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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period-themed Close Stool

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  • Julian Wilson
    Good my Lord Brusi,  thank you for your prompt reply. Certainly a chair with a box seat will do the job, large enough to contain some kind of modern
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 8, 2013
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      Good my Lord Brusi,
       thank you for your prompt reply. Certainly a chair with a box seat will do the job, large enough to contain some kind of modern porta-potti under a hinged lid. Having just recently visited the refurnished National Trust Property  of Amesbury Manor, Wiltshire, and seen the 17th C. Close Stool set in the 17th C.-themed "withdrawing Room" on the first floor, I was thinking with tunnel vision - more about a suitably decorated chest, rather than a chair with a box seat.   I'll re-designate an Internet Search for "gothic-themed box-seat chairs" and see what that brings up as inspirational images. For your interest, I have attached a picture of a similar replica close stool to that now on show at Amesbury Manor.
      I appreciate the historically-correct "Master" Title, for that I think I may claim outside the SCA in my late-15th C persona; but I steer clear of that  form of Address within the SCA, for obvious reasons. I have not aspired so high; and doubt if I ever shall, - because my residential status in the Island of Jersey and the considerable costs of travelling to Europe or to the UK Mainland  - means that my Lady and I can only attend a few SCA events annually in Drachenwald, - and I simply don't get the chance to "teach my skills to students" - which as you know is a requirement for eligibility for consideration for the Order of The Laurel.
      My basic plan for the casing is a plywood box, with applied faux-framing, and a lifting lid with hidden hinges, retained by chains which will drop into recesses under the lid, so that when the lid is up, the Stool will have a seat-back for comfort. The inner seat will be covered with faux- glazed leatherette over padding [wipe clean surface in case of accidents, and warm on the posterior - or at least, warmer than timber might be]. I will probably include a drawer underneath the bottom panel, on which the working parts will stand, for TP and "Wetwipes".  All of the structure is already clear in my mind - it's just the exterior finish for which I'm seeking inspiration. For example, a Close Stool which used to be on display at Hampton Court Palace was covered with painted leather, retained by decorative nailing. And another well-known late-medieval-example  on exhibit at the Chateau de Langeais  on 2010, was covered with very-expensive red velvet [at the time of making, velvets came to the UK and Western Europe all the way from Florence]
      In Service to The Dream,
       Matthewe Baker.



      From: bsrlee <bsrlee2@...>
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, 8 April 2013, 11:11
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period-themed Close Stool

       
      Good Master Baker

      I have just been tasked with a similar quest following this latest Eastertide.

      So far I have found:

      http://housebarra.com/projects/boxchair/index.html

      I am looking at a faux paneled box, probably with a lid line some little distance down from the top surface so the Lady can have a suitable 'seat of ease' rather than uncertain hovering or the risk of splinters. Exact interior fittings have yet to be decided, either a self contained unit with flush and automatic seal, or the ubiquitous 5 or 10 gallon (20 or 40 litre) utility drum/bucket usually found discarded by food shops on the kerb and suitable positioning hardware. Probably two pairs of hinges in parrallel, one pair for an inner flap and one pair for the lid - strap hinges from Lee Valley can look the part and can easily have one leaf flipped if needed to make them fit better.

      regards
      Brusi of Orkney
      Rowany/Lochac

      On 08-Apr-13 7:31 PM, Julian Wilson wrote:
      Gentles All,
      has anyone found the need to create a period-themed Close Stool?
      At some of the camps we attend, it's a long way to the Toilet Block, especially at "oh, my God dark-thirty" when either it's cold and windy, or the rain/sleet/snow is falling. My Lady complains, and I am all for domestic peace, quiet, and comfort - even in a period camp.
      I don't see any problems with countering any odour and disposing of the sewage - plastic bags part-filled with kitty-litter, fitting into a bucket will take care of that, - but I  would be interested in any gothic-themed designs for the containing box-style Stool. I do have a fully-equipped woodworking shop available to me, plus a lifetime's experience as a Master Carpenter - so it's not the 'nuts & bolts' techniques I'm seeking,  but exterior design and decoration ideas.
      I've spent a number of hours searching the Internet for inspirational-pictures of extant example of chests and boxes which could serve, if altered to have a lifting lid/top, - but with little positive search-result.
      So I'd be very interested to hear from anyone else who has already confronted this problem, and already built a Solution which doesn't look anachronistic in a period encampment.
      Transporting such an object will be no problem - our available transport cubeage will easily accommodate the extra bit of Furniture, even if it's not flat-packing.
      Matthewe Baker.





