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Re: [MedievalSawdust] That Bede Chair I mentioned

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  • Jim Looper
    That looks GREAT! Lucien ... Morning All, I just posted some pictures to the yahoo group page related to the repro/inspired version of The Chair of the
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 10 7:24 AM

      That looks GREAT!

      Lucien

      ...we can burn that river when we cross a bridge over a bush with two birds in glass houses.


      Morning All,

      I just posted some pictures to the yahoo group page related to the repro/inspired version of The Chair of the Venerable Bede as was mentioned the other week. I kicked a few of my notes together on LiveJournal. http://valr.livejournal.com/96942.html and http://valr.livejournal.com/97086.html

      I'd welcome any thoughts or inquiries.

      Make good sawdust.


      Vels



    • gloerke
      When I look at your reconstruction drawings, I automatically think of 13th-14th century choir stalls which can be found some German cloisters (for instance
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 10 12:56 PM
        When I look at your reconstruction drawings, I automatically think of 13th-14th century choir stalls which can be found some German cloisters (for instance kloster Wienhausen). The ones with high backs and sides are usually reserved for the abbot/abbess, the low ones for the normal monk/nuns.
        If I look at the original bede chair, my first impression is that it has been one chair of a normal choir stall (and not in a very good state). I don not think there has been a canopy, but that some parts gone missing on both sides during the ages.

        Marijn

        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Vels inn Viggladi <velsthe1@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Morning All,
        >
        > I just posted some pictures to the yahoo group page related to the repro/inspired version of The Chair of the Venerable Bede as was mentioned the other week. I kicked a few of my notes together on LiveJournal. http://valr.livejournal.com/96942.html and http://valr.livejournal.com/97086.html
        >
        > I'd welcome any thoughts or inquiries.
        >
        > Make good sawdust.
        >
        >
        > Vels
        >
      • AlbionWood
        Yes, I have read that the so-called Bede Chair is actually a choir-stall of much later date than Bede. If anyone is interested I can try to locate the
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 14 7:59 PM
          Yes, I have read that the so-called Bede Chair is actually a choir-stall
          of much later date than Bede. If anyone is interested I can try to
          locate the reference - it will take a little digging.

          This is quite a common thing, especially in England, for an object to
          bear the name of someone with whom it had no real association.

          Cheers,
          Tim


          On 7/10/2012 12:56 PM, gloerke wrote:
          > When I look at your reconstruction drawings, I automatically think of 13th-14th century choir stalls which can be found some German cloisters (for instance kloster Wienhausen). The ones with high backs and sides are usually reserved for the abbot/abbess, the low ones for the normal monk/nuns.
          > If I look at the original bede chair, my first impression is that it has been one chair of a normal choir stall (and not in a very good state). I don not think there has been a canopy, but that some parts gone missing on both sides during the ages.
          >
          > Marijn
          >
          > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Vels inn Viggladi <velsthe1@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> Morning All,
          >>
          >> I just posted some pictures to the yahoo group page related to the repro/inspired version of The Chair of the Venerable Bede as was mentioned the other week. I kicked a few of my notes together on LiveJournal. http://valr.livejournal.com/96942.html and http://valr.livejournal.com/97086.html
          >>
          >> I'd welcome any thoughts or inquiries.
          >>
          >> Make good sawdust.
          >>
          >>
          >> Vels
        • Vels inn Viggladi
          That similarity to a 13th century Choir Stall was part of the debate as to it s authenticity as actually being Bede s Chair rather than a 14th century fraud.
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 15 9:14 AM

