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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Pennsic classes; Woodworking

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  • Siegfried
    ... Yes, but doing that often leads to very small numbers in your class. So it becomes a If I m going to do it, I should do it properly by deadline, if I
    Message 1 of 42 , Aug 6, 2013
      > As for your folks who teach having problems with the “book” deadline, do
      > they realize that they still can teach with the University?

      Yes, but doing that often leads to very small numbers in your class. So
      it becomes a "If I'm going to do it, I should do it properly by
      deadline, if I miss the deadline, I shouldn't bother" absolute statement.

      Not true mind you. But, how people think.

      > There are
      > additions and deletions listed daily in the Pennsic Independent, and
      > also posted at A&S Point. This has been done for many years, and I see
      > many folks stopping to check the boards every time I pass by the Point
      > during its open hours.

      Yes, true. But again, that becomes some of the frustration also, when
      you go to attend a class, walk for 30 minutes to get there (Welcome to
      Pennsic), to find that it was cancelled but that the paper urchins
      didn't make it by your camp yet that year.

      (The urchins really weren't nearly out in force this year as previous.
      And seemed to have been chided about not singing, I heard some weird
      rules from some of them about it, as to why they weren't)

      > I thought they had fixed the problem about who arrives
      > first a couple years ago, but I guess not.

      How? If the instructor shows up, and there are 80 people standing
      around. Well, honor system 'should' prevail. But unfortunately, it
      doesn't often. Plus honor system only works when all 80 really know who
      showed up first anyway, which isn't always the case anyway.

      > The University staff work hard and long to get all those many classes
      > scheduled, and sometimes, small things will fall through the crack. An
      > example: I thought for sure I told them the cost of a class I taught in
      > the University class tents, but I found just before the class that it
      > was NOT put into the book. If I forgot to mention it, I cannot recall.
      > And, it was my fault for not catching it when they offered me the chance
      > to proof-read my description. I told my class that either I forgot to
      > tell them, or it just slipped through a class, and therefore, I asked
      > for a donation for the materials and handout… everyone gladly gave me my
      > usual fee. They didn’t have to, as I stressed the donation part. But
      > this is just an example about something not being in the book, but was
      > handled calmly (I hope).

      I heard of a few other issues of that as well. A lady teaching from my
      camp, had her class not be listed at all in the book, even though she
      submitted in March. She was 'rudely' greeted by the University staff
      with a : "What, did you only submit it a few days ago?" ... And she had
      to explain otherwise, and even had documentation to show that it had
      been done in time. When they looked in the system, it had, just, didn't
      print out for some reason.

      > If it is OK with you, I will happily pass on your concerns to the
      > University staff members. Let me know one way or the other.

      Not a problem, please, do feel free -- Just please to clarify, I am
      speaking on behalf of a 'group of people' here. These concerns are not
      '*MY*' concerns.


      Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
      http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
    • Jerry Harder
      I am sure there are a few bad eggs out there. But remember peers are people too. Yes we have been recognized that we are models of what a scathen should
      Message 42 of 42 , Aug 13, 2013
        I am sure there are a few bad eggs out there.  But remember peers are people too.  Yes we have been "recognized" that we are models  of what a scathen should be.  We have sworn to uphold the ideas and traditions of the society.  But, We have our bad days.  Its hard to be chivalrous when someone tells malicious stories or spreads out and out lies about us, stabs us in the back, and sometimes when things just don't go right.  We get angry and frustrated with things that happen in life.  We are expected to "play" at a higher level, but what happens when your the autocrat for the event, and the feastacrat doesn't show up and your other two major helpers got into a fight, one just left, its an hour before feast and no food is on site and no one seems to know where it's at or even if its been bought.  Inters now a  5 year acquaintance introducing someone interested in woodworking to you THE woodworking laurel.   Your response, however gracious, may be interpreted as snooty, or unapproachable.  Forgive us a little.   There are a few of us who would make a loud "pop!" when our heads are extracted from out you know whats, but you still get to choose who you to talk to and associate with.  None of us are perfect.  We are all flawed.  But we all love the SCA and hopefully are trying to make it a better place.