    • Vels inn Viggladi
      Not to be rude, but I don t really think there is a modern way to produce that kind of micromosaic. The V&A Summary speaks of cutting the polygons off as
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 8, 2013
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        Not to be rude, but I don't really think there is a "modern" way to produce that kind of micromosaic. The V&A Summary speaks of cutting the polygons off as slivers from a rod made up of differently cut pieces of wood, and the straight "lines" that fill in between are likewise made from laminations, like plywood, that are sliced off and trimmed. To build up the pattern, the slices are glued to a paper backing, then wrapped around the finished box. The box looks to be simply nailed together.
        The tools and techniques for this really haven't changed in six or seven centuries, and the last time they became widely popular was during the American Federalist period. Even if machine tools are used for milling and cutting, I can't think of a "modern" machine that would put the slices and slivers together into the mosaic pattern. For some parts of that, hand-cutting would likely be faster.


        Vels


        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        From: helen.schultz@...
        Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:53:33 -0400
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest

        

        Thank you, Margherita, for the links... I loved the first box... would love to try to build one, but know I just wouldn't have the patience to do it in the period manner <sigh>.  Such delicate and intricate fitting and then cutting... just boggles the mind.
         
        ~~ Katarina Helene
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:33 PM
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest

         

        Ormr,

        I ran across a few of these earlier this year while looking for something else.  I remember that the V&A had a few 8-sided boxes.

        There is one medieval wooden box in the V&A: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O369842/box-unknown/
        They also have a second wooden box from the early 17th century: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O301244/casket/

        IHTH,
        Margaret

         
        THL Margherita Battistina (Margaret Roe)

        Dean of the School of European Dance, Pennsic 42
        Chronicler and Web Minister, L'Academie Atlantienne de la Danse
        Deputy Chatelaine for the Shire of Spiaggia Levantina

        From: lord.ormr <simpson1999@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013 7:28 PM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest

         
        Looking for some reference or examples of a period octagon chest or box. I have found some architecture and painings or images of octagon but not a box or chest. Google and Bing are just ticking me off at this point.

        If anyone would have somewhere to go to look for tis, I would be eternaly grateful.

        Thanks,

        Ormr






      • karincorbin
        Not micromosaic. Mosaic requires placing the tiny bits one at a time. That is marquetry. Watch the video on this web page. You will see glimpses of old world
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 8, 2013
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          Not micromosaic. Mosaic requires placing the tiny bits one at a time. That is marquetry.

          Watch the video on this web page. You will see glimpses of old world combined with new. It is a fascinating place, just up the street from me. I have been on a very detailed tour of it and seen how they produce the marquetry. There is also a fun, online, interactive design tool on the website for creating marquetry bands.
          http://www.gurianinstruments.com/top-nav/about-us/

