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turning small thin items

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  • Jim Hart
    I have been playing around with my lathe and I ve made this.... http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r295/ConalOhAirt/001.jpg It is loosely based off the one
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 20, 2011
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      I have been playing around with my lathe and I've made this....


      It is loosely based off the one shown in the Museum of London's book The Medieval Household.


      I had a little trouble with chatter turning something with that small of a diameter.
      Anyone have advice? If chatter is the correct term.... The piece if flexing under the pressure
      of the tool unless I put so little pressure I am not really making any headway...



      I have decided that I can't really turn two out of one longer piece of wood at the same
      time without some type of support.... Anyone have a favorite homemade jig?

      --
      Jim Hart
        Conal OhAirt

      Aude Aliquid Digmun - dare something worthy
    • Megan Shogren
      I m still a newbie turner, but I gravitate toward tiny stuff like this.  That flex is called spindle whip, and it s somewhat of a given when the ratio of
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 20, 2011
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        I'm still a newbie turner, but I gravitate toward tiny stuff like this.  That flex is called spindle whip, and it's somewhat of a given when the ratio of length to diameter gets to a certain point.  I found a home-made steady-rest; I'm sure there are other designs.


        Alternately, you'd probably be fine if you did one at a time instead of 2.  I've taken pen blanks (5-7" long) down to <1/4" diameter (making lace bobbins) without seeing any whip.  Other things that you probably already thought about: really sharp tools, really gentle hand, as light as you can go on tailstock pressure without slipping.  I like my steb center (store brand, not Sorby) in the headstock. Oddly, I find the full-size turning tools easier to use than the mini "pen-turning" tools, the bigger ones are easier to anchor to my body to keep them steady.


        -Kat Ferneley


        From: Jim Hart <conalohairt@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 9:09 AM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] turning small thin items

         
        I have been playing around with my lathe and I've made this....

        http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r295/ConalOhAirt/001.jpg

        It is loosely based off the one shown in the Museum of London's book The Medieval Household.


        I had a little trouble with chatter turning something with that small of a diameter.
        Anyone have advice? If chatter is the correct term.... The piece if flexing under the pressure
        of the tool unless I put so little pressure I am not really making any headway...



        I have decided that I can't really turn two out of one longer piece of wood at the same
        time without some type of support.... Anyone have a favorite homemade jig?

        --
        Jim Hart
          Conal OhAirt

        Aude Aliquid Digmun - dare something worthy


      • Jim Hart
        Ah... knowing the correct term will be useful in searching for solutions..... Thanks.... Nice jig.... but probably too big for the kind of items I m thinking
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 20, 2011
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          Ah... knowing the correct term will be useful in searching for solutions..... Thanks.... Nice jig.... but probably too
          big for the kind of items I'm thinking about... It would be difficult to work around it.

          On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Megan Shogren <brockenspectre@...> wrote:
           

          I'm still a newbie turner, but I gravitate toward tiny stuff like this.  That flex is called spindle whip, and it's somewhat of a given when the ratio of length to diameter gets to a certain point.  I found a home-made steady-rest; I'm sure there are other designs.


          Alternately, you'd probably be fine if you did one at a time instead of 2.  I've taken pen blanks (5-7" long) down to <1/4" diameter (making lace bobbins) without seeing any whip.  Other things that you probably already thought about: really sharp tools, really gentle hand, as light as you can go on tailstock pressure without slipping.  I like my steb center (store brand, not Sorby) in the headstock. Oddly, I find the full-size turning tools easier to use than the mini "pen-turning" tools, the bigger ones are easier to anchor to my body to keep them steady.


          -Kat Ferneley


          From: Jim Hart <conalohairt@...>
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 9:09 AM
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] turning small thin items

           
          I have been playing around with my lathe and I've made this....


          It is loosely based off the one shown in the Museum of London's book The Medieval Household.


          I had a little trouble with chatter turning something with that small of a diameter.
          Anyone have advice? If chatter is the correct term.... The piece if flexing under the pressure
          of the tool unless I put so little pressure I am not really making any headway...



