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Mary Rose Planes

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  • Hall, Hayward
    I m sure this has been discussed here but I can t find it, so... Does anyone have the rough dimensions of these planes handy?
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 14, 2013
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      I'm sure this has been discussed here but I can't find it, so...

      Does anyone have the rough dimensions of these planes handy?

      http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MaryRose-planes2.JPG

      Also I can't tell on the back one which way the blade is supposed to be facing, but it doesn't appear to have a pegged wedge like the other. Of course, anyone that wants to post detailed info about the MR planes and braces would get extra points. I see a lot of text references to them online but not images. Thinking about these for a possible class on plane-making for the Fiber Leather or Wood symposium next month.

      (Waiting for the reprint of Before the Mast to come but I'm getting impatient)

      Guillaume
    • henrikofhavn
      I am no expert nor am i familiar in any way with the Mary Rose finds of tools. However I have used Japanese wooden block planes since the 1970 s, for what that
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 15, 2013
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        I am no expert nor am i familiar in any way with the Mary Rose finds of tools. However I have used Japanese wooden block planes since the 1970's, for what that may be worth.

        I'm not sure what you mean by saying "...it doesn't appear to have a pegged wedge like the other.". In my opinion I see the ends of a cross dowel on both bodies and it appears that they are both located off center of what I would call the cutout space in the plane body, for the blade, wedge and shavings. In the front plane this cross dowel seems to be closer to the right hand side of this cutout and this appears to be where the plane iron is located and where the wedge is closest also. In the back plane this cross dowel seems closest to the left end of the cutout and the wedge in this plane is more difficult to determine which end it favors. Perhaps that is what you are referring to in your statement. In any case there is a dark stain on the wood at the left end of the cutout which may indicate the location of the iron and the knob on the right end of the body seems to be a handle of sorts which would facilitate pushing the body to the right with extra force, also implying the blade would be on the left end of the cutout.

        So to sum up, three indicators seem to indicate the b lade location is at the left side of the cutout, the cross peg is closer to that end, the stain is there and the handle indicates it would be to the left end of the cutout. That's my guess, it's on the left of the rear plane.

        Henrik

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Hall, Hayward" <hallh@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm sure this has been discussed here but I can't find it, so...
        >
        > Does anyone have the rough dimensions of these planes handy?
        >
        > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MaryRose-planes2.JPG
        >
        > Also I can't tell on the back one which way the blade is supposed to be facing, but it doesn't appear to have a pegged wedge like the other. Of course, anyone that wants to post detailed info about the MR planes and braces would get extra points. I see a lot of text references to them online but not images. Thinking about these for a possible class on plane-making for the Fiber Leather or Wood symposium next month.
        >
        > (Waiting for the reprint of Before the Mast to come but I'm getting impatient)
        >
        > Guillaume
        >
      • Hall, Hayward
        I wouldn t argue that too much either way without more evidence, but on the back one (top one) if you enlarge the photo, that black dot appears to be more of
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 15, 2013
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          I wouldn't argue that too much either way without more evidence, but on the back one (top one) if you enlarge the photo, that black dot appears to be more of a stain than a peg. I know some planes were pegged to hold the wedge and others had an integral cheek piece.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of henrikofhavn
          Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 1:23 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Mary Rose Planes

          I am no expert nor am i familiar in any way with the Mary Rose finds of tools. However I have used Japanese wooden block planes since the 1970's, for what that may be worth.

          I'm not sure what you mean by saying "...it doesn't appear to have a pegged wedge like the other.". In my opinion I see the ends of a cross dowel on both bodies and it appears that they are both located off center of what I would call the cutout space in the plane body, for the blade, wedge and shavings. In the front plane this cross dowel seems to be closer to the right hand side of this cutout and this appears to be where the plane iron is located and where the wedge is closest also. In the back plane this cross dowel seems closest to the left end of the cutout and the wedge in this plane is more difficult to determine which end it favors. Perhaps that is what you are referring to in your statement. In any case there is a dark stain on the wood at the left end of the cutout which may indicate the location of the iron and the knob on the right end of the body seems to be a handle of sorts which would facilitate pushing the body to the right with extra force, also implying the blade would be on the left end of the cutout.

          So to sum up, three indicators seem to indicate the b lade location is at the left side of the cutout, the cross peg is closer to that end, the stain is there and the handle indicates it would be to the left end of the cutout. That's my guess, it's on the left of the rear plane.