          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Vels inn Viggladi <velsthe1@...> wrote:
          >
          > Not to be rude, but I don't really think there is a "modern" way to produce that kind of micromosaic. The V&A Summary speaks of cutting the polygons off as slivers from a rod made up of differently cut pieces of wood, and the straight "lines" that fill in between are likewise made from laminations, like plywood, that are sliced off and trimmed. To build up the pattern, the slices are glued to a paper backing, then wrapped around the finished box. The box looks to be simply nailed together.
          > The tools and techniques for this really haven't changed in six or seven centuries, and the last time they became widely popular was during the American Federalist period. Even if machine tools are used for milling and cutting, I can't think of a "modern" machine that would put the slices and slivers together into the mosaic pattern. For some parts of that, hand-cutting would likely be faster.
          >
          >
          > Vels
          >
          > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          > From: helen.schultz@...
          > Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:53:33 -0400
          > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Thank you, Margherita, for the links... I loved the
          > first box... would love to try to build one, but know I just wouldn't have the
          > patience to do it in the period manner <sigh>. Such delicate
          > and intricate fitting and then cutting... just boggles the mind.
          >
          > ~~ Katarina Helene
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From:
          > Margaret Roe
          >
          > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:33
          > PM
          > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period
          > Chest
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Ormr,
          >
          >
          > I
          > ran across a few of these earlier this year while looking for something else.
          > I remember that the V&A had a few 8-sided boxes.
          >
          >
          > There
          > is one medieval wooden box in the V&A: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O369842/box-unknown/
          > They
          > also have a second wooden box from the early 17th century: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O301244/casket/
          > And
          > two metal boxes of that shape: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O110451/pyx-unknown/ and http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O103096/pyx-unknown/
          >
          >
          > IHTH,
          > Margaret
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > THL Margherita Battistina (Margaret Roe)
          >
          >
          > Dean of the School of European Dance, Pennsic 42
          > Chronicler and Web
          > Minister, L'Academie Atlantienne de la Danse
          > Deputy Chatelaine for the
          > Shire of Spiaggia Levantina
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > From: lord.ormr
          > <simpson1999@...>
          > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013
          > 7:28 PM
          > Subject:
          > [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Looking for some reference or examples of a period octagon chest or box.
          > I have found some architecture and painings or images of octagon but not a box
          > or chest. Google and Bing are just ticking me off at this point.
          >
          > If
          > anyone would have somewhere to go to look for tis, I would be eternaly
          > grateful.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Ormr
          >
        • karincorbin
          Getting the most of your built up block of sticks, watch this video. The Japanese have been making this intricate type of work for a very long time. No waste
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 8, 2013
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            Getting the most of your built up block of sticks, watch this video. The Japanese have been making this intricate type of work for a very long time. No waste method of cutting off the joined up sticks. See the video in the link.

            http://youtu.be/rxJbjpxGNbQ

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Vels inn Viggladi <velsthe1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Not to be rude, but I don't really think there is a "modern" way to produce that kind of micromosaic. The V&A Summary speaks of cutting the polygons off as slivers from a rod made up of differently cut pieces of wood, and the straight "lines" that fill in between are likewise made from laminations, like plywood, that are sliced off and trimmed. To build up the pattern, the slices are glued to a paper backing, then wrapped around the finished box. The box looks to be simply nailed together.
            > The tools and techniques for this really haven't changed in six or seven centuries, and the last time they became widely popular was during the American Federalist period. Even if machine tools are used for milling and cutting, I can't think of a "modern" machine that would put the slices and slivers together into the mosaic pattern. For some parts of that, hand-cutting would likely be faster.
            >
            >
            > Vels
            >
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > From: helen.schultz@...
            > Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:53:33 -0400
            > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Thank you, Margherita, for the links... I loved the
            > first box... would love to try to build one, but know I just wouldn't have the
            > patience to do it in the period manner <sigh>. Such delicate
            > and intricate fitting and then cutting... just boggles the mind.
            >
            > ~~ Katarina Helene
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From:
            > Margaret Roe
            >
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:33
            > PM
            > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period
            > Chest
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Ormr,
            >
            >
            > I
            > ran across a few of these earlier this year while looking for something else.
            > I remember that the V&A had a few 8-sided boxes.
            >
            >
            > There
            > is one medieval wooden box in the V&A: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O369842/box-unknown/
            > They
            > also have a second wooden box from the early 17th century: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O301244/casket/
            > And
            > two metal boxes of that shape: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O110451/pyx-unknown/ and http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O103096/pyx-unknown/
            >
            >
            > IHTH,
            > Margaret
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > THL Margherita Battistina (Margaret Roe)
            >
            >
            > Dean of the School of European Dance, Pennsic 42
            > Chronicler and Web
            > Minister, L'Academie Atlantienne de la Danse
            > Deputy Chatelaine for the
            > Shire of Spiaggia Levantina
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: lord.ormr
            > <simpson1999@...>
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013
            > 7:28 PM
            > Subject:
            > [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Looking for some reference or examples of a period octagon chest or box.
            > I have found some architecture and painings or images of octagon but not a box
            > or chest. Google and Bing are just ticking me off at this point.
            >
            > If
            > anyone would have somewhere to go to look for tis, I would be eternaly
            > grateful.
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Ormr
            >
          • Vels inn Viggladi
            ... Getting the most of your built up block of sticks, watch this video. The Japanese have been making this intricate type of work for a very long time. No
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 9, 2013
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              > From: karincorbin@...
              > Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 06:34:55 +0000
              > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Period Chest
              >
              >
              Getting the most of your built up block of sticks, watch this video. The Japanese have been making this intricate type of work for a very long time. No waste method of cutting off the joined up sticks. See the video in the link.
              >
              > http://youtu.be/rxJbjpxGNbQ
              >