          I have decided that I can't really turn two out of one longer piece of wood at the same
          time without some type of support.... Anyone have a favorite homemade jig?

          --
          Jim Hart
            Conal OhAirt

          Aude Aliquid Digmun - dare something worthy





          --
          Jim Hart
            Conal OhAirt

          Aude Aliquid Digmun - dare something worthy
        • Sean Powell
          In machining steel we occasionally use steady-rests that only have 2 wheels. They are attached to the tool support and travel just ahead of the cutting tool on
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 20, 2011
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            In machining steel we occasionally use steady-rests that only have 2 wheels. They are attached to the tool support and travel just ahead of the cutting tool on the base diameter so that the 3rd contact point is the cutter itself. We also take much larger bites then you might expect but with a slow feed so that the cutting tool is pushing more axial then radial. It's the radial load that causes the whip effect.

            I would think that if you were making bobbins consistently, then after dressing the OD you could put on 2 long cylinders on the backside that touched the largest diameter and it would give you support during most of the entire process.

            Luck!
            Sean

            On 11/20/2011 9:49 AM, Jim Hart wrote: Ah... knowing the correct term will be useful in searching for solutions..... Thanks.... Nice jig.... but probably too
            big for the kind of items I'm thinking about... It would be difficult to work around it.

            On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Megan Shogren <brockenspectre@...> wrote:
             
            I'm still a newbie turner, but I gravitate toward tiny stuff like this.  That flex is called spindle whip, and it's somewhat of a given when the ratio of length to diameter gets to a certain point.  I found a home-made steady-rest; I'm sure there are other designs.


            Alternately, you'd probably be fine if you did one at a time instead of 2.  I've taken pen blanks (5-7" long) down to <1/4" diameter (making lace bobbins) without seeing any whip.  Other things that you probably already thought about: really sharp tools, really gentle hand, as light as you can go on tailstock pressure without slipping.  I like my steb center (store brand, not Sorby) in the headstock. Oddly, I find the full-size turning tools easier to use than the mini "pen-turning" tools, the bigger ones are easier to anchor to my body to keep them steady.


            -Kat Ferneley


          • conradh@efn.org
            ... I once made some bobbins for a lacemaker that were about that thin. One-at-a-time helped. I don t know if you can buy or make such a thing for a wood
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 21, 2011
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              > I have decided that I can't really turn two out of one longer piece of
              > wood
              > at the same
              > time without some type of support.... Anyone have a favorite homemade jig?
              >
              I once made some bobbins for a lacemaker that were about that thin.
              One-at-a-time helped. I don't know if you can buy or make such a thing
              for a wood lathe, but the way I would handle something like this in metal
              is to feed my rod stock through the hollow headstock (through the chuck
              from the back). That way you get the convenience of working off the end
              of a long piece of stock, and the support of head and tailstock very close
              together.

              Now you've got me thinking about how to make a hollow chuck for a
              springpole lathe! Curse you, Conal Baron! :-)

              An entirely different approach I saw in a Fine Woodworking letter, but
              haven't tried yet myself, involves grinding an old open-end mechanic's
              wrench, so that it has a cutting edge on the tip of one jaw. The idea is
              to use a wrench that's a close fit for your piece's diameter. One jaw of
              the wrench cuts while the other supports the work against tool pressure.

              Ulfhedinn
            • frode_kettilsson
              Conal, I had the same issue recently, while trying to turn tuning pegs, especially if I tried to get more than one out of a single piece. I can stabilize a
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 21, 2011
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                Conal,
                I had the same issue recently, while trying to turn tuning pegs, especially if I tried to get more than one out of a single piece.  I can stabilize a thin part somewhat, as shown here , though I would be afraid to do it on a powered lathe, and on that note, I guess I should ask, are you running electric, or foot powered?  At this point I also am taking off pretty fine shavings, too.
                Cheers,
                Frode

