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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Teaching

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  • Jerry Harder
    I mentioned in a previous reply that I would be interested in a class or now that I think about a pdf with appropriate pictures on how to sharpen plain blades.
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 13, 2013
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      I mentioned in a previous reply that I would be interested in a class or now that I think about a pdf with appropriate pictures on how to sharpen plain blades.  This also applies to lathe tools for both modern and treadle lathes.  what angles should these tools have and for what purpose?


      On 8/13/2013 8:28 PM, frode_kettilsson wrote:
       

      Greetings Good Gentles!
      Having watched the lively discussions on teaching (at Pennsic) and
      mastery, I'm made to wonder...

      Fighters gather together locally to learn their methods and practice, as
      do fencers and archers, and these activities are governed with an eye to
      safety and efficiency. Costumers and cooks and bards all gather
      regularly to improve their arts.

      Is there anything like this for wood working? Could there be? Maybe a
      basic overview of the most common tools in period and how they were used
      effectively and how to maintain them. Followed up with exercises
      appropriate to the tool (carving a spoon, for example, or turning a
      stool leg) to give a feel for what was involved in making everyday
      things. From that simple beginning, students might decide if they
      wished to continue to more complex projects. The basic tools are not
      that expensive ($20 at Harbor Freight buys a terrible set of turning
      tools. Half a day regrinding the bevels yields a set suitable for pole
      lathe use with softer woods. Not what you'd choose if that's how you
      made your living, but perfectly fine for hands on demo work). A couple
      of shave horses and pole lathes could be had by every Barony, along with
      basic tools for less than $500, easily. I'm working up a plan for a
      lathe for myself that knocks flat for travel and pins/bolts together in
      minutes for classes/shows. A standardized plan (not mine, heheh) could
      be circulated to eliminate wheel inventing and make getting into the
      whole business easier. Local woodworkers might volunteer the
      construction of all or parts of the necessary items. Loaner tools could
      be maintained for new comers and visitors, much like loaner gear or
      garb.

      I would imagine you'd want this to be a waivered, "marshaled" activity,
      for safety reasons, but we all do that at events anyway, so... :)

      Does something like this already exist?

      Just a thought,
      Frode


    • frode_kettilsson
      Yes, I think that would be a very good thing to have! Frode
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 14, 2013
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        Yes, I think that would be a very good thing to have!
        Frode

        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I mentioned in a previous reply that I would be interested in a class or
        > now that I think about a pdf with appropriate pictures on how to sharpen
        > plain blades. This also applies to lathe tools for both modern and
        > treadle lathes. what angles should these tools have and for what purpose?
        >
        >
      • Baron Valerian of Somerset
        Jerry, I m not an expert on plane blade sharpening (I just hit mine on my Tormek), but a quick Google search will turn up numerous videos for sharpening them
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 14, 2013
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          Jerry, 

          I'm not an expert on plane blade sharpening (I just hit mine on my Tormek), but a quick Google search will turn up numerous videos for sharpening them freehand on stones or sandpaper.  Here's one from a reliable source... http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/speedy-freehand-sharpening.aspx 

          In terms of lathe tools, I'm a reasonably accomplished turner on modern equipment, and have learned from modern masters like David Ellsworth and Jimmy Clewes.  While most professional turners have their 'signature tool' sharpened the way they like it, the general answer to 'what grind should I put on my tool' is 'whatever works for you'.  The fact that looking at a turning catalog and seeing a wide variety of signature gouges, skews, etc. reenforces this point.  

          As a resource for tool angles, I like the Tormek Woodturner's Instruction Manual.  I couldn't find a link to the standard one, but here's one to their guide to sharpening on a bench grinder.  If you ignore the part about how to use their jigs (unless you want to - they work great), you get a lot of pictures and info on popular angles for sharpening turning tools for use on power lathes.  http://www.tormek.com/en/accessories/bgm100/pdf/instruction_bgm-100_en.pdf  You can also check out some popular turning sites such as www.woodturnersresource.com, www.woodturningonline.com, or the AAW site at www.woodturner.org.  All have good articles and tutorials from accomplished turners to help you.  