              Interesting video and technique. That's not quite how this kind of piece was or could be produced, however.

              From the description on the V&A website:
              "The design on this fragmentary ten-sided casket consists of an interlacing geometric pattern based on eight-pointed stars. Green stars are set at the heart of an intricate mosaic of minute squares and rhomboids, of different-coloured woods and bone, both in its natural colour and stained green with copper compounds. In the places where the decoration is missing, we can see that it was stuck directly to the surface of the wood, and that each tiny element was individually attached in the manner of a mosaic.
              "This decorative technique was a characteristic of woodwork made in Islamic Spain during the Nasrid period (1238-1492). The technique is called taracea in Spanish, deriving from the Arabic word tarsi‘, meaning ‘incrustation’. "

              And from the 'More Information' tab on the same page:
              "The geometric decoration on this casket is only 1.5mm thick. Before being glued in place, it was composed on paper, traces of which are visible where losses have occurred.The design consists of at least seven pre-formed motifs, made using the sliced-bundle technique (see right). Tiny gaps are filled individually. [01/12/2012]"

              The geometric patterns applied to the surface of this box are quite a bit more intricate than what is being produced in the Japanese method that was referenced. And as said before, other than in stock-prep for the individual elements, there has been little change to how this kind of decoration can be produced since it's inception.

              This appears to be one of those cases where there are no "modern" short-cuts.



              Vels




            • gloerke
              Hi, I have an image of a small medieval octagon chest from Cologne, Germany at my blogpost http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl/2011/12/kolner-minnekastchen.html. It
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 9, 2013
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                Hi,

                I have an image of a small medieval octagon chest from Cologne, Germany at my blogpost http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl/2011/12/kolner-minnekastchen.html. It is made from ivory, but with current legislation you better make it from other material ;)

                Marijn

                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "lord.ormr" <simpson1999@...> wrote:
                >
                > Looking for some reference or examples of a period octagon chest or box. I have found some architecture and painings or images of octagon but not a box or chest. Google and Bing are just ticking me off at this point.
                >
                > If anyone would have somewhere to go to look for tis, I would be eternaly grateful.
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Ormr
                >
              • lord.ormr
                These are awesome. I am not sure I can do the first patterned one, as I would have no idea how to accomplish it. I am really intrigued by the etched/foiled
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 9, 2013
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                  These are awesome. I am not sure I can do the first patterned one, as I would have no idea how to accomplish it. I am really intrigued by the etched/foiled glass. The box construction would not be too difficult and I am going to play with the foil etching and see if that is something I can figure out.

                  I knew someone in this group would have some examples.