                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jim Hart <conalohairt@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have been playing around with my lathe...
                >
                >
                > I had a little trouble with chatter...
              • Lynda Fjellman
                The one of the Woodrights shopbooks, or was it one of the tv shows. . . has a nice wooden stablizer for making bobbins on his person powered lathe.  I don t
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 21, 2011
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                  The one of the Woodrights shopbooks, or was it one of the tv shows. . . has a nice wooden stablizer for making bobbins on his person powered lathe.  I don't see why something similar couldn't be used on an electric lathe.  You will just have to go through the books and tv shows to find the right one as I just don't remember where I saw it.  I think hulu has the tv shows available.  Might be a good way to spend the afternoon of Thanksgiving day resting up from too much turkey.
                  Ilaria


                  From: Jim Hart <conalohairt@...>
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:09 AM
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] turning small thin items

                   
                  I have been playing around with my lathe and I've made this....

                  http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r295/ConalOhAirt/001.jpg

                  It is loosely based off the one shown in the Museum of London's book The Medieval Household.


                  I had a little trouble with chatter turning something with that small of a diameter.
                  Anyone have advice? If chatter is the correct term.... The piece if flexing under the pressure
                  of the tool unless I put so little pressure I am not really making any headway...



                  I have decided that I can't really turn two out of one longer piece of wood at the same
                  time without some type of support.... Anyone have a favorite homemade jig?

                  --
                  Jim Hart
                    Conal OhAirt

                  Aude Aliquid Digmun - dare something worthy


                • Megan Shogren
                  I found a couple of neat-looking small steadies: This one reminds me of the 2-wheeled one you described:
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 21, 2011
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                    I found a couple of neat-looking small steadies:

                    This one reminds me of the 2-wheeled one you described:

                    And this one is one I think I might have to build for myself (since I have a scroll saw; and am attracted to the absurdly small and delicate):

                    -Kat Ferneley


                    From: Sean Powell <powell.sean@...>
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 12:20 PM
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] turning small thin items

                     
                    In machining steel we occasionally use steady-rests that only have 2 wheels. They are attached to the tool support and travel just ahead of the cutting tool on the base diameter so that the 3rd contact point is the cutter itself. We also take much larger bites then you might expect but with a slow feed so that the cutting tool is pushing more axial then radial. It's the radial load that causes the whip effect.

                    I would think that if you were making bobbins consistently, then after dressing the OD you could put on 2 long cylinders on the backside that touched the largest diameter and it would give you support during most of the entire process.

                    Luck!
                    Sean
                  • Avery Austringer
                    Tiny little cuts at a fast feed rate and a sharp tool are one way of dealing with this. I ve also seen people cup the object with one hand while they turn it,
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 21, 2011
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                      Tiny little cuts at a fast feed rate and a sharp tool are one way of dealing with this.  I've also seen people cup the object with one hand while they turn it, usually with a scraper held in the other, or even choke way up on the tool so that their index finger hooks over the back of the work. Obviously you go this route, you don't want to be spinning your work too fast or you'll be grinding off your fingerprints, and it goes without saying (but I'm gonna say it anyway) that getting your shirt sleeve (or your arm) into a spur head is a satisfaction with a job well done down, bloodstains up kind of thing, so depending on your setup, trying it this way may be a terrible idea.

                      Avery
                    • Jeffrey Johnson
                      I d use a saw to shorten the stock and turn them one at a time.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 23, 2011
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                        I'd use a saw to shorten the stock and turn them one at a time.
                      • Scot Eddy
                        Ran across this on Amazon. Does anyone have it? Is it any good? Grace and Peace and Turkey, Jovian Skleros
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 23, 2011
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                          Ran across this on Amazon. Does anyone have it? Is it any good?

                          Grace and Peace and Turkey,

                          Jovian Skleros
                        • Michael Sheldon
                          Can you provide a specific link? Searching on Treasure Chests on Amazon returns *hundreds* of results. Mike Sheldon
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 23, 2011
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                            Can you provide a specific link? Searching on Treasure Chests on Amazon
                            returns *hundreds* of results.