            That similarity to a 13th century Choir Stall was part of the debate as to it's authenticity as actually being Bede's Chair rather than a 14th century fraud. I'll be digging out the dendrochronology report for my formal write-up on the piece, but, the wood itself is dated for felling to the mid-600's. There have been counter-claims suggesting that it still was a 14th century fraud using old wood. I find a claim that suggests someone had the fortuitous sense to use parts from an old piece of furniture that happened to be from exactly the right half-century for it to have been in use during Bede's lifetime as highly improbable.
            While trade was exceptionally limited for such items, we do have corollaries in the design elements and general appearance in Constantinople and pictorial evidence from religious icons  and manuscript illuminations during the appropriate period (6th-8th Centuries). These images typically focus on a Saint who was known for their wisdom or literacy (ie Gospel Writers at work).
            Those same pictorial references show canopies in some instances. In the photograph of the original piece there is a concave arc in the topmost fifth of the "arm" that ends in dead space just a few inches from the top of the back frame. More than a little ingenuity is required when trying to imagine what this looked like before all the damage was sustained. That little bit of arc, with the clean cut end at the top, suggests to me it was intended to support another member of wood. All combined, I decided to include the canopy frame above the chair in the rendering.

            Entertaining (to me) sidenote: Many of the styles, motives, and forms popular and common in 12th-15th century Western Europe are exact copies and transplants of styles found in the "Byzantine" Roman Empire several centuries earlier. We have a handful of contemporaneous items that are identified as gifts or rarities in the West that were quite common from Sicily East, which then "suddenly appear" as common in the High to Late Middle Ages.


            Vels

            > From: albionwood@...
            >
            > Yes, I have read that the so-called Bede Chair is actually a choir-stall
            > of much later date than Bede. If anyone is interested I can try to
            > locate the reference - it will take a little digging.
            >
            > This is quite a common thing, especially in England, for an object to
            > bear the name of someone with whom it had no real association.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Tim
            >
            >
            > On 7/10/2012 12:56 PM, gloerke wrote:
            > > When I look at your reconstruction drawings, I automatically think of 13th-14th century choir stalls which can be found some German cloisters (for instance kloster Wienhausen). The ones with high backs and sides are usually reserved for the abbot/abbess, the low ones for the normal monk/nuns.
            > > If I look at the original bede chair, my first impression is that it has been one chair of a normal choir stall (and not in a very good state). I don not think there has been a canopy, but that some parts gone missing on both sides during the ages.
            > >
            > > Marijn
          • frode_kettilsson
            Greetings! Well, it s taken a couple more weeks, but I finished the dulcimer! I ve uploaded a PDF here
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 20 11:07 AM
              Greetings!
              Well, it's taken a couple more weeks, but I finished the dulcimer!
              I've uploaded a PDF here  (Yahoo only allows me a 5mb file :/), as it seems the easiest way to run through the process, pictorially.
              Enjoy!  I'll answer any questions I can!
              Frode

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <sancoeur@...> wrote:
              >
              ...Frode, I'm looking forward to seeing how the dulcimer comes out! (you "will" post pictures of it, right? Huh? Huh?) Because of your email, I went on a "follow the links" hunt, and discovered a whole range of instruments that I never knew existed...
              >

            • Wolf
              Nicely done! What wood did you settle on (I m lousy at identifying wood, once you get past it s wood of some kind! )? How does it sound? In picture #4, I
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 20 3:25 PM
                Nicely done! What wood did you settle on (I'm lousy at identifying wood, once you get past "it's wood of some kind!")? How does it sound?

                In picture #4, I thought you were getting kind of cutesy with the "lips", it wasn't until a few more pictures that I realized it was a shave! Nice set-up you've got there. :-D

                Wolf

                --- On Fri, 7/20/12, frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...> wrote:

                From: frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...>
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: What's new?
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 11:07 AM

                 

                Greetings!
                Well, it's taken a couple more weeks, but I finished the dulcimer!
                I've uploaded a PDF here  (Yahoo only allows me a 5mb file :/), as it seems the easiest way to run through the process, pictorially.
                Enjoy!  I'll answer any questions I can!
                Frode

                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <sancoeur@...> wrote:
                >
                ...Frode, I'm looking forward to seeing how the dulcimer comes out! (you "will" post pictures of it, right? Huh? Huh?) Because of your email, I went on a "follow the links" hunt, and discovered a whole range of instruments that I never knew existed...
                >

              • Wolf
                Nicely done! What wood did you settle on (I m lousy at identifying wood, once you get past it s wood of some kind! )? How does it sound? In picture #4, I
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 20 3:26 PM
                  Nicely done! What wood did you settle on (I'm lousy at identifying wood, once you get past "it's wood of some kind!")? How does it sound?

