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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Time frame of Before the Mast: 1300 - 1700

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  • D. Young
    Some thougths on the timeframe of Before the Mast. It captures early to mid 16th century but in truth it is actually still very prescient for a good 250 years
    Message 1 of 41 , Jan 9, 2012
      Some thougths on the timeframe of Before the Mast.  It captures early to mid 16th century but in truth it is actually still very prescient for a good 250 years prior and after for most things in terms of details. 

      Obviously not shoes or clothes and such,  but basic items and construction details are very similar from about 1300 to 1700.    Lamps, combs, woodenware, tools, etc   Not much changed.   And certainly its a great for those construction details that can likely be applied to earlier and later things.  

      I use it for a lot of 17th century/early 18th century reference and for 14th and 15th century reference as well.    And obviously for 16th.

      Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

           Custom Commissions Welcome....!

      (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)

      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      From: mamluk@...
      Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 14:42:55 -0800
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Which book for a late-period turner?


      If you can lay hands on a copy of Before the Mast affordably, I would go ahead and buy it.  I believe it is out of print.  I have it, and its a fantastic book; I highly recommend it.  That being said, I have not seen the Robin Wood book, and it may be more in line with your interests.  My persona is 1520's/1530's, and I have been using Before the Mast to construct the everyday objects which would have been carried on my persona's person, or used at an event/in camp. 
      Je Reste,
      En Service au Reve,
      Brad Moore 

      "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."
      - J.R.R. Tolkien


    • Julian Wilson
      Ulfhedinn, [and anyone else interested] The Lake Nemi ships  -[ rumoured for centuries but dismissed as local folk-lore by scholars, until the invention of 
      Message 41 of 41 , Jan 13, 2012
        Ulfhedinn, [and anyone else interested]
        The Lake Nemi ships  -[ rumoured for centuries but dismissed as local folk-lore by scholars, until the invention of  diving apparatus allowed an underwater investigation to be made, - and recovered through a huge, State-sponsored project enthusiastically supported and funded by Mussolini and his Fascist Party; (the project involved a huge, State-run, civil-engineering project to partially drain the lake, and expose the two wrecks) ]  -  were destroyed by fire in World War II on the night of May 31, 1944.   There are conflicting views on which side - Nazi or Allied forces -  was responsible for the destruction, though the Nazis must be the prime suspects since Marshal Kesselring had orders from the highest level ( a "Fuhrerbefehl") to destroy as much Italian cultural infrastructure as possible as his forces retreated northwestwards - to "punish the Italians for their treachery" in concluding a separate Peace with the Allies.    At that time, Allied forces were pursuing the retreating German army northward through the Alban Hills toward Rome. On May 28, a German artillery post was established within 400 feet (120 m) of the museum.    An official report filed in Rome later that year described the tragedy as a willful act on the part of the German soldiers. A German editorial issued by Dr. Goebbel's Propaganda Ministry blamed the destruction on American artillery fire. Some consideration must be given to this accusation; the Nazis didn't lie all the time - ( refer to the history of the massacre of the near 16,000-strong Polish Officer Corps and intelligensia in the Katyn Forest and at other sites). The true story of what happened that night will probably never be known. 
        Only the bronzes, a few charred timbers and some material stored in Rome survived the fire. Due to the destruction, research effectively stopped until the 1980s.
        Project Diana - (now apparently suspended)
        Photographs, the drawings made for the Italian Navy survey during the original recovery operation,  and those made by the archaeologist G. Gatti survived in the Italian State Archives, allowing reconstructions to be made of the two ships.
        The "Association Dianae Lacus" (Lake of Diana) was founded in 1995 to preserve the cultural and history of the Nemi Lake area, and the Association initiated the very ambitious  "Project Diana", which involves constructing a full size replica of the Roman prima nave (first ship) of Lake Nemi. As there is no record of the shape and size of the buildings and temples built on the deck, the Association proposed that the replica would be constructed to deck level only, and when completed would be moored on the lake in front of the museum.
        On July 18, 1998, the town council of Nemi voted to fund the construction of the forward section, and work commenced in the Torre del Greco shipyards. This section was completed in 2001, with the section transported to the Nemi museum where the rest of the vessel would be constructed. The estimated final cost of the reconstruction is 7.2 million Euros (US$10.7 million).   On November 15, 2003, Assimpresa, the second largest confederation of employers and businesses in Italy, announced it would sponsor the project by supplying all the timber required. No press releases have been made since 2004 and the Dianae Lacus website has closed.

        However, to settle the question of the use of early cranks in Roman Times, - I'm sure that Italian State archives on the Nemi wrecks would be able to answer this speculation - if one did an online search for the contact details of the relevant Italian officials in their Archives Service.

        Matthewe Baker,
         from "old" Jersey

        From: "conradh@..." <conradh@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, 13 January 2012, 4:01
        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Treadle lathes and treadle spinning wheels.

        > Ulfhedinn, I think you may have some artificial limitations restricting
        > your research.

        Vels, thank you for the information! When I said that, I was basically
        following Lynn White, a good historian of technology but I know there have
        been decades of archaeology and scholarship since his day. What you said
        makes sense of an anomaly--there was a Roman imperial pleasure barge, sunk
        I believe on one of the central Italian lakes, where some of the
        researchers reconstructed it with cranks driving the bilge pumps. Many
        disagreed with that interpretation, basically because cranks were thought
        to be anachronistic for that time. Perhaps they weren't at all. Scholars
        sometimes give excessive weight to the written word--perhaps Vitruvius
        failed to mention cranks, so writers thought they were unknown to Roman

        Thanks again!


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