          In terms of turning on human-powered lathes, there seems to be a bit less consensus on the correct angle.  Some folks seem to think that the same tools used on a modern lathe will work, while others suggest sharpening at a lower angle, which will provide a cleaner cut but requires more frequent sharpening (and without the aid of a modern sharpening system, I seem to think that period turners would probably have gone with an angle that required less frequent trips to a sharpening stone, possibly using a lower angle tool just for a final pass as a finishing cut).  There are good discussions about sharpening tools for pole lathe use (and lots of other pole lathe turning info) at the Bodger's forums ... https://www.bodgers.org.uk/bb/phpBB2/ 

          Hope this helps,

          -Valerian

          Baron Valerian of Somerset
          Carolingia, East Kingdom


          On Aug 14, 2013, at 12:30 AM, Jerry Harder wrote:

           


          I mentioned in a previous reply that I would be interested in a class or now that I think about a pdf with appropriate pictures on how to sharpen plain blades.  This also applies to lathe tools for both modern and treadle lathes.  what angles should these tools have and for what purpose?


          On 8/13/2013 8:28 PM, frode_kettilsson wrote:
           

          Greetings Good Gentles!
          Having watched the lively discussions on teaching (at Pennsic) and
          mastery, I'm made to wonder...

          Fighters gather together locally to learn their methods and practice, as
          do fencers and archers, and these activities are governed with an eye to
          safety and efficiency. Costumers and cooks and bards all gather
          regularly to improve their arts.

          Is there anything like this for wood working? Could there be? Maybe a
          basic overview of the most common tools in period and how they were used
          effectively and how to maintain them. Followed up with exercises
          appropriate to the tool (carving a spoon, for example, or turning a
          stool leg) to give a feel for what was involved in making everyday
          things. From that simple beginning, students might decide if they
          wished to continue to more complex projects. The basic tools are not
          that expensive ($20 at Harbor Freight buys a terrible set of turning
          tools. Half a day regrinding the bevels yields a set suitable for pole
          lathe use with softer woods. Not what you'd choose if that's how you
          made your living, but perfectly fine for hands on demo work). A couple
          of shave horses and pole lathes could be had by every Barony, along with
          basic tools for less than $500, easily. I'm working up a plan for a
          lathe for myself that knocks flat for travel and pins/bolts together in
          minutes for classes/shows. A standardized plan (not mine, heheh) could
          be circulated to eliminate wheel inventing and make getting into the
          whole business easier. Local woodworkers might volunteer the
          construction of all or parts of the necessary items. Loaner tools could
          be maintained for new comers and visitors, much like loaner gear or
          garb.

          I would imagine you'd want this to be a waivered, "marshaled" activity,
          for safety reasons, but we all do that at events anyway, so... :)

          Does something like this already exist?

          Just a thought,
          Frode




        • K
          One tool. in the shops they may have had more. but bodgers/ itinerant woodturners frequently only had one tool, and changing bevel angles between roughing and
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 20, 2013
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            One tool. in the shops they may have had more. but bodgers/ itinerant woodturners frequently only had one tool, and changing bevel angles between roughing and finishing then is not entirely optimal.

            I own two antique hand forged gouges that were used in this country (USA) before power was common. both have/had bevels of an angle between 20 and 25 degrees. also the gouges are wide,@ 2", and shallow, @ 3/8" rise.

            with a little practice I learned that I can make any shape you might want with one of them.
            the low rpm and torque of a foot lathe and the very hard steel combine to make breaking/chipping the edge not a problem.

            However this low angle may be dangerous on a electric lathe.
            K
            one tool to rule them all (snicker)

            I have not seen proof of the use of hook tools in early america. Hook tools are very common in Europe and must have been for centuries.
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