
                                      > > > more than complete book on medieval chests and hutches and their
                                      > > > construction. Very detailed, many black/white photographs. 380 pages.*
                                      > > >
                                      > > > *Laura*
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Dave Ordway <dabugler@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > **
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > **
                                      > > > > I tried to find the book on the blog to no avail. Can someone post more
                                      > > > > detailed info on it? An exact title or ISBN would be greatly appreciated.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Lagerstein
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > *From:* gloerke <gloerke@>
                                      > > > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 2:13 PM
                                      > > > > *Subject:* [MedievalSawdust] Re: box locks
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hi Jerry,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Uploading a 50 Mb file on chest locks seems a bit problematic in this
                                      > > > > group. However I have it available at my googledrive. Use the link to get
                                      > > > > the file
                                      > > > > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20Mk3M5ABPvLXQ3VXdPVUd4M2M/edit?usp=sharing
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > By the way, I recommend anyone interested in medieval chests to get this
                                      > > > > book. I bought mine for 25 Euro - not that expensive. There are over 400
                                      > > > > medieval chest in this book, including dimensions and construction details
                                      > > > > on each one.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > greetings, marijn / http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Hi Jerry,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > there is a lot of information on medieval box/chest locks in the german
                                      > > > > book on the Luneburger truhe by Heinrich Stulpnagel (look at the books page
                                      > > > > of the saint thomasguild blog for more details). I have once made a pdf on
                                      > > > > the locks section for a blacksmith who made the locks for my toolchest. I
                                      > > > > can post it here, but you will have to wait for a week as I am now on
                                      > > > > holiday. It is of course in german, but it has good photos of the inside of
                                      > > > > the original locks.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Regards, marijn - st.thomasguild
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I found a good how to set of articles on making medieval locks but it
                                      > > > > > > has one great flaw. It does not have any period examples. I am
                                      > > > > > > planing 10 boxes with locks and have the first one built with no lock
                                      > > > > > > and the second half way there. Can anyone help with period examples of
                                      > > > > > > how the locks behind the "locking plate" worked
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --
                                      > > > "The test of a vocation is the love of the drudgery it involves." -- Logan
                                      > > > Pearsall Smith
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Julian Wilson
                                      Gentles all,  I ve come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 24 6:21 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Gentles all,
                                         I've come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan Castle in S. Wales.

                                        I'm a Master Carpenter & Joiner.
                                        I've occasionally made replica-medieval chests and coffers for Re-enactors as a pleasant and challenging change from my usual commercial housing-fit-out work.
                                        I've eventually been able to find Manufacturers who produce replica-mediveal strapwork, hinges, and handles for such chests. [I've even found a UK source for rosehead cut nails to use in fixing such ironwork].
                                        But so far I've been unable to find any manufacturing locksmith  who offers replica-appearance* chest and coffer box-locks and padlocks. [*By this I mean that the exposed exteriors - hasps, staples, and padlocks; - hasps and/or only faceplates,  -  of such locks should look vaguely medieval, but the "works" can be modern.]
                                         So if anyone can send me contact details for such a niche-market  Manufacturing Locksmith - or even their Retail Sales Agents, I'll be very grateful.
                                         Matthewe

                                      • D. Young
                                        Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 24 7:23 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                                          So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                                          Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                                          food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment



                                          Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                                               Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                                          www.partsandtechnical.com
                                          (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                                           



                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: lhjw66576@...
                                          Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:21:09 +0100
                                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                           

                                          Gentles all,
                                           I've come late to this discussion, having just spent the last two weeks away from my PC,  - instead camping late-15th century-style at Raglan Castle in S. Wales.

                                          I'm a Master Carpenter & Joiner.
                                          I've occasionally made replica-medieval chests and coffers for Re-enactors as a pleasant and challenging change from my usual commercial housing-fit-out work.
                                          I've eventually been able to find Manufacturers who produce replica-mediveal strapwork, hinges, and handles for such chests. [I've even found a UK source for rosehead cut nails to use in fixing such ironwork].
                                          But so far I've been unable to find any manufacturing locksmith  who offers replica-appearance* chest and coffer box-locks and padlocks. [*By this I mean that the exposed exteriors - hasps, staples, and padlocks; - hasps and/or only faceplates,  -  of such locks should look vaguely medieval, but the "works" can be modern.]
                                           So if anyone can send me contact details for such a niche-market  Manufacturing Locksmith - or even their Retail Sales Agents, I'll be very grateful.
                                           Matthewe


                                        • Julian Wilson
                                          Thank you, Mr. Young. Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the 3-Foot Rule but haven t demanded absolute
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Aug 24 10:59 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thank you, Mr. Young.
                                            Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                                            I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                                            But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                                            I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                                            Matthewe



                                            From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                                            To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                                            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                             
                                            Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                                            So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                                            Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                                            food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                                          • bsrlee
                                            The closest thing I have seen on-line lately are the restorer s padlocks being sold by Van Dyke s in the US. http://www.vandykes.com/ They have some heart
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Aug 25 3:18 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              The closest thing I have seen on-line lately are the "restorer's" padlocks being sold by Van Dyke's in the US.
                                              http://www.vandykes.com/

                                              They have some 'heart shaped' keyed padlocks which are arguably 1600's or so - similar to the triangular locks found in some of the Dutch wrecks on the Western Australian coast.

                                              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=204934&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5

                                              and 'screw' key padlocks
                                              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=207390&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5

                                              Also some fairly chunky padlock hasps as well as the 'usual' fake Spanish/Mexican sheet metal hasps.
                                              http://www.vandykes.com/product.aspx?p=203535&green=95C2577F-3A8A-5C46-A843-2A18EA9873D5
                                              http://www.vandykes.com/spear-point-black-iron-hasp/p/204981/

                                              I think Vandykes buy a lot of their hardware by the pallet as they have 'new' items all the time, but when they sell out of something interesting it just disppears, never to return.