                  I did find some examples that were carved bone/ivory that I might try to do in carved wood. It (and other examples of other period boxes/chests/etc) was found on http://www.larsdatter.com/boxes-boneivory.htm.

                  It also had an example of an inlay box: http://www.insecula.com/oeuvre/O0008573.html

                  Some awesome items on this site.

                  I would still like some different ideas, so pleas post if you have some other resources.

                  Thanks everyone for thier input so far.

                  Ormr

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Margaret Roe <mlysett@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ormr,
                  >
                  > I ran across a few of these earlier this year while looking for something else.  I remember that the V&A had a few 8-sided boxes.
                  >
                  > There is one medieval wooden box in the V&A: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O369842/box-unknown/
                  > They also have a second wooden box from the early 17th century: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O301244/casket/
                  > And two metal boxes of that shape: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O110451/pyx-unknown/%c3%82%c2%a0and%c3%82%c2%a0http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O103096/pyx-unknown/
                  >
                  > IHTH,
                  > Margaret
                  >
                  >  
                  > THL Margherita Battistina (Margaret Roe)
                  >
                  >
                  > Dean of the School of European Dance, Pennsic 42
                  > Chronicler and Web Minister, L'Academie Atlantienne de la Danse
                  > Deputy Chatelaine for the Shire of Spiaggia Levantina
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: lord.ormr <simpson1999@...>
                  > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013 7:28 PM
                  > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  > Looking for some reference or examples of a period octagon chest or box. I have found some architecture and painings or images of octagon but not a box or chest. Google and Bing are just ticking me off at this point.
                  >
                  > If anyone would have somewhere to go to look for tis, I would be eternaly grateful.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Ormr
                  >
                • lord.ormr
                  Yeah, the Ivory octagon box is absoluetely beautiful. It was also linked from the other site I just posted, and had a few other angle shots to get the whole
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 9, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yeah, the Ivory octagon box is absoluetely beautiful. It was also linked from the other site I just posted, and had a few other angle shots to get the whole picture.

                    Thank you for posting your pictures. these boxes are giving me more and more ideas for my wood carving as well. guess I will need to add more things to my project list.

                    Ormr

                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "gloerke" <gloerke@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > I have an image of a small medieval octagon chest from Cologne, Germany at my blogpost http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl/2011/12/kolner-minnekastchen.html. It is made from ivory, but with current legislation you better make it from other material ;)
                    >
                    > Marijn
                    >
                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "lord.ormr" <simpson1999@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Looking for some reference or examples of a period octagon chest or box. I have found some architecture and painings or images of octagon but not a box or chest. Google and Bing are just ticking me off at this point.
                    > >
                    > > If anyone would have somewhere to go to look for tis, I would be eternaly grateful.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks,
                    > >
                    > > Ormr
                    > >
                    >
                  • Hall, Hayward
                    http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl/2011/12/kolner-minnekastchen.html I find it fascinating the lack of “communication” if you will between the carved bone
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 12, 2013
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                      http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl/2011/12/kolner-minnekastchen.html

                       

                      I find it fascinating the lack of “communication” if you will between the carved bone panels and the bronze strapping.  I see this rather frequently.  Was the strapping added later?  Was there simply a division of labor so much so that there was little to no planning?  Or, was the mindset just different in that it didn’t matter if some of the carving got covered up because it wasn’t as precious as it would be today?

                       

                      Guillaume

                       

                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Roe
                      Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:34 AM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest

                       




                      Ormr,

                       

                      I ran across a few of these earlier this year while looking for something else.  I remember that the V&A had a few 8-sided boxes.

                       

                      There is one medieval wooden box in the V&A: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O369842/box-unknown/

                      They also have a second wooden box from the early 17th century: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O301244/casket/

                       

                      IHTH,

                      Margaret

                       

                       

                      THL Margherita Battistina (Margaret Roe)

                      Dean of the School of European Dance, Pennsic 42
                      Chronicler and Web Minister, L'Academie Atlantienne de la Danse
                      Deputy Chatelaine for the Shire of Spiaggia Levantina


                      From: lord.ormr <simpson1999@...>
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013 7:28 PM
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest

                       

                       

                      Looking for some reference or examples of a period octagon chest or box. I have found some architecture and painings or images of octagon but not a box or chest. Google and Bing are just ticking me off at this point.