          Henrik

          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Hall, Hayward" <hallh@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm sure this has been discussed here but I can't find it, so...
          >
          > Does anyone have the rough dimensions of these planes handy?
          >
          > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MaryRose-planes2.JPG
          >
          > Also I can't tell on the back one which way the blade is supposed to be facing, but it doesn't appear to have a pegged wedge like the other. Of course, anyone that wants to post detailed info about the MR planes and braces would get extra points. I see a lot of text references to them online but not images. Thinking about these for a possible class on plane-making for the Fiber Leather or Wood symposium next month.
          >
          > (Waiting for the reprint of Before the Mast to come but I'm getting impatient)
          >
          > Guillaume
          >




          ------------------------------------
        • David Whitby
          The 2 planes are both Moulding thumb planes made from box wood. They have deep hollows running along the sole ..not visible in the photo. The top one is 135mm
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 20, 2013
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            The 2 planes are both Moulding thumb planes made from box wood. They have deep hollows running along the sole ..not visible in the photo.
             
            The top one is 135mm long. The body is 32mm wide at the throat, and about 24mm wide at both the toe and heel. The book describes it as having double front and single rear wedges. The plane in the photo is facing to the left (the knob-looking end is the back). The blade angle looks steep, about 65 degrees.
             
            The bottom one is 142mm long and 24mm wide.
             
            Hope this helps,
            Ed
             
          • Hall, Hayward
            Yes, thank you. I m not sure I understand the double front and single rear wedge though. From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 21, 2013
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              Yes, thank you.  I’m not sure I understand the “double front and single rear wedge” though.

               

              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Whitby
              Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 11:56 PM
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Mary Rose Planes

               




              The 2 planes are both Moulding thumb planes made from box wood. They have deep hollows running along the sole ..not visible in the photo.

               

              The top one is 135mm long. The body is 32mm wide at the throat, and about 24mm wide at both the toe and heel. The book describes it as having double front and single rear wedges. The plane in the photo is facing to the left (the knob-looking end is the back). The blade angle looks steep, about 65 degrees.

               

              The bottom one is 142mm long and 24mm wide.

               

              Hope this helps,

              Ed

               




            • kai_saerpren
              32mmm wide throught is not thumb plane size it is more like smooth plane size. one is a forksrtaff and the other a smoother. I certainly have never heard of
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 23, 2013
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                32mmm wide throught is not thumb plane size it is more like smooth plane size. one is a forksrtaff and the other a smoother.

                 I certainly have never heard of referance to more than one wedge for a plane



                ---In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <david.whitby@...> wrote:

                The 2 planes are both Moulding thumb planes made from box wood. They have deep hollows running along the sole ..not visible in the photo.
                 
                The top one is 135mm long. The body is 32mm wide at the throat, and about 24mm wide at both the toe and heel. The book describes it as having double front and single rear wedges. The plane in the photo is facing to the left (the knob-looking end is the back). The blade angle looks steep, about 65 degrees.
                 
                The bottom one is 142mm long and 24mm wide.
                 
                Hope this helps,
                Ed
                 
              • Hall, Hayward
                Since my copy of Before the Mast has come in, I’ve now read the text on those and they were found in association with archery/projectile supplies and were
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 23, 2013
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                  Since my copy of Before the Mast has come in, I’ve now read the text on those and they were found in association with archery/projectile supplies and were conjecturally used to round shafts.  Whether of arrows or something larger they didn’t say or I don’t recall.  I would agree “thumb plane” isn’t really a proper name.

                   

                  Its rather disappointing that they list some 22 planes but only show  illustrations of a fraction of them.  I realize the amount of material is quite large, but I wish they had in many cases shown more artifacts.  Breaking the book(s) in to several books, each dedicated to a particular artifact type in detail like some of the BAS publications on York would have been much better.

                   

                  I am pretty amazed how the range of planes illustrated are nearly identical to 19th century examples.  It’s quite clear that once the form was established, it didn’t really change.

                   

                  I think the extra wedges were there in the front to tighten up a worn mouth.

                   

                  Guillaume

                   

                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kaisaerpren@...
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:06 PM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] RE: Mary Rose Planes

                   




                  32mmm wide throught is not thumb plane size it is more like smooth plane size. one is a forksrtaff and the other a smoother.

                   I certainly have never heard of referance to more than one wedge for a plane



                  ---In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, <david.whitby@...> wrote:

                  The 2 planes are both Moulding thumb planes made from box wood. They have deep hollows running along the sole ..not visible in the photo.

                   

                  The top one is 135mm long. The body is 32mm wide at the throat, and about 24mm wide at both the toe and heel. The book describes it as having double front and single rear wedges. The plane in the photo is facing to the left (the knob-looking end is the back). The blade angle looks steep, about 65 degrees.

                   

                  The bottom one is 142mm long and 24mm wide.

                   

                  Hope this helps,

                  Ed

                   




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