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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Box jounts

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  • Hall, Hayward
    If you go a few images in, the side shot shows they are dovetails. :( Cool box though. From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 11, 2013
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      If you go a few images in, the side shot shows they are dovetails. L

       

      Cool box though.

       

      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vels inn Viggladi
      Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 12:40 PM
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Box jounts

       




      Serendipitously, I was doing a bit of digging on Cassone just now and came across this : http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O81200/cassone-unknown/
      Enlarge the first image and the box joint is ridiculously evident.
      The piece is from Tuscany, circa 1430-1460. It's a good sized chest.

      Unrelated to your needs, I feel compelled to point out that what the English call "Poplar" is what those in the States would call "Popple" or "Cottonwood."


      Vels

      > To:

      medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      > From: geraldgoodwine@...
      > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 02:13:11 -0500
      > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Box jounts
      >
      > I didn't get much of a response so I am assuming there is little if any
      > evidence but I'll try again. Does anyone know of any examples of the
      > medieval use of finger joints also called box or knuckle joints.
      >
      >
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    • Jerry Harder
      That s what I am finding but it had nothing to do with glue. I have been using medieval glue for years and they work fine.
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 13, 2013
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        That's what I am finding but it had nothing to do with glue.  I have been using medieval glue for years and they work fine.


        On 8/11/2013 8:28 AM, Jeff wrote:
         


        The answer is that they didn't use box joints until the modern period - 20th century, when glues became stable enough to hold the jount together, without the mechanical help of the dovetail structuer. So, no, there is no evidence to use it for anything in the periods covered by the SCA.

        Sorry

        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
        >
        > I didn't get much of a response so I am assuming there is little if any
        > evidence but I'll try again. Does anyone know of any examples of the
        > medieval use of finger joints also called box or knuckle joints.
        >


      • Jerry Harder
        Just finished the just do it a couple of days ago. Working on a lock design now before putting the box together.
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 13, 2013
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          Just finished the just do it a couple of days ago.  Working on a lock design now before putting the box together.

          On 8/11/2013 9:37 AM, Peter Ellison wrote:
           
          Personally I have not seen this type of joint until machines started to make them. 

          Working by hand they are no less effort than dove tails, since your going to transfer the marks based cutting the first one you might as well angle the cuts so that even if the glue fails the joint will hold together.


          What I have seen examples of:
          For connecting panels, rabit and nailed panels (6 board chest type boxes).
          Frame and panel, the frame is mortice and tenon joined with floating panels. (think door panels)
          Depending on region and application dovetailed joints. (seem to be less common but they show up in strange places)

          If your going to make a bunch of boxes and paint them it does not really matter since paint will cover the joint.  If your doing it by hand and you have never made dove tails my suggestion is "just do it" it is not as hard and complicated as people make it out.

          Peter Petrovitch.


          On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
           

          I didn't get much of a response so I am assuming there is little if any
          evidence but I'll try again. Does anyone know of any examples of the
          medieval use of finger joints also called box or knuckle joints.



        • Jerry Harder
          Im not convinced. I think the front panel may have the pins and the sides have the dovetails. The view of the side is not really clear enough to tell.
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 13, 2013
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            Im not convinced.  I think the front panel may have the pins and the sides have the dovetails.  The view of the side is not really clear enough to tell.

            n 8/11/2013 12:39 PM, Vels inn Viggladi wrote:
             

            Serendipitously, I was doing a bit of digging on Cassone just now and came across this : http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O81200/cassone-unknown/
            Enlarge the first image and the box joint is ridiculously evident.
            The piece is from Tuscany, circa 1430-1460. It's a good sized chest.

            Unrelated to your needs, I feel compelled to point out that what the English call "Poplar" is what those in the States would call "Popple" or "Cottonwood."


            Vels

            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > From: geraldgoodwine@...
            > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 02:13:11 -0500
            > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Box jounts
            >
            > I didn't get much of a response so I am assuming there is little if any
            > evidence but I'll try again. Does anyone know of any examples of the
            > medieval use of finger joints also called box or knuckle joints.
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/
            >
            > <*> Your email settings:
            > Individual Email | Traditional
            >
            > <*> To change settings online go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/join
            > (Yahoo! ID required)
            >
            > <*> To change settings via email:
            > medievalsawdust-digest@yahoogroups.com
            > medievalsawdust-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >

          • David
            ... Could you give me some direction on making medieval glues? I have Cennini s milk glue recipe. I would like to try to make some other glues and strength
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 13, 2013
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              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
              >
              > That's what I am finding but it had nothing to do with glue. I have
              > been using medieval glue for years and they work fine.

              Could you give me some direction on making medieval glues? I have Cennini's milk glue recipe. I would like to try to make some other glues and strength test them.
              Tristan
            • Jerry Harder
              The following attachment should help
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 13, 2013
              The following attachment should help

              On 8/13/2013 7:33 AM, David wrote:
               



              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Harder <geraldgoodwine@...> wrote:
              >
              > That's what I am finding but it had nothing to do with glue. I have
              > been using medieval glue for years and they work fine.

              Could you give me some direction on making medieval glues? I have Cennini's milk glue recipe. I would like to try to make some other glues and strength test them.
              Tristan


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