                                              I have seen the odd small 'Viking' padlock turn up with merchants at SCA events which seem to be coming from Eastern Europe, and there is a fellow in New Zealand who is making very nice large & fancy Viking/Anglo-Saxon padlocks but they run $80-$100 IIRC.

                                              regards
                                              Brusi of Orkney


                                              On 25-Aug-13 3:59 AM, Julian Wilson wrote:
                                              Thank you, Mr. Young.
                                              Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                                              I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                                              But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                                              I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                                              Matthewe

                                            • D. Young
                                              I hear ya Matthewe Hence the reason Im edging closer to making some. Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom Commissions Welcome....!
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Aug 26 2:39 PM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I hear ya Matthewe

                                                Hence the reason Im edging closer to making some.





                                                Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                                                     Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                                                www.partsandtechnical.com
                                                (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                                                 



                                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                From: lhjw66576@...
                                                Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                                                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                                 

                                                Thank you, Mr. Young.
                                                Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                                                I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                                                But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                                                I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                                                Matthewe



                                                From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                                                To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                                                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                                 
                                                Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                                                So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                                                Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                                                food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment


                                              • Hall, Hayward
                                                The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Aug 26 9:06 PM
                                                • 0 Attachment

                                                  The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved is generally cost prohibitive.  I’ll probably never sell a 13thc barrel lock because it takes an incredible about of tedious casting, filing and fitting of small parts if you want to do it right ($$$) and if something goes wrong or gets jammed in use either through user-error or mechanical failure (lets face it, I/we don’t make these for a living), then I have a disgruntled customer (although I’ve never had a problem with mine yet).  If someone produces stuff like this commercially, then they’re not generally going to look properly medieval, and its painful to see commercial hardware on a nice handmade period piece.  All that to say you’re better off learning to make ur own, or coming to a trade agreement.

                                                   

                                                  Gratuitous showing off:

                                                  http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock.jpg

                                                  http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock2.jpg

                                                   

                                                  I would teach a class on making these but the odds of someone(s) showing up with enough skills to complete it without 2 hours of 1-on-1 contact are fairly slim.  I’m happy if 1 in 10 actually know how to use a file (no offense to my wonderful students).  I wish sometimes I could do more than entry-level classes, which is another discussion altogether.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Guillaume

                                                   


                                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                  From: lhjw66576@...
                                                  Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                                                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Thank you, Mr. Young.
                                                  Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                                                  I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                                                  But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                                                  I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                                                  Matthewe

                                                   

                                                   


                                                  From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                                                  To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                                                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                                                  So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                                                  Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                                                  food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                                                   

                                                   




                                                • Thylacine
                                                  very nice. ... very nice. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Hall, Hayward wrote: á The problem with either locks or any period mechanism
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Aug 27 1:42 AM
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    very nice.


                                                    On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Hall, Hayward <hallh@...> wrote:
                                                     

                                                    The problem with either locks or any period mechanism or tool is that you really need to understand its workings in order to maintain it, and the time involved is generally cost prohibitive.  I’ll probably never sell a 13thc barrel lock because it takes an incredible about of tedious casting, filing and fitting of small parts if you want to do it right ($$$) and if something goes wrong or gets jammed in use either through user-error or mechanical failure (lets face it, I/we don’t make these for a living), then I have a disgruntled customer (although I’ve never had a problem with mine yet).  If someone produces stuff like this commercially, then they’re not generally going to look properly medieval, and its painful to see commercial hardware on a nice handmade period piece.  All that to say you’re better off learning to make ur own, or coming to a trade agreement.

                                                     

                                                    Gratuitous showing off:

                                                    http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock.jpg

                                                    http://personal.evangel.edu/hallh/web/medievalstuff/barrellock2.jpg

                                                     

                                                    I would teach a class on making these but the odds of someone(s) showing up with enough skills to complete it without 2 hours of 1-on-1 contact are fairly slim.  I’m happy if 1 in 10 actually know how to use a file (no offense to my wonderful students).  I wish sometimes I could do more than entry-level classes, which is another discussion altogether.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Guillaume

                                                     


                                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                    From: lhjw66576@...
                                                    Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:59:31 +0100
                                                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Thank you, Mr. Young.
                                                    Most of my clients so far, for medievally-themed chests and coffers - have wanted to pass the "3-Foot Rule" but haven't demanded absolute historical-replica accuracy.
                                                    I have found quite a large selection of "blackwork" hinges, corner protections, and strapwork available off-the-shelf; - and if I had to do so, I could even make them myself though it's not a Craft I have much reason to exercise.
                                                    But chest locks which will pass the 3-Foot Rule - even with modern mechanisms inside or behind a period case/faceplate - none of the Manufacurers from whom I could by a wide range of such period hinges /strapwork - also offer the extra lock-accessory in their online Catalogues. And no-one seems to offer any replica-"period" padlocks dating to before 1600AD. I've spent hours searching online without positive results - or I wouldn't be asking the question in this Forum.
                                                    I'm grateful for your early response, naytheless.
                                                    Matthewe

                                                     

                                                     


                                                    From: D. Young <furnaceplans@...>
                                                    To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 15:23
                                                    Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] replica antique box locks

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Its very important to note that the hardware: nails, hinges, straps, and lock.....represent a tremendous amount of time that we dont often account for.....particularly as some of these things are custom oriented to the size of the box.

                                                    So...want accuracy....might have to pay for it.

                                                    Rather like using wide oak lumber vs 2.5 inch oak flooring....

                                                    food for thought.   Accuracy = time= more money= investment

                                                     

                                                     





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