                  In picture #4, I thought you were getting kind of cutesy with the "lips", it wasn't until a few more pictures that I realized it was a shave! Nice set-up you've got there. :-D

                  Wolf

                  --- On Fri, 7/20/12, frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...> wrote:

                  From: frode_kettilsson <anthonyspangler@...>
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: What's new?
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 11:07 AM

                   

                  Greetings!
                  Well, it's taken a couple more weeks, but I finished the dulcimer!
                  I've uploaded a PDF here  (Yahoo only allows me a 5mb file :/), as it seems the easiest way to run through the process, pictorially.
                  Enjoy!  I'll answer any questions I can!
                  Frode

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <sancoeur@...> wrote:
                  >
                  ...Frode, I'm looking forward to seeing how the dulcimer comes out! (you "will" post pictures of it, right? Huh? Huh?) Because of your email, I went on a "follow the links" hunt, and discovered a whole range of instruments that I never knew existed...
                  >

                • frode_kettilsson
                  Thank you, Wolf! The wood is ash on the body, maple on the peg box and fret board, and apple for the curved end piece, nut, and bridge. Yeah, I like my shaves,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 21 12:10 PM
                    Thank you, Wolf!
                    The wood is ash on the body, maple on the peg box and fret board, and apple for the curved end piece, nut, and bridge.
                    Yeah, I like my shaves, heheh.  I am continually delighted to discover just how much you can actually do with just a saw, draw knife, and shaves.  And if I feel like getting my Popeye on, forget the saw and go with the hand axe!
                    If you go here  there's a sound check, no talent, just a check for tone and volume.  You may have to turn your volume up a bit, as it's just a camcorder mic, and outside at that.  I can't claim to be unhappy with the sound (insert sound of snapping suspenders).  Here 's a short walk around clip, too, which sometimes helps get a better sense of the thing in question.
                    A scheitholz build is going to make a lot more sense, now!
                    Thanks again,
                    Frode
                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <sancoeur@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Nicely done! What wood did you settle on (I'm lousy at identifying wood, once you get past "it's wood of some kind!")? How does it sound?
                    >
                    > In picture #4, I thought you were getting kind of cutesy with the "lips", it wasn't until a few more pictures that I realized it was a shave! Nice set-up you've got there. :-D
                    >
                    > Wolf
                    >

                  • John LaTorre
                    ... Well done! I guess I should post something here to encourage other musical instrument makers to show their stuff. Here s a link to some pictures of a
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 21 7:46 PM
                      Frode wrote:
                      > Greetings!
                      > Well, it's taken a couple more weeks, but I finished the dulcimer!
                      >
                      Well done!

                      I guess I should post something here to encourage other musical
                      instrument makers to show their stuff. Here's a link to some pictures of
                      a mandore (the predecessor to the modern mandolin) that I made this spring:

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/photos/album/1330818581/pic/list

                      I've also completed a "lutar" with the general body shape and
                      appointments of a lute, but using the stringing, fretboard and bracing
                      of a classical guitar. (I tell people that "It's a guitar, but its
                      persona is a lute.") I don't have any pictures of it yet, but will post
                      some when I do.

                      And, yes, I will be bringing both instruments to the Great Western War
                      for anybody to look at or play with.

                      Johann von Drachenfels
                    • Sir David Vavreck
                      Beautiful mandore! Did you use commercial plans, or...?   ________________________________ From: John LaTorre To:
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 21 9:39 PM
                        Beautiful mandore!

                        Did you use commercial plans, or...?
                         


                        From: John LaTorre <jlatorre@...>
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 9:46 PM
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: What's new?

                         
                        Frode wrote:
                        > Greetings!
                        > Well, it's taken a couple more weeks, but I finished the dulcimer!
                        >
                        Well done!