                            Mike Sheldon

                            On 11/23/2011 07:14 PM, Scot Eddy wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Ran across this on Amazon. Does anyone have it? Is it any good?
                            >
                            > Grace and Peace and Turkey,
                            >
                            > Jovian Skleros
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Scot Eddy
                            Sorry, I sent the email without checking that first. Here is the tinyURL... http://tinyurl.com/bss6twq Grace and Peace and Turkey, Jovian Skleros
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 24, 2011
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                              Sorry, I sent the email without checking that first. Here is the tinyURL...

                              http://tinyurl.com/bss6twq

                              Grace and Peace and Turkey,

                              Jovian Skleros


                              From: Michael Sheldon <msheldon@...>
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:25 AM
                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] book - Treasure Chests

                               
                              Can you provide a specific link? Searching on Treasure Chests on Amazon
                              returns *hundreds* of results.

                              Mike Sheldon

                              On 11/23/2011 07:14 PM, Scot Eddy wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Ran across this on Amazon. Does anyone have it? Is it any good?
                              >
                              > Grace and Peace and Turkey,
                              >
                              > Jovian Skleros
                              >
                              >
                              >


                            • Vels inn Viggladi
                              Published by Taunton Press: it s probably pretty okay. Vels To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com From: mister_eddy2003@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:15:22
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 24, 2011
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                                Published by Taunton Press: it's probably pretty okay.



                                Vels


                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                From: mister_eddy2003@...
                                Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:15:22 -0800
                                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] book - Treasure Chests



                                Sorry, I sent the email without checking that first. Here is the tinyURL...

                                http://tinyurl.com/bss6twq

                                Grace and Peace and Turkey,

                                Jovian Skleros


                                From: Michael Sheldon <msheldon@...>
                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:25 AM
                                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] book - Treasure Chests

                                 
                                Can you provide a specific link? Searching on Treasure Chests on Amazon
                                returns *hundreds* of results.

                                Mike Sheldon

                                On 11/23/2011 07:14 PM, Scot Eddy wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Ran across this on Amazon. Does anyone have it? Is it any good?
                                >
                                > Grace and Peace and Turkey,
                                >
                                > Jovian Skleros
                                >
                                >
                                >




                              • Peter Ellison
                                I got it from the library a while ago, so my memory is a bit fuzzy. I seen to recall the photos where stunning, a range of historical and modern chests. Peter
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 24, 2011
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                                  I got it from the library a while ago, so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

                                  I seen to recall the photos where stunning, a range of historical and modern chests.

                                  Peter

                                  > Published by Taunton Press: it's probably pretty okay.
                                  >
                                  > Vels
                                  >
                                  > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  From: mister_eddy2003@...
                                  > Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:15:22 -0800
                                  > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] book - Treasure Chests
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Sorry, I sent the email without checking that first. Here is the
                                  > tinyURL...
                                  > http://tinyurl.com/bss6twq
                                  >
                                  > Grace and Peace and Turkey,
                                  > Jovian Skleros
                                  >
                                  From: Michael Sheldon <msheldon@...>
                                  > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:25 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] book - Treasure Chests
                                  >
                                  > Can you provide a specific link? Searching on Treasure Chests on
                                  > Amazon
                                  >
                                  > returns *hundreds* of results.

                                  > Mike Sheldon

                                  > On 11/23/2011 07:14 PM, Scot Eddy wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> Ran across this on Amazon. Does anyone have it? Is it any good?
                                  >

                                  >> Grace and Peace and Turkey,
                                  >> Jovian
                                  Skleros
                                • Alex Flinsch
                                  ... It must be too early in the morning & not enough coffee -- I read that as Gravy Peas and Turkey , and thought that sounded like a good breakfast.
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 27, 2011
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                                    On Nov 24, 2011, at 3:15 AM, Scot Eddy wrote:



                                    Sorry, I sent the email without checking that first. Here is the tinyURL...


                                    Grace and Peace and Turkey,

                                    Jovian Skleros


                                    From: Michael Sheldon <msheldon@...>
                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com 
                                    Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:25 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] book - Treasure Chests

                                    Can you provide a specific link? Searching on Treasure Chests on Amazon 
                                    returns *hundreds* of results.