                      If anyone would have somewhere to go to look for tis, I would be eternaly grateful.

                      Thanks,

                      Ormr

                       




                    • Justin Crouch
                      Hi, I m Leonardus from the Calontir area (Technically live on the Mississippi on the Midrealm side, but started in Calontir at college), and I joined a week or
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 12, 2013
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                        Hi, I'm Leonardus from the Calontir area (Technically live on the
                        Mississippi on the Midrealm side, but started in Calontir at college),
                        and I joined a week or so ago, and have been lurking. Figured I'd
                        introduce myself prior to joining the conversation.

                        @Guillaume

                        Lovely pictures on that link you posted. And I do see what you mean
                        about the lack of flow between the carvings and the braces on some of
                        the pieces. Looking at the first box, I was going to say it looked to
                        be added on later, probably the box was falling apart and they decided
                        to throw the braces on. However, looking at some of the lower ones, it
                        seems some of them were planned around where the braces would be. The
                        small casket with the devices on it, doesn't have that though as the
                        braces run right through the shield.

                        Having worked in theatre, and similar things have happened between
                        departments, I want to say (in my mundane way of thinking) it's a mix
                        of all three. I do know some pieces in theatre get communicated well
                        (when talking props/furniture/set building) and it works with each
                        other, this is generally the case when the same person does it all.
                        But if one person did the carving, and then sent it off to someone
                        else to do the bracings, it's likely they didn't take into account the
                        location of where the braces would need to be and over-decorated the
                        piece. And when it came to the point of the 'functional' aspect, it
                        was like..."well we don't WANT to cover it up, but we don't have much
                        choice." That sentiment I've seen often in my theatre background.

                        BUTTT that's just my two cents, so I may be wrong entirely. But if I
                        had to guess...I'd say a mix of added later, poor communication
                        between multiple builders and then some that work beautifully with
                        each other.

                        LeO

                        On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Hall, Hayward <hallh@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > http://thomasguild.blogspot.nl/2011/12/kolner-minnekastchen.html
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I find it fascinating the lack of “communication” if you will between the
                        > carved bone panels and the bronze strapping. I see this rather frequently.
                        > Was the strapping added later? Was there simply a division of labor so much
                        > so that there was little to no planning? Or, was the mindset just different
                        > in that it didn’t matter if some of the carving got covered up because it
                        > wasn’t as precious as it would be today?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Guillaume
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Roe
                        > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:34 AM
                        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Ormr,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I ran across a few of these earlier this year while looking for something
                        > else. I remember that the V&A had a few 8-sided boxes.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > There is one medieval wooden box in the V&A:
                        > http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O369842/box-unknown/
                        >
                        > They also have a second wooden box from the early 17th century:
                        > http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O301244/casket/
                        >
                        > And two metal boxes of that shape:
                        > http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O110451/pyx-unknown/ and
                        > http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O103096/pyx-unknown/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > IHTH,
                        >
                        > Margaret
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > THL Margherita Battistina (Margaret Roe)
                        >
                        > Dean of the School of European Dance, Pennsic 42
                        > Chronicler and Web Minister, L'Academie Atlantienne de la Danse
                        > Deputy Chatelaine for the Shire of Spiaggia Levantina
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        >
                        > From: lord.ormr <simpson1999@...>
                        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013 7:28 PM
                        > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Period Chest
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Looking for some reference or examples of a period octagon chest or box. I
                        > have found some architecture and painings or images of octagon but not a box
                        > or chest. Google and Bing are just ticking me off at this point.
                        >
                        > If anyone would have somewhere to go to look for tis, I would be eternaly
                        > grateful.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Ormr
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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