                        I guess I should post something here to encourage other musical
                        instrument makers to show their stuff. Here's a link to some pictures of
                        a mandore (the predecessor to the modern mandolin) that I made this spring:

                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/photos/album/1330818581/pic/list

                        I've also completed a "lutar" with the general body shape and
                        appointments of a lute, but using the stringing, fretboard and bracing
                        of a classical guitar. (I tell people that "It's a guitar, but its
                        persona is a lute.") I don't have any pictures of it yet, but will post
                        some when I do.

                        And, yes, I will be bringing both instruments to the Great Western War
                        for anybody to look at or play with.

                        Johann von Drachenfels


                      • frode_kettilsson
                        Very nice, Johann, thanks for posting those! Frode
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 22 11:45 AM
                          Very nice, Johann, thanks for posting those!
                          Frode

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, John LaTorre <jlatorre@...> wrote:
                          >
                          ...I guess I should post something here to encourage other musical
                          > instrument makers to show their stuff. Here's a link to some pictures of
                          > a mandore (the predecessor to the modern mandolin) that I made this spring:
                          >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/photos/album/1330818581/pic/list
                          >
                          > I've also completed a "lutar" with the general body shape and
                          > appointments of a lute, but using the stringing, fretboard and bracing
                          > of a classical guitar. (I tell people that "It's a guitar, but its
                          > persona is a lute.") I don't have any pictures of it yet, but will post
                          > some when I do.
                          >
                          > And, yes, I will be bringing both instruments to the Great Western War
                          > for anybody to look at or play with.
                          >
                          > Johann von Drachenfels
                          >
                        • K
                          Hi; new member here. in photo #22 you have a kit or shoe fiddle next to your dulcymer. did you make it? K
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 15, 2012
                            Hi; new member here. in photo #22 you have a kit or shoe fiddle next to your dulcymer. did you make it?
                            K
                          • frode_kettilsson
                            Hi K, Yes, actually, it was the first instrument I tried making (not counting an ill fated gourd fiddle). Basswood body and maple sound board and finger
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 16, 2012
                              Hi K,
                              Yes, actually, it was the first instrument I tried making (not counting an ill fated gourd fiddle). Basswood body and maple sound board and finger board, made before I learned you can't use those woods in that way, heheh.
                              Frode

                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "K" <kaisaerpren@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi; new member here. in photo #22 you have a kit or shoe fiddle next to your dulcymer. did you make it?
                              > K
                              >
                            • Karl Newman
                              well, at least it looks good ;) where did you get plans/dimensions? for it? or did you just wing it? on the dulcymer... if you hollow out the beam that the
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 16, 2012
                                well, at least it looks good ;)
                                where did you get plans/dimensions? for it? or did you just wing it?
                                on the dulcymer... if you hollow out the beam that the finger board is on top of, so that it is a u channel w walls about 3/16" thick, it will substantially increase the volume of sound it produces. a solid beam dampens the string vibrations before they get to the soundboard.
                                K

                              • frode_kettilsson
                                Heheh, actually, it sounds surprisingly good (I was pleasantly surprised). I didn t learn till later that maple isn t considered a proper/traditional sound
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 18, 2012
                                  Heheh, actually, it sounds surprisingly good (I was pleasantly surprised).  I didn't learn till later that maple isn't considered a proper/traditional sound board material, but, hey, it works, so...
                                  I first saw the design on Paul Butlers Rutgers web site , and promptly failed to  follow his dimensions, so mine is a little oversized.  I recommend his site to anyone interested in this sort of thing!
                                  I've heard that about the fret board on a dulcimer, but at the time, I didn't have the large Forstner bit I thought I'd need to do the hollowing, and being impatient (and assured that the arch method would also be better than solid wood), I went ahead and arched.  I'm going to hollow the next one out, though.  Ought to lighten things up noticeably, too.
                                  Thanks,
                                  Frode


                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Karl Newman <kaisaerpren@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > well, at least it looks good ;)
                                  > where did you get plans/dimensions? for it? or did you just wing it?
                                  > on the dulcymer... if you hollow out the beam that the finger board is on
                                  > top of, so that it is a u channel w walls about 3/16" thick, it will
                                  > substantially increase the volume of sound it produces. a solid beam
                                  > dampens the string vibrations before they get to the soundboard.
                                  > K
                                  >
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