        On 8/11/2013 11:15 PM, Rachel Stallings wrote:

        I have run into one of each personally and people I have known have have also run into it and if you go on Facebook there is a page  specifically for people who are trying to become artisans and they relate their personal stories. That is where I got the information.

        On Aug 11, 2013 10:17 PM, "Helen Schultz" <helen.schultz@...> wrote:

        I’ve got to chime in a bit here.  Your last comments about “stories” worries me a bit.  I think most of them are just that… stories.   I’m not a Laurel for woodworking, but a Laurel is a Laurel, no matter their chosen field.  A part of our pledge to the Crown is to keep teaching.  Also, when we are looking at someone in the Laurel Circle, how they conduct themselves and pass on their knowledge is key to whether or not we recommend elevation.   I don’t think I have ever in my 29 years in the SCA (and 19 years as a Laurel) encountered a snooty Laurel or Brass Hat.  I have, perhaps, just been really lucky, but I tend to doubt it.  I get people coming up to me after I have taught a class and tell me how much they enjoyed the class and that I was not intimidating at all.  This made me very happy, because I strive to be the same person I was before I was elevated, just more knowledgeable now <grin>.  I think Master Avery is also not a heck of a lot different than he was before his elevation, personality-wise… and I am a bit awed by his knowledge base with wood (as mine is so modern and fragmentary).


        But, I can say this type of Peer-fear is also prevalent in mundane life.  I spent 20 years in the Air Force, the first 5.5 years as an enlisted carpenter, and the remaining years as an officer behind a desk.  I remember being on fairly friendly terms with high ranking officers (like the Base and Wing Commanders) when I was a carpenter, and my own father being totally surprised I had the guts to talk to them as though they were normal people.   People just have to learn that Peers are people just like they are… we all put on pants the same way; one leg at a time <grin>.   


        I do like your thoughts about prominently posting levels in classes… this is something we tend to forget to do from time to time.  The same applies to some Kingdoms’ A&S criteria (my own Midrealm is a problem here, too), there should be judging based on experience levels, not just one for everyone.  Beginners are not going to approach a project the same as an intermediate or advanced artisan.


        Rachel, I don’t think you stepped on any toes, but I think you did inadvertently point out one of the saddest failings of human beings… we tend to believe nasty stories and rumors rather and  try to find the truth of the matter. <sigh>


        Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL




        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rachel Stallings


        Wanted to offer an opinion...


        Personally, I would feel less intimidated about asking a non-Laurel questions than I do a Laurel. 

        Also, there is a period correct (approx 14th century, I think) tourney fence that I think you could make into an hour class for a single section of fence (even for a beginner like me). Instead of having everyone haul home a single section of fence you could try to find a sponsor (group, or a horseback rider or simply an interested party)to buy the materials for....say 10 to 14 students and the sponsor keeps the fence, but everyone in the group goes home with a usable skill, and keeps all the space in their car for packing all the stuff they bought with them.  I would really like to see classes marked for Complete Novice, Novice, Beginner that knows how to sand, (and/or stain, or use a hand brace). that way I know that the class is in my skill level and I don't have to worry about feeling overwhelmed or wasting the instructor's time (by needing too much of his or her class time) I would like a class that it's okay for me to be a rank beginner who is really afraid to start off with out any kind of safety net. (I'm a worry-wort, in case you cant tell.) I think that as far as elevation goes a major criteria should be the individual's attitude and willingness to teach and be supportive. The stories about Laurel Snooty-pants or Brass Hat So and So having been hateful about a first effort is intimidating, and a bit worrisome to beginners like me. 


        Also a class on finding documentation, and ensuring it's authenticity would work for all A&S not just woodworking. 


        Okay, sorry for the verbal diarrhea, and hopefully I didn't step on any toes. 


        I hope you have a great day!

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