                                    Mike Sheldon

                                    On 11/23/2011 07:14 PM, Scot Eddy wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Ran across this on Amazon. Does anyone have it? Is it any good?
                                    >
                                    > Grace and Peace and Turkey,
                                    >


                                    It must be too early in the morning & not enough coffee -- I read that as "Gravy Peas and Turkey", and thought that sounded like a good breakfast.


                                  • Ralph
                                    Coming a little late to the discussion I have one of the OneWay steady s. It really too big for small items like bobbins, hair-sticks, etc. Some of the
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 27, 2011
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                                      Coming a little late to the discussion

                                      I have one of the OneWay steady's. It really too big for small items like bobbins, hair-sticks, etc. Some of the home-brew spindle steadys might work, but the one I would suggest is a "String Steady"

                                      That you are doing with this is using some string or thread to provide the steady pressure.

                                      A friend, that makes a lot of finials uses a very special tail-stock. It's a Jacob's chuck on a live center, with a retaining bolt treaded into the back of the Morse Taper. How you use it is, put the tail of the spindle into the Jacobs chuck and tighten down the tail-stock, then tighten the retaining bolt (obviously you need a hollow tail-stock to do this). I picked mine up from Penn State Industries, but it is also available from places like MSC-Direct.

                                      When you get your spindle down to the point where it starts flexing, reduce the tail-stock pressure and actually apply a SLIGHT tension to your spindle. You must be careful not to pull the spindle out of the drive center (a Streb doesn't work for this, due to the spring loaded drive point).

                                      Now with your spindle under no compression, you can finish final cuts on your thin spindle.

                                      A conventional drive center or bobbin center works best for this.

                                      Ralg (who just finished six BBQ fork handles, 13 seam rippers and one tool handle)
                                      AnTir
                                    • Jim Hart
                                      Any chance of getting a photo if it? ... -- Jim Hart Conal OhAirt Aude Aliquid Digmun - *dare something worthy*
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Nov 27, 2011
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                                        Any chance of getting a photo if it?

                                        On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Ralph <n7bsn@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        Coming a little late to the discussion

                                        I have one of the OneWay steady's. It really too big for small items like bobbins, hair-sticks, etc. Some of the home-brew spindle steadys might work, but the one I would suggest is a "String Steady"

                                        That you are doing with this is using some string or thread to provide the steady pressure.

                                        A friend, that makes a lot of finials uses a very special tail-stock. It's a Jacob's chuck on a live center, with a retaining bolt treaded into the back of the Morse Taper. How you use it is, put the tail of the spindle into the Jacobs chuck and tighten down the tail-stock, then tighten the retaining bolt (obviously you need a hollow tail-stock to do this). I picked mine up from Penn State Industries, but it is also available from places like MSC-Direct.

                                        When you get your spindle down to the point where it starts flexing, reduce the tail-stock pressure and actually apply a SLIGHT tension to your spindle. You must be careful not to pull the spindle out of the drive center (a Streb doesn't work for this, due to the spring loaded drive point).

                                        Now with your spindle under no compression, you can finish final cuts on your thin spindle.

                                        A conventional drive center or bobbin center works best for this.

                                        Ralg (who just finished six BBQ fork handles, 13 seam rippers and one tool handle)
                                        AnTir




                                        --
                                        Jim Hart
                                          Conal OhAirt

                                        Aude Aliquid Digmun - dare something worthy
                                      • Ralph
                                        ... Instructions on the String Steady can be found here http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/Articles/String_Steady.asp The live jacob s center can be seen at
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Nov 27, 2011
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                                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Jim Hart <conalohairt@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Any chance of getting a photo if it?
                                          >

                                          Instructions on the String Steady can be found here
                                          http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/Articles/String_Steady.asp

                                          The live jacob's center can be seen at

                                          http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LDC2MT.html

                                          Note the ball-bearing race at the back. But this is also available at many hobby metal-working places also (note, many of the cheap ones you will have to drill and tap the back of the morse-